I plan on building a 351w stroker in the near future and would like to know if the twisted wedge heads will work. I plan on supercharging it. I know they will bolt up if u elongate the holes to 1/2'' but not sure if they will flow enough even with them ported. I plan on it bein a 408 with pushing a decent amount of boost.
Will Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads work?
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Daniel50
New Member
HardmanGT
Founding Member
The Twisted Wedges heads are good, but that is based on a 302. Witht that 408 plan on something that will flow much more than they will. AFR 205 or 225 would be my choice
bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
Right here!
Im runing a 408 with TEA ported TFS Track Heats heads.It makes awsome power and torque.
They would make great blower heads and are excellant turbo heads.My set-up now is a higher compression (11.5-12:1) nitrous set-up,and the heads work perfectly.Oh,I run a Hyd. roller cam,with biggger valves (mine are 2.02/1.60) and springs you can run a solid roller and they would be wild.
Im runing a 408 with TEA ported TFS Track Heats heads.It makes awsome power and torque.
They would make great blower heads and are excellant turbo heads.My set-up now is a higher compression (11.5-12:1) nitrous set-up,and the heads work perfectly.Oh,I run a Hyd. roller cam,with biggger valves (mine are 2.02/1.60) and springs you can run a solid roller and they would be wild.
QDRHRSE
New Member
TFS TW's will work great. They have the most efficient combustion chamber of any head sold. I think that they are the best head available. On a 408 I would recommend getting the ported ones or the R's. Although they are a nice head, I don't really care for AFR's. I've used both the TFS and the AFR's and I have always run better with the twisted wedge heads. I actually spoke to Rick Anderson once on the phone and he's the one that explained to me why the Teisted Wedge is a better choice than an AFR. He didn't knock the AFR's....he just said they a require a little more effort to make them work well. Just my $.02 .
twisted wedge heads will work, they should already have the 1/2 inch headbolt holes and the cnc'd heads will work better for the price...
R heads flow well even out of the box but require pistons and headers becuase of port location and also valve angles they may also require shaft rockers not sure on that though
AFR heads are far better then trickflow especially the 205 or the 225 heads they are in a class above a better comparison would be the 185's but even those work better, the advantage for trickflow is for class specific stuff for racing that dont allow porting like real street in the NMRA. for a 351 based stroker the 205 or 225 is cheaper then what the cost would be to get a tw head close in performance to either plus AFR gives you an exhaust port options.... for bolt on performance for around 2k the 225 will out perform the cnc'd Tw head
R heads flow well even out of the box but require pistons and headers becuase of port location and also valve angles they may also require shaft rockers not sure on that though
AFR heads are far better then trickflow especially the 205 or the 225 heads they are in a class above a better comparison would be the 185's but even those work better, the advantage for trickflow is for class specific stuff for racing that dont allow porting like real street in the NMRA. for a 351 based stroker the 205 or 225 is cheaper then what the cost would be to get a tw head close in performance to either plus AFR gives you an exhaust port options.... for bolt on performance for around 2k the 225 will out perform the cnc'd Tw head
$uperstang
New Member
Get the AFR's trust me I went through the whole thing when I built my motor and AFR's are better. For your set up go with the 225 AFR's
All answers here have been opinions?
Can someone post some flow numbers for TrickFlows and AFR's?
Flow numbers are not directly linked to hp, but flow numbers should be easier to find than side by side dyno comparisons.
I am running the 408w in my sig with gasket matched TW heads. Even though I am still having vac leak/oil control issues the power is great. Exactly what I expected. Then again, maybe I would be better off with AFR's?
The reason I went with TW heads was that the chambers are twisted. This allows for better breathing through the valves at a given lift and valve diameter. It also helps to create better swirl characteristics inside the cyl. Because the swirl effect will not be seen in flow tests, TW heads are better than their flow numbers will indicate.
edit:
I should add that my combo is set up for boost, 9-12lbs worth if I get my way.
Can someone post some flow numbers for TrickFlows and AFR's?
Flow numbers are not directly linked to hp, but flow numbers should be easier to find than side by side dyno comparisons.
I am running the 408w in my sig with gasket matched TW heads. Even though I am still having vac leak/oil control issues the power is great. Exactly what I expected. Then again, maybe I would be better off with AFR's?
The reason I went with TW heads was that the chambers are twisted. This allows for better breathing through the valves at a given lift and valve diameter. It also helps to create better swirl characteristics inside the cyl. Because the swirl effect will not be seen in flow tests, TW heads are better than their flow numbers will indicate.
edit:
I should add that my combo is set up for boost, 9-12lbs worth if I get my way.
QDRHRSE
New Member
Lift 0.5 0.55 0.6
AFR 185 267,185 273,190 277,191
AFR 205 291,225 306,231
AFR 225 268,242 307,250
TFS TW 251,187 251,193
TFS R 275,200 296,212
This is a biased comparison because the TFS heads are all unported. The TFS R heads are meant to be ported and they do not list the flow #'s for the new CNC'd versions online. Although you can port them more, an AFR is a CNC ported head. The twisted wedge is between an AFR 165 and 185 in runner volume. Hope my quickie chart helps.
AFR 185 267,185 273,190 277,191
AFR 205 291,225 306,231
AFR 225 268,242 307,250
TFS TW 251,187 251,193
TFS R 275,200 296,212
This is a biased comparison because the TFS heads are all unported. The TFS R heads are meant to be ported and they do not list the flow #'s for the new CNC'd versions online. Although you can port them more, an AFR is a CNC ported head. The twisted wedge is between an AFR 165 and 185 in runner volume. Hope my quickie chart helps.
QDRHRSE
New Member
oops. That didn't come out as nice as I would have liked. only the AFR 185's have #'s @ .550. The rest are @ .500 and .600
bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
QDRHRSE said:
Ill make a chart.I made this exact comparo befor...
I sereached ut nothing on the TFS vs. AFR thread.Maybe it whent down thiw the crash...
bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
TFS "Twisted Wedge" (Standard/Emissions Legal)
170cc Intake/66cc Exhaust
Lift Value: Intake Flow: (CFM) Exhaust Flow: (CFM)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100" 63 53
0.200" 141 107
0.300" 205 144
0.400" 233 171
0.500" 251 187
0.600" 251 193
TFS "Track Heat" (Twisted Wedge,non EGR,non Emission)
170cc Intake/66cc Exhaust
Lift Value: Intake Flow(CFM): Exhaust Flow(CFM):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100 63 53
0.200 141 107
0.300 205 144
0.400 233 171
0.500 251 187
0.600 251 193
TFS "Street Heat" (High-Port,Emissions Legal)
192ccIntake/87cc Exhaust
Lift Value: Intake Flow: (CFM) Exhaust Flow: (CFM)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100" 67 55
0.200" 133 103
0.300" 186 138
0.400" 230 166
0.500" 257 183
0.600" 267 193
TFS "Twisted Wedge R" (Raised exhaust port,R-Specific header,non Emissions)
206ccIntake/96cc Exhaust
Lift Value: Intake Flow(CFM): Exhaust Flow(CFM):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100 68 50
0.200 147 102
0.300 205 146
0.400 242 178
0.500 275 200
0.600 296 212
0.700 305 222
Notes:All TFS heads,excluding "Twisted Wedge R",use 2.02 Intake and 1.60 Exhaust valves.
Standard TFS Twisted Wedge springs are good up to .540" lift Hyd. roller,
Track Heat and Street Heat are good to .600" lift with Hyd. roller cam,
TFS "R" heads are good to .700" lift with solid cam
All TFS head test Conducted at 28" of water (pressure)
______________________________________________________________________
170cc Intake/66cc Exhaust
Lift Value: Intake Flow: (CFM) Exhaust Flow: (CFM)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100" 63 53
0.200" 141 107
0.300" 205 144
0.400" 233 171
0.500" 251 187
0.600" 251 193
TFS "Track Heat" (Twisted Wedge,non EGR,non Emission)
170cc Intake/66cc Exhaust
Lift Value: Intake Flow(CFM): Exhaust Flow(CFM):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100 63 53
0.200 141 107
0.300 205 144
0.400 233 171
0.500 251 187
0.600 251 193
TFS "Street Heat" (High-Port,Emissions Legal)
192ccIntake/87cc Exhaust
Lift Value: Intake Flow: (CFM) Exhaust Flow: (CFM)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100" 67 55
0.200" 133 103
0.300" 186 138
0.400" 230 166
0.500" 257 183
0.600" 267 193
TFS "Twisted Wedge R" (Raised exhaust port,R-Specific header,non Emissions)
206ccIntake/96cc Exhaust
Lift Value: Intake Flow(CFM): Exhaust Flow(CFM):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100 68 50
0.200 147 102
0.300 205 146
0.400 242 178
0.500 275 200
0.600 296 212
0.700 305 222
Notes:All TFS heads,excluding "Twisted Wedge R",use 2.02 Intake and 1.60 Exhaust valves.
Standard TFS Twisted Wedge springs are good up to .540" lift Hyd. roller,
Track Heat and Street Heat are good to .600" lift with Hyd. roller cam,
TFS "R" heads are good to .700" lift with solid cam
All TFS head test Conducted at 28" of water (pressure)
______________________________________________________________________
bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
AFR 185cc Emission Legal heads
(185ccIntake/69cc Exhaust,2.02Intake/1.60 Exhaust)
Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)
.100" N/A N/A
.200" 129 118
.300" 189 153
.400" 234 178
.500" 267 185
.600" 277 191
AFR Note: exhuast w/ 1 3/4 pipe,bore size 4.060
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFR 185cc Non-Emission heads
(185ccIntake/69cc Exhaust,2.02Intake/1.60 Exhaust)
Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)
.100" N/A N/A
.200" 129 118
.300" 189 153
.400" 234 178
.500" 267 185
.600" 277 191
AFR note: exhuast w/ 1 3/4 pipe,bore size 4.060
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFR 205cc (non-Emissions)
(205ccIntake/70cc raised exhaust,2.08Intake/1.60 Exhaust)
Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)
.100" N/A N/A
.200" 141 125
.300" 201 180
.400" 251 211
.500" 291 225
.600" 301 228
.700" 310 235
AFR Note: exhaust w/ 1 7/8 pipe,bore size 4.125
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFR 225cc (non-Emissions)
(225ccIntake/80cc .375 raised exhaust,2.08Intake/1.60 exhaust)
Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)
.100" N/A N/A
.200" 143 130
.300" 211 190
.400" 260 230
.500" 289 242
.600" 307 250
.700" 317 255
AFR Note: exhaust w/ 1 7/8 pipe,bore size 4.125
AFR did not state at how many inch's of water (pressure) they tested with.
______________________________________________________________________
This information was taken from Trick Flow Specialties and
Air Flow Research respected web sites:
www.trickflow.com
www.airflowresearch.com
_____________________________________________________________________
(185ccIntake/69cc Exhaust,2.02Intake/1.60 Exhaust)
Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)
.100" N/A N/A
.200" 129 118
.300" 189 153
.400" 234 178
.500" 267 185
.600" 277 191
AFR Note: exhuast w/ 1 3/4 pipe,bore size 4.060
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFR 185cc Non-Emission heads
(185ccIntake/69cc Exhaust,2.02Intake/1.60 Exhaust)
Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)
.100" N/A N/A
.200" 129 118
.300" 189 153
.400" 234 178
.500" 267 185
.600" 277 191
AFR note: exhuast w/ 1 3/4 pipe,bore size 4.060
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFR 205cc (non-Emissions)
(205ccIntake/70cc raised exhaust,2.08Intake/1.60 Exhaust)
Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)
.100" N/A N/A
.200" 141 125
.300" 201 180
.400" 251 211
.500" 291 225
.600" 301 228
.700" 310 235
AFR Note: exhaust w/ 1 7/8 pipe,bore size 4.125
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFR 225cc (non-Emissions)
(225ccIntake/80cc .375 raised exhaust,2.08Intake/1.60 exhaust)
Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)
.100" N/A N/A
.200" 143 130
.300" 211 190
.400" 260 230
.500" 289 242
.600" 307 250
.700" 317 255
AFR Note: exhaust w/ 1 7/8 pipe,bore size 4.125
AFR did not state at how many inch's of water (pressure) they tested with.
______________________________________________________________________
This information was taken from Trick Flow Specialties and
Air Flow Research respected web sites:
www.trickflow.com
www.airflowresearch.com
_____________________________________________________________________
bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
TEA Ported TFS "Twisted Wedge/Track Heat" heads
TW 185
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 72 58
.200" 142 114
.300" 215 152
.400" 259 189
.500" 287 220
.550" 296 229
.600" 300 234
____________________________________________________________________
TW 205
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 71 58
.200" 143 114
.300" 221 152
.400" 271 189
.500" 301 220
.550" 308 229
.600" 315 234
____________________________________________________________________
TW 205 "Renegade"
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 57 53
.200" 149 111
.300" 228 155
.400" 283 203
.500" 314 228
.550" 320 233
.600" 325 240
_____________________________________________________________________
TEA Ported TFS "High Ports (a.k.a "Street Heats")
Hi Port 218
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 72 58
.200" 144 117
.300" 205 162
.400" 261 203
.500" 295 229
.550" 307 232
.600" 316 236
.700" 332 241
_____________________________________________________________________
Hi Port 230
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 75 58
.200" 148 117
.300" 216 162
.400" 267 203
.500" 292 229
.550" 304 235
.600" 313 241
.700" 335 252
NOTE: Information taken from www.totalengineairflow.com
TW 185
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 72 58
.200" 142 114
.300" 215 152
.400" 259 189
.500" 287 220
.550" 296 229
.600" 300 234
____________________________________________________________________
TW 205
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 71 58
.200" 143 114
.300" 221 152
.400" 271 189
.500" 301 220
.550" 308 229
.600" 315 234
____________________________________________________________________
TW 205 "Renegade"
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 57 53
.200" 149 111
.300" 228 155
.400" 283 203
.500" 314 228
.550" 320 233
.600" 325 240
_____________________________________________________________________
TEA Ported TFS "High Ports (a.k.a "Street Heats")
Hi Port 218
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 72 58
.200" 144 117
.300" 205 162
.400" 261 203
.500" 295 229
.550" 307 232
.600" 316 236
.700" 332 241
_____________________________________________________________________
Hi Port 230
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100" 75 58
.200" 148 117
.300" 216 162
.400" 267 203
.500" 292 229
.550" 304 235
.600" 313 241
.700" 335 252
NOTE: Information taken from www.totalengineairflow.com
bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
I run TEA 205cc Track Heats on min,I love them.But the AFR 225 was also a good choise,I just happened to have the un-ported Track Heat to send in from the previous 357.
payupsucka
Member
brodix track 1 heads muscle mustangs did a 408 build up and thats what they used motor put close to 700 with those heads
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