Will timing effect engine temp?

[65fastbackresto]

I`m at 12 degrees base, 33 total all in at 3000 rpm`s (I need to double check these), but anyway, I just got done installing a new Griffin 3 inch thick aluminum radiator, and it heats up if I flog it. Just cruising around its fine, between 185 and 195 back and forth, but I can flog it for as little as 5 seconds, and it shoots up to 220 and took 3 to 5 minutes to cool back down yesterday.

I`m ordering a new high volume, or so they say, thermastat today, hoping that will help, but I`m really getting peeved about this heating issue. I`ve got the shroud and everything should be fine, there is a spring in the bottom hose so thats not it.

If this issue is stemming from the lack of steam holes in my block to match my Edelbrock heads I`m am gonna give my builder a hard time over this.........

Any ideas anyone?

 

[truck90278]

Yes, timing can effect an engine overheating, however if it wasnt overheating before the radiator change, then i would not suspect the timing. Do you have a fan shroud ?

 

[65fastbackresto]

Its overheated since first startup.

Yea its got a shroud. This motor has maybe 5 or 6 hours run time on it since installed last september, its done this since first startup. In attempt to fix it I`ve added a 6 blade flex o lite fan (supposedly 3500 cfm air flow, that was on someone on this website recommendation). It overheats at idle and when i flog it, I can rev the motor up to 2000 rpm or so sitting still and it cools back down slowly.

 

[D.Hearne]

You need to give it more run time to break in. Timing does affect the temps, but from what you've descibed, it's doing just fine. 220 is NOT hot. And it's cooling back down after you give it the works. Put another 5000 miles on it and you'll see it run cooler. It needs more time to loosen up the clearances, once that's done, it'll run cooler.

 

[65fastbackresto]

So my timing sounds ok I take it?

Danny, you know I know next to nothing bout this stuff, gimmee some ideas please?

 

[65fastbackresto]

I`m getting really frustrated now.

I made sure the rad was full of water, drove it less then 1 mile and it was up to 220, came back home, took about 3 minutes to get it to cool down to 200, taching between 2000 and 3000 to get the fan moving.

I`m at a lose, I dont know what to do, I`ve got $5000 tied up in a motor i cant even drive around the block pretty much.

 

[65fastbackresto]

bump

bump it

 

[Fast63]

No need to bump your thread less than 2 hours after your last post dude.

Also, I think you should have paid more attention when D.Hearne said 220 is not that hot.

Will it overheat? What happens if you get on it for 15 seconds? What happens if it idles for 15 minutes?

Don't waste your money getting another thermostat, it's working fine.

Really low timing can cause excessive heat, but we're talking like 0 degrees initial and 15 total. Or excessive timing where you are pinging. if you are 12 initial 33 total, you are in the normal range.

Bottom line, why are you freaking out? How can you expect a system to maintain a specific temperature when you get on it and introduce a whole bunch of heat?

 

[65fastbackresto]

I`m just mad is all.

Man I have put my heart and soul into this car in the last year, tons of money and effort. Many hours by myself working on stuff people will never even see, just cause I know it`ll be right and last me the rest of my life. Every last part on this car is new, with few exceptions, and it aint dependable enough for me to even cruise around in without worrying its gonna blow up of something. I`m totally disgusted with the entire deal now.

But to answer your questions.

Will it overheat? What happens if you get on it for 15 seconds? What happens if it idles for 15 minutes?

I cant get on it for 15 seconds, cause in less then 5. it heats to 220, although a 15 second or better flogging is in this motors near future I am sure one way or another. As far as idling, it did good earlier today when it was cooler outside, now it just keeps creaping up past 210.

And today when I drove it and it hit 220, I wasn`t even a mile from my house when I did it, and I hadn`t flogged it at all, I live in town. Something is wrong with this motor and I cant figure out what it is.

I love my car, but there would have to be a car show within 1 mile of my house for me to drive my car to it, and that aint right considering the effort I`ve put into this.

 

[Edster]

Has your radiator puked yet?
Do you have vacuum advance, if so is it adjusted properly? Is the hose hooked up to the right port?
220 is not that hot.
5-6 hours run time is like a brand new motor it will run a little hot (as mentioned before). I wouldn't worry about it unless it pukes all the time. Keep an eye on the oil level and change it if you haven't yet. Is your tranny cooler separate from the radiator, if not you may think about getting an external cooler and placing away from the radiator. Are you running A/C? If so that may be part of the problem at least until the engine is broke in.
I hope this helps

 

[bnickel]

33 degrees total is a little low, you should be up between 36-40 depending on compression ratio. also the carb could be running lean casuing the hot running condition. i would call Edelbrock and ask them about the steam hole issue. i do know that some of the early heads didn't come with the steam holes drilled but they all do now and IIRC it was on early blocks that the steam holes were needed.

if you are just starting the car up and driving a mile with no warmup then yeah something ain't right there. it takes my 351w at least 5 minutes in warm weather to get up to operating temp.

go ahead and install the new thermostat and check the rotation on your water pump to make sure you aren't pumping the water backwards. also break down your exact combo for me in detail, cam specs, intake, headers or manifolds, pulley system and what accessories you're running, what year motor and accessory drive system, what year was the water pump for and which side the lower hose is on, also what year is the timing cover from. get that and get back to me and let me know those things

 

[65fastbackresto]

To answer Edsters questions

Has your radiator puked yet?
Do you have vacuum advance, if so is it adjusted properly? Is the hose hooked up to the right port?
220 is not that hot.
5-6 hours run time is like a brand new motor it will run a little hot (as mentioned before). I wouldn't worry about it unless it pukes all the time. Keep an eye on the oil level and change it if you haven't yet. Is your tranny cooler separate from the radiator, if not you may think about getting an external cooler and placing away from the radiator. Are you running A/C? If so that may be part of the problem at least until the engine is broke in.
I hope this helps

Its not vacuum advance, its a MSD billet centrifigual advance dizzy with one light spring and one heavy spring, I wish I had went vacuum now, but too late.

Yea it was puking a little yesterday, when I opened the hood it had puked on the drivers side of the car pretty good, maybe a cup full, nothing major though.

The tranny cooler is in the radiator, but I didnt drive it far enough yesterday to generate any heat, unless it heats sitting there idling.

I am in the process of installing an ac unit, but the compressor isn`t mounted yet so there is not any more load on the motor yet.

 

[classic boost]

check your plugs to see if you're running lean.

 

[65fastbackresto]

To answer bnickels questions

33 degrees total is a little low, you should be up between 36-40 depending on compression ratio. also the carb could be running lean casuing the hot running condition. i would call Edelbrock and ask them about the steam hole issue. i do know that some of the early heads didn't come with the steam holes drilled but they all do now and IIRC it was on early blocks that the steam holes were needed.

if you are just starting the car up and driving a mile with no warmup then yeah something ain't right there. it takes my 351w at least 5 minutes in warm weather to get up to operating temp.

go ahead and install the new thermostat and check the rotation on your water pump to make sure you aren't pumping the water backwards. also break down your exact combo for me in detail, cam specs, intake, headers or manifolds, pulley system and what accessories you're running, what year motor and accessory drive system, what year was the water pump for and which side the lower hose is on, also what year is the timing cover from. get that and get back to me and let me know those things

I`m at 12 degrees base, how high should I set the base, 15 maybe?

I`ve already got an email out to Edelbrock about repercusions of not drilling the steam hole, waiting for a reply now.

How do I check the water pump rotation? I assume pull top hose off and crank it over to see if it pumps out?

If I`m running lean on the carb how would I know? Do I set that with the fuel air mix screws? I thought those were idle only settings....

Headers are Patriot ceramic coated try y design

Motor specs, 302 bored .030 over, hypertech 10 to 1 comp pistons
Cam is just under 500 lift, and like 220 duration (these are close not perfect)
Water pump is stock and everything on front of motor is how it came from salvage yard where we got the motor, it was sitting in a 78 bronco, but I`m not sure if thats what it came in originally.

I think everything else is on my sig.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Drove it again today.

A buddy of mine told me to back the timing off to 8 degrees to see if it would help, and it did. It didnt heat up until about 10 minutes into a drive, then it started a slow but steady climb toward 220 again. I`m thinking the tranny is doing it now, not sure though. I`ve had hell with the tranny, it has leaked since the first day it was intalled.