Why Pass 05 and wait for 06??

[kirkyg]

i was debating about it the longest time between getting a 03,04 cobra or just wait it out for the 06 cobra, my decision was buy a daily driver and start savin for the 06 cobra(350gt) it will have around 420-430 hrsp a ford rerpesentative told me at the car show because of course ,they have too "outdoo" their last cobra he said besides the horsepower they are gonna modify a couple of other things, didnt say what, but another reason why i want the 06 cobra is its different theyres too many of the older 04 body styles and below on the road plus the new one looks classicy and different, i was deciding on leasing a 04 cobra just too hold me out untill i bought the new one but i decided getting a daily driver would be best because of the gas mileage, on the cobra it is (15road/22hwy), and the fact if a newer mustang that came out you would want the cobra that you are leasing too have the lowest mileage and stay in the nicest condition so you can get the best trade value outta it,another note you cant modify leased vehicles worth ****, plus the ford representative said they were gonna make a special edition stang each year after this body style comes out, i think buying the new gt is a waste of good money for 300 hrsp especially if you can save some more and buy the badass cobra with 420-430 hrsp, thats just my 2cents thnx

gt350? If your just talking about the 06 cobra then you'll be looking at about 500 hp. It will have the same powertrain as the lightning and the same basic setup as the gt 40 just detuned of course.

The 5.4L will be mated with a twin screw supercharger.

kirkyg

 

[mattdee1]

It doesn't matter how "important" the Mustang is to Ford, and it doesn't matter what they say in the press about how meticulous they've been to get it right the first time. There *will* be bugs with an all new car. I worked at a Ford engine plant for 3 years, and I tell you, there are so many useless people in the company that have big roles and big influence, but they're too old or too lazy to really care about the product. Even if the car and assembly process are both perfectly designed, you still have the union workers putting the vehicles together. They're almost impossible to fire, so some of them don't even care about doing their job right. All they know how to do is complain that the company doesn't give them enough. All this means that little problems at launch are inevitable.

The good news is, you don't necessarily have to wait for the next model year for something to get fixed. Little changes are always being made throughout the model year to address known issues at the assembly plant.

To be sure, most of the problems will be little things, but nonetheless annoying when buying a brand new car. On the other hand, with the Mustang, the only way Ford can go is up with fit and finish and refinement -- the new one couldn't possibly be worse on those fronts.

 

[Stangman_X]

gt350? If your just talking about the 06 cobra then you'll be looking at about 500 hp. It will have the same powertrain as the lightning and the same basic setup as the gt 40 just detuned of course.

The 5.4L will be mated with a twin screw supercharger.

kirkyg
__________________


yes 06 cobra(gt350) thats what the representative said the new cobra would be named that and again 420-430 hrsp,they wouldnt jump from a 4.6 too a 5.4 that quick and 390 too 500 hrsp, they only went from the 01 cobra 320hrsp too 03 which has 390hrsp thats just a 70 hrsp jump your talking about a 110 hrsp jump i dunno where you got your info but i got it from a ford guy at the car show plus the guy said theyd have a gt500 version which would be even more horsepower than the 06 cobra(gt350).

 

[Mach460]

Well....I'm torn...I love the 2005...but I'm dissappointed by the fact it doesn't have IRS. So I'll wait to see what Ford has in the pipeline in terms of Mustang variants....and see if Ford will offer an IRS variant other than the Cobra. Frankly....I don't want to rush out an buy a 2005 GT, then find out Ford will offer the IRS in say 2006 or 2007 for a couple grand more. Plus by tehn, my 2000 will have been fully paid off and I can do what I please with it. Otherwise...I'm very happy with my 2000 GT and my 66 Fastback.

 

[SVTdriver]

I guess I look at it a little differently. In all likelyhood. The IRS for the cobra should be able to mount to the gt. Since they are using the same chassis. So why not buy the gt. Then when the Cobra comes out (Which may apparently beas late as 07). Your gt will be at least part way paid off. And if you have been saving your money for modding it. You should be able to find an IRS and whatever else you want to put into it. In the mean time you've got a car you enjoy driving.

 

[WaltA]

Before I would become interested in IRS, Ford will need to design a much better differential. So far, I have not heard a word about any such project.

The problems Cobra owners are finding, is that the differential in use, is very noisey. Before IRS, that didn't matter since little-to-none of the noise made it into the passenger compartment. However, with IRS, the differential is directly mounted to the car, and all that noise gets directly coupled into the car.

Probably, that noise is the biggest disappointment of the much hyped IRS on the Cobras.

 

[Mach460]

Before I would become interested in IRS, Ford will need to design a much better differential. So far, I have not heard a word about any such project.

The problems Cobra owners are finding, is that the differential in use, is very noisey. Before IRS, that didn't matter since little-to-none of the noise made it into the passenger compartment. However, with IRS, the differential is directly mounted to the car, and all that noise gets directly coupled into the car.

Probably, that noise is the biggest disappointment of the much hyped IRS on the Cobras.

Seems to me people are still under the impression that any IRS that would be installed in the 05 Mustang would be a cobbled together hack job like that found in the 1999 to 2004 Cobras. That is simply not the case.

All the problems associated with the IRS in the current Cobra has to do with the fact that the it is being used in a chassis that was never meant for IRS. The S197 chassis that the 2005 Mustang rides on was designed from the onset to use IRS, not a live rear axle. Hell...it's been said that the Mustang was being designed around the IRS until management changed it to a solid axle late in the game.

So frankly....I don't think there will anywhere near the number of problems (if any) with IRS being used in the 05 Mustang. From personal experience driving the Lincoln LS8, Jaguar S-Type, and the T-Bird (all cars that use the same basic chassis as the Mustang), and I've noticed absolutely no problems (in terms of noise, etc) from the rear end.

 

[Mach460]

I guess I look at it a little differently. In all likelyhood. The IRS for the cobra should be able to mount to the gt. Since they are using the same chassis. So why not buy the gt. Then when the Cobra comes out (Which may apparently beas late as 07). Your gt will be at least part way paid off. And if you have been saving your money for modding it. You should be able to find an IRS and whatever else you want to put into it. In the mean time you've got a car you enjoy driving.

My thing is...I should be able to get it from the factory. Not have to expend time and money to do it myself...or pay big bucks to have somebody else do it. Plus...there's the reality that you'll have to either wait for somebody to crack up their Cobra to the point they junk it....or hope the aftermarket produces a kit for it. Since the aftermarket for the Mustang is geared mostly towards drag racers...I don't hold out much hope for that.

I still hold on to the faint hope that Ford will wake up and offer the IRS either as an option....or a catalog part in the FRPP catalog and have it dealer installed. Either that...or I'll wait for the Cobra and get the whole kit and caboodle.

 

[WaltA]

What chassis ended up being used?

From personal experience driving the Lincoln LS8, Jaguar S-Type, and the T-Bird (all cars that use the same basic chassis as the Mustang), ...

I remember that, initially, the S197 was going to share a "lite" version of that common basic chassis. Then there were newer rumors that the engineers just couldn't do it, and meet the required price point for an entry V6 Mustang.

Does the actually announced 2005 Mustang have that "lite" (dewy-lite??) chassis, or did it end up with its own, unique, chassis???

I thought the latest rumors of a Mercury Cougar based off the Mustang, was based on Ford needing to find another car to make use of the Mustang unique chassis in order to get a better return on that investment. No???

 

[Mach460]

I remember that, initially, the S197 was going to share a "lite" version of that common basic chassis. Then there were newer rumors that the engineers just couldn't do it, and meet the required price point for an entry V6 Mustang.

Does the actually announced 2005 Mustang have that "lite" (dewy-lite??) chassis, or did it end up with its own, unique, chassis???

I thought the latest rumors of a Mercury Cougar based off the Mustang, was based on Ford needing to find another car to make use of the Mustang unique chassis in order to get a better return on that investment. No???

Depends. If you were to believe the Ford PR speak, then you'd think it was a completely new chassis. However, from reading articles about the car and interviews, I'm led to believe that the S197 was the starting point and then modified to meets the Mustang's needs (i.e. ditching the SLA for McPherson struts). I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle...i.e. the basic architecture is DEW "Lite", but modified enough to make it unique to the Mustang (if that makes any sense).

I really hope that is the case...becuase then we'll have a chassis that was truly meant for IRS in the first place. However, if the new Mustang chassis is all new clean sheet design, then I worry. Because we'll have another situation like the current Cobra, where the IRS is a compromised design that's being to work in a chassis not designed to accept it.

We'll see. I just wished Ford had designed the Mustang to accept IRS right from the onset, at least as an option.

 

[SVTdriver]

My thing is...I should be able to get it from the factory. Not have to expend time and money to do it myself...or pay big bucks to have somebody else do it. Plus...there's the reality that you'll have to either wait for somebody to crack up their Cobra to the point they junk it....or hope the aftermarket produces a kit for it. Since the aftermarket for the Mustang is geared mostly towards drag racers...I don't hold out much hope for that.

I still hold on to the faint hope that Ford will wake up and offer the IRS either as an option....or a catalog part in the FRPP catalog and have it dealer installed. Either that...or I'll wait for the Cobra and get the whole kit and caboodle.

It probably should have been an option. But it is not as of yet. But I don't believe that it should have been standard. The reality is people want the car cheap. So Ford gave people what they wanted.

 

[Rootus]

It probably should have been an option. But it is not as of yet. But I don't believe that it should have been standard. The reality is people want the car cheap. So Ford gave people what they wanted.

I'm willing to bet that racers didn't play much, if any role in Ford's decisions concerning the '05 Mustang. The only place where any kind of racer is in significant number is online. We don't represent the average Mustang owner .

Dave

 

[WaltA]

Cobra comes out 2006, thats what im waiting for.

The current news from Ford, is their plan for only a 2007 Cobra coming out in June 2006.

 

[Rampant]

I'm willing to bet that racers didn't play much, if any role in Ford's decisions concerning the '05 Mustang. The only place where any kind of racer is in significant number is online. We don't represent the average Mustang owner .

"We talked to a lot of Mustang owners and racers when we were developing this program," says Thai-Tang (Mustang big-wig).

He is referring to car shows and events that focus on the Mustang. Since the only Mustang events/racing I know of revolve around drag racing, that is who they were talking to. Hence the "core audience" that they targeted.

The only thing that is a little dissapointing to me is that by focusing on them, they are keeping the Mustang right where it is and not attracting any new customers. They are playing it safe since the death of the competition. Hard to argue with that.

But, I also think it is going to be difficult to attract new customers. Add to that the huge new competition from $30k sports cars that weren't around before, and it is a whole new ballgame. Instead of trying to compete directly, Ford is carving its own niche and focusing squarely on that.

 

[Mach460]

"We talked to a lot of Mustang owners and racers when we were developing this program," says Thai-Tang (Mustang big-wig).

He is referring to car shows and events that focus on the Mustang. Since the only Mustang events/racing I know of revolve around drag racing, that is who they were talking to. Hence the "core audience" that they targeted.

The only thing that is a little dissapointing to me is that by focusing on them, they are keeping the Mustang right where it is and not attracting any new customers. They are playing it safe since the death of the competition. Hard to argue with that.

But, I also think it is going to be difficult to attract new customers. Add to that the huge new competition from $30k sports cars that weren't around before, and it is a whole new ballgame. Instead of trying to compete directly, Ford is carving its own niche and focusing squarely on that.

Exactly. That's a point I've been trying to make for the last 6 months.

A lot of you may discount import buyers and cars like the Nissan 350Z etc....but those are the cars that are competing for the same buyers the Mustang is. Ford can't rely on it's core audience forever.

 

[SVTdriver]

While it is true that they went to events that were primarily drag racing. Did you go to them? How many letters have you written to Ford about the IRS issue? I would say that there is quite a large core audience. Since it now has it's own drag racing series. And while that may not be enough to survive for another 40 years. The new mustang is still attracting people who want a mustang. Personally I love mustangs. I checked outa 350z and to me. It simply does not measure up. And since noone knows how well or poorly the redesigned suspension will work. It seems a little early to be complaining about it's handling. And saying it will fall behind the competition. And the concept GTR should help prove that the mustang is not just a drag racing car.

 

[Rampant]

Ford can't rely on it's core audience forever.

Also, not to put to harsh a light on it, Ford's "core audience" is after the big, burly, draggin' muscle car. However, the vast majority of its sales are V6. These people are after cheap, fun to drive cars. I am afraid a good portion of this audience is going to be won over by the competition, and thus make it even more difficult for Ford to keep the prices down--which makes it a vicious cycle.

The other thing is, I don't know how long the retro thing is going to last. While it is great for cars like the Ford GT and even the T-bird, where the boomers who coveted that car for so long can now finally afford it, the younger generation of buyers doesn't have the same emotional connection, nor the nostalgia. Granted, those with a connection to the Mustang can obviously appreciate its lineage, but how much of a majority is that?

Back to the topic at hand....why wait, and not get an '05? As I see it, if the Mustang doesn't sell as well as they expect it (and expcetations are high), Ford will have to do something to bring the people into the showrooms. That means variants (GT350, et al) at (most likely) exceptionally good values.

I say, wait if you can to see how it all plays out.


SVTDriver - I think we are all in agreement here that the Mustang is an incredible car and much better than the competition. But, then again, we are on a Mustang board and all appreciate its virtues. I don't think anyone here is saying the Mustang is an inferior car.

All I am saying is it is a misnomer that the Mustang has no competition since the death of the Camero/Firebird. The fact remains there is very stiff competition, for the largest portion of Mustang buyers. We start to loose those, and all the Mustangs versions suffer (lower volume=higher prices). This is what will keep Ford making better cars more cheaply. That is advantageous for all of us.

 

[SVTdriver]

Also, not to put to harsh a light on it, Ford's "core audience" is after the big, burly, draggin' muscle car. However, the vast majority of its sales are V6. These people are after cheap, fun to drive cars. I am afraid a good portion of this audience is going to be won over by the competition, and thus make it even more difficult for Ford to keep the prices down--which makes it a vicious cycle.

True that the majority of sales are V6. But what other competition is there for the V6 stang? That are really close in price and power?

 

[Rampant]

True that the majority of sales are V6. But what other competition is there for the V6 stang? That are really close in price and power?

I guess it depends on what you would consider competition. On the datasheet, probably not many. In the consumers minds, probably a lot more when ride and interior quality rank in higher priority than 200hp and RWD. There are a lot of new cars coming out to target this cheap, yet fun to drive target -- the Cobalt, the Mazda 3, ION redline and Scions ultra-cheap coupe, than you add SRT-4, Mini Cooper, RSX, GTI, Celica, Civic, Eclipse, SE-R, Stratus Coupe, even the Tiburon.

In this mix, there is something for everyone. But, it is the V8 Mustang that is getting the most new (and stiffest) competition that it never had to worry about in the past. This is what is keeping the pricing low and the performance high, while the V6 is keeping profits up.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new Mustang and am saving to buy one. But, I am even more excited that the competition will keep Ford motivated to give us better cars for cheaper.

 

[scottie1113]

I'm going to wait until at least 2006 for several reasons. I've only got 64,000 miles on my 95 Vert and it runs fine. I want a new coupe in Dark Highland Green and it won't be available on the 2005. By 2006 IRS may be an option and I really would like that. Last, but not that important, maybe by 2006 the slapshift auto like in the Lincoln will be available.

Oh, and by then some of the initial buying frenzy will have died down and I expect to be able to get a better deal.