wont idle with sc on

luckythirteen13 · Sep 16, 2005

wont idle with sc on *update: its running, damn C&L*

i put my supercharger in. took me 4 days of off and on working on it to put the whole kit in. its a vortech s-trim with a 3" pulley on the blower. i have an fmu that is hooked up correctly. i called vortech and their tech people are dumb as ph**k. all they could tell me is that i have a vacuum leak. i went over every vac line that is vissible, none are loose or leaking. all the sensors are hooked up. i put the kit in and started it. the first time i started it it ran. a little ruff but not horrible. i shut it off and shut the battery off with the kill switch. i then adjusted the intake tube and turned the battery back on. tried to start it and it wont run. it surges to 1100 then drops way down below 500. it will surge back up, then go way back down. back and forth for about 4 times then just die. i have autolites in set at .035" i have msd everything for ignition. i didnt touch the fuel system when installing the kit other then putting the fmu in. i have a 255lph fuel pump that was in there months before the kit went in. the car ran perfect right before the install. they suggested i take the belt off the blower to see if that would help. no difference. then to rule the sc out completely, i put the normal intake tube on the tb, then put the maf on that. with no air filter on at all, i tried to start it again and again it was the exact same result so its not the sc cause as far as the car knows, the sc isnt even there. the belt isnt hooked up and the hose coming from it is removed. im stumped, help me!! the car wont even run N/A i got the kit off ebay (new) and i talked to the guy i bought it from. hes has tried to help. he has a few sc'd cars including a kb mustang and he is stumped as well. i agree with him and vortech that it sounds like a vac leak but i went over every line in the engine compartment.

Daggar · Sep 16, 2005

Just for giggles.... try running the car both with the massa ir meter connected and then disconnected. Let us know if there was any affect.

RacEoHolic330 · Sep 16, 2005

whats your fuel pressure set at? What size injectors and what ratio fmu?

luckythirteen13 · Sep 16, 2005

i tried disconnecting the maf and that did nothing. im running 24# injectors and an 8:1 ratio fmu. fuel pressure is about 40psi.

shttygtstang · Sep 16, 2005

unplug you aic and set your idle manauly ... good luck

88_GT_5_oh · Sep 16, 2005

shttygtstang said:
unplug you aic and set your idle manauly ... good luck

i had to do this with my new combo this year. set the idle withthe throttle stop, then shut the car off and reset the TPS. solved everything, but what made it idle the best was a dyno tune..... go figure

luckythirteen13 · Sep 16, 2005

but that doesnt explain why i cant get it to run n/a either

88_GT_5_oh · Sep 16, 2005

just out of curiosity is the mass air calibrated for the 24 lb injectors? also what kind of mass air meter?

luckythirteen13 · Sep 17, 2005

C&L maf and it is calibrated for 24# injectors. i dont even have an air filter on the car right now so it cant be that the maf is getting turbulant air or anything like that. im getting a mulimeter today so ill be checking the tps

just4bob50 · Sep 17, 2005

Your air filter will actually smooth out the air flow to your meter. C&L's are very sensitive to turbulance. My brother got rid of his becuase of that. Also my friend who has a SC cobra kit car spun his C&L meter from 12 oclock to 2 oclock and his car idled good enough to drive it for a few weeks till he had it tuned. The C&L tech told him it was because of the 90* bend in the inlet prior to the meter. By coincidence both of the meter's were 76mm calibrated for 24 lb. injectors. My brother bought a PRO-M 77 and my friends tuner hates C&L. Dont know if any of this will help, but maybe.

Daggar · Sep 17, 2005

luckythirteen13 said:
i tried disconnecting the maf and that did nothing. im running 24# injectors and an 8:1 ratio fmu. fuel pressure is about 40psi.

Hey all... I think you guys might have missed this.

If the MAF was disconnected and it did nothing (made no changes in the current condition) then it stands to reason that the meter is bad or that there is a problem in the wiring from the meter to the EEC. Disconnecting the EEC (if the meter is working) should have made the condition worse. If it didn't then then the problem likely lies with the meter.

88_GT_5_oh · Sep 17, 2005

ya.. gotta be the meter....

on turbo mustangs tons of guys use c&l meters as blow thru's, c&l say to provide at least 8 inches of straight pipe before the meter for it to work the best. sooooo if your meter is right after a bend try and put it somewhere else. but like daggar said, make sure its actually working first. also if it is bad electronics you can go tot the junk yard and grab electronics off a 3.8 taurus.

fiveohwblow · Sep 17, 2005

just4bob50 said:
Your air filter will actually smooth out the air flow to your meter. C&L's are very sensitive to turbulance. My brother got rid of his becuase of that. Also my friend who has a SC cobra kit car spun his C&L meter from 12 oclock to 2 oclock and his car idled good enough to drive it for a few weeks till he had it tuned. The C&L tech told him it was because of the 90* bend in the inlet prior to the meter. By coincidence both of the meter's were 76mm calibrated for 24 lb. injectors. My brother bought a PRO-M 77 and my friends tuner hates C&L. Dont know if any of this will help, but maybe.

C&L uses all stock electronics, and all the meter is is a sampling tube and a larger airflow path. Do you mean that the stock electronics are sensetive?

shttygtstang · Sep 17, 2005

ide say worrie abought one thing at a time and all else will folow .I wouldnt try to get it to idle right with the sc on or the new injectors and maf start over .I know thats some ****ty advice but take it from some one who had a ****ty car.Some times you must start over and try again
Did you didsturb timing while installing your new goodies . I see you have a cobra intake thats the only reason i ask.If so verifie timing n the money.

luckythirteen13 · Sep 17, 2005

i never touched the fuel or timing when doing the install. i do have a tune mounted right to the maf so ill pull that off and see what happenes. as it is though i already went over the tps and its perfect. the injectors, pump, maf, manifold, timing, etc are all the same from before i got the blower. if taking the tube off the maf doesnt work im going to the dyno tuners. ive about given up. i talked to swanson's performance near my house and told them ill tow it in on monday. thank God for AAA and free towing

luckythirteen13 · Sep 18, 2005

can you even use a C&L on a sc engine? all the stuff on their web site talks about n/a motors but nothing about sc. i cant see it making a difference since the maf is before the sc so the maf should just think that the air being pulled in by the sc is just being pulled in by the motor, right?

luckythirteen13 · Sep 18, 2005

ITS ALIVE!!! as a last ditch effort before towing it to the tuners (how pathetic) i tried one more time to make it run. the car sat with the battery off over night. i rechecked the tps. n/a i ran the 76mm C&L maf and 76mm intake tube. with the sc i tried to use the intake tune as an extender to the maf so i could put the air filter closer to the ground. inother words, i had the tube before the maf then two 90* bends into the sc. i pulled the intake tube off the front of the maf and put on a piece of 3" pvc pipe that was about one foot long. cranked the motor and it ran perfect but the idle was a little high. i left it running and looked under the hood. the maf wasnt hooked up. i shut the car off and hooked it up. the idle smoothed out a bit and dropped to about 900rpm. ill have to adjust the idle speed later. im making about 7lbs of boost. not sure i just happened to glance over at it right before i stopped. i dont have an air filter on so ill probably loose a pound of boost when i put one on. im running a 3" pulley on the sc. i have a smaller one but its a lot smaller so im afraid it will make too much boost. it pulls hard but im sure with a dyno tune it will pull harder

fiveohwblow · Sep 22, 2005

luckythirteen13 said:
can you even use a C&L on a sc engine? all the stuff on their web site talks about n/a motors but nothing about sc. i cant see it making a difference since the maf is before the sc so the maf should just think that the air being pulled in by the sc is just being pulled in by the motor, right?

If you go to vortech, you will see the only meter they sell is a C&L. That is why I got mine for my SC combo, because I assume that they would not lead me astray...

wht93gtEd · Sep 22, 2005

fiveohwblow said:
If you go to vortech, you will see the only meter they sell is a C&L. That is why I got mine for my SC combo, because I assume that they would not lead me astray...

vortech probably owns them or something like that

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