Z06 vs GT500 (rant)

05MGT · Nov 19, 2005

Ok so the GT500 is a warmed up GT. That makes the Z06 a warmed up C6. That makes the Porsche GT3 a warmed up 911 Turbo. That makes.....

Every "special edition" or "performance edition" car is just a warmed up version of the base car. So what? Aside from looks, each of those cars drives and acts completely different than the base model it's based off of.

Dyoct · Nov 19, 2005

Man I hope those canucks didn't take more than two deposits...otherwise they're going to be up the creek...

PS...heard "$39,490" USD on Friday

SVT32VDOHC · Nov 21, 2005

I rode in a new Z06 and it was very fast. That 427 really pulls in high RPM, and off a 60 roll...look out:Teh-Win: The exhaust is quiet and then the exhaust opens electronically, so it is open headers, and it is loud. It will be a close race for the GT500, HOWEVER, change exhaust, pulley, look out. When FORD makes a whipple or you strap a KB on their..LOOK THE **** OUT!!!! Gotta love the mustang!!!

PonyboyIsaac · Nov 23, 2005

SVT32VDOHC said:
... HOWEVER, change exhaust, pulley, look out. When FORD makes a whipple or you strap a KB on their..LOOK THE **** OUT!!!! Gotta love the mustang!!!

Amen

1994Vobra · Dec 6, 2005

I rode in a new Z06 and it was very fast. That 427 really pulls in high RPM, and off a 60 roll...look out The exhaust is quiet and then the exhaust opens electronically, so it is open headers, and it is loud. It will be a close race for the GT500,

I hate to rain on anyone's Shelby party but the Gt500 will not be a "close race" for an 06 ZO6.. Not anywhere near "close"..

A better race would be the standard C6 Corvette, or the 02-04 Zo6's, vs The GT500.

02-04 ZO6's typically run low 12's, since they are super light... I see the new Shelby running mid 12's...

The standard C6, being slower than the C5 Zo6, with its 400hp and much lighter curbweight, will be a good match for the Shelby..But no way will the GT500 be in the same league as the new ZO6 which runs mid 11s from the factory.

03 SVT VERT · Dec 6, 2005

I bet it would run with it or atleast be pretty close with a pulley swap though, which cost, like $200, if you borrow a puller. Even with the pulley your still about $30,000 less than the Z06.

Stock to stock though the Z06 will be faster (just as it always was when compared to the Cobra). It's 505hp moving 3150lbs compared to 485 or so hp moving 3600lbs, even though the GT500 is geared lower I don't think it will keep up stock to stock. However, I dont think there is anything else out there in that price range that will beat it and what you could do with it for the money you saved from buying a Z06 would be amazing.

By the way, if you want to know what the GT500 will do in the quarter find the quarter mile time of a 480-500hp '03/'04 Cobra, then subtract a little for the solid axel (which will be slightly faster than IRS).

1994Vobra · Dec 7, 2005

03 SVT VERT said:
I bet it would run with it or atleast be pretty close with a pulley swap though, which cost, like $200, if you borrow a puller. Even with the pulley your still about $30,000 less than the Z06.

Stock to stock though the Z06 will be faster (just as it always was when compared to the Cobra). It's 505hp moving 3150lbs compared to 485 or so hp moving 3600lbs, even though the GT500 is geared lower I don't think it will keep up stock to stock. However, I dont think there is anything else out there in that price range that will beat it and what you could do with it for the money you saved from buying a Z06 would be amazing.

By the way, if you want to know what the GT500 will do in the quarter find the quarter mile time of a 480-500hp '03/'04 Cobra, then subtract a little for the solid axel (which will be slightly faster than IRS).

$200.00???

I disagree that a 200.00 pulley swap will allow the GT500 to run with a ZO6. That is being very optimistic to say the least.. And I disagree that the Cobra will be 3600 pounds.. Most sources I have seen indicate 3800 pounds..

Weighing at least 700 pounds more is a HUGE burden to overcome..
The GT500 would have to have about 100 more hp to the wheels than a ZO6 comes with from the factory, to make up for the weight.. ZO6's dyno around 450-460 rwhp.. That means you will need a 550+ rwhp Cobra to do it..

If the 475 rated hp gt500 somehow gets through the factory with 420-440 hp at the wheels, (which would be great ) That would still leave you with about another 100-120 hp on the table that you would need "find", to be with the ZO6's power to weight ratio..

That is not going to happen with a simple pulley swap..
You're going to need lots of help from the aftermarket (exhaust,intake, who knows what else) , and most of all, get friendly with a good tuner and his dyno.. Doing this will of course throw your warranty out the window, and most likely sacrifice some of the factory refinement.

Theres more to a fast car than just HP.. Weight plays a huge factor.
And this is just at the DRagstrip.. On a race course, there is going to be no comparison.. The GT500 will just be too heavy to keep up.

The Gt500 will most likely respond well to mods and most likely will go as fast as the ZO6, with a few grand in mods..
But its not going to be anywhere as simple as you think.. And you will need a 550rwhp Gt500 to do it.. Which is no small task.

For the guys that just want to just buy a car,not have to worry about the aftermarket, and want a warranty, the ZO6 is hard to beat..

SVTdriver · Dec 7, 2005

1994Vobra said:
$200.00???

I disagree that a 200.00 pulley swap will allow the GT500 to run with a ZO6. That is being very optimistic to say the least.. And I disagree that the Cobra will be 3600 pounds.. Most sources I have seen indicate 3800 pounds..

Weighing at least 700 pounds more is a HUGE burden to overcome..
The GT500 would have to have about 100 more hp to the wheels than a ZO6 comes with from the factory, to make up for the weight.. ZO6's dyno around 450-460 rwhp.. That means you will need a 550+ rwhp Cobra to do it..

If the 475 rated hp gt500 somehow gets through the factory with 420-440 hp at the wheels, (which would be great ) That would still leave you with about another 100-120 hp on the table that you would need "find", to be with the ZO6's power to weight ratio..

That is not going to happen with a simple pulley swap..
You're going to need lots of help from the aftermarket (exhaust,intake, who knows what else) , and most of all, get friendly with a good tuner and his dyno.. Doing this will of course throw your warranty out the window, and most likely sacrifice some of the factory refinement.

Theres more to a fast car than just HP.. Weight plays a huge factor.
And this is just at the DRagstrip.. On a race course, there is going to be no comparison.. The GT500 will just be too heavy to keep up.

The Gt500 will most likely respond well to mods and most likely will go as fast as the ZO6, with a few grand in mods..
But its not going to be anywhere as simple as you think.. And you will need a 550rwhp Gt500 to do it.. Which is no small task.

For the guys that just want to just buy a car,not have to worry about the aftermarket, and want a warranty, the ZO6 is hard to beat..

First without an accurate weight on the Corba. You can't say how much extra hp will be needed. secondly. I thought the hp for weight was some where around 1hp per 10lbs of weight. Which would then by your inflated weight estimate. Be only approx. 70hp to get the same power to weight.

03 SVT VERT · Dec 7, 2005

Exactly, I would think it only needs about 70 or so hp to keep up with the weight and because of the gearing it might even be a little less. I think 60+ hp is easily obtainable with a pulley and a canned tune. I know a 2.81 pulley swap can pick up to 65rwhp with the '03/'04. Even still, you still save $30,000 buying a GT500 over a Z06, which leaves a lot of money for work. The GT500 might not keep up with the Z06 on the track, but how many 4 seater $40,000 cars can pull slightly less than 1g right from the factory and 1g or better with aftermarket tires? Not too many. Like I said before, the Z06 will be the better car, but the GT500 will be the better and more practical car for the money. So, I think it will sell better than the Z06 too.

QCStang · Dec 8, 2005

Cman said:
Maybe in the states since Ford has said it will try to keep the Shelby around US$40k and the Z06 goes for like US$68k and change.

Here in Canada I've talked to SVT dealers and while they can't confirm a price for the Shelby they feel it will be around CAN$65-70k, a Z06 here goes for CAN$89,900 MSRP. That's way less than nearly double.

Since the Ford isn't even avail yet and the Z06 is avail. now my money stays in my account earning interest as I save up more for the Z06, when I'm ready to buy I'll have more than a major deposit to put down on the vehicle.

Remember that even though you are spending more money on a Z06 vs. a Shelby keep in mind the materials and technology that goes into a Z06 as mentioned in my above post, it's worth the price difference to me.

Tony

You better shop around, my local dealer says about $52K CDN.

BLUE03GT · Dec 8, 2005

ummm... my friends 03 Cobra runs 11.5's with full exhaust, pulley& intake, and it makes 495rwhp/503rwtq....

imagine what a 5.4L s/c motor will do with a pulley, exhaust and intake swap... with a LIVE AXLE....

i think STOCK... the 07 Cobra will borderline 11's/12's

1994Vobra · Dec 12, 2005

First without an accurate weight on the Corba. You can't say how much extra hp will be needed.

Weight has been released by two creditable sources, just this month.. Infact the info was given to Road & Track and MM&FF by Ford..

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239655

3855 is the weight for the coupe.. (the vert is 150 pounds more)
With gas & driver, as tested weight was 4155 pounds for the coupe

As I said, you're going to need to "find" an extra 100 hp at the wheels (over what a ZO6 puts out) to keep up with a new ZO6.
Since a ZO6 puts out 450 to the wheels, you're going to need around 550 to the wheels in the Gt500.. Thats alot of horses.

My main point however, is that you are NOTgoing to get that with a simple pulley swap, as was previously suggested...

1994Vobra · Dec 12, 2005

BLUE03GT said:
ummm... my friends 03 Cobra runs 11.5's with full exhaust, pulley& intake, and it makes 495rwhp/503rwtq....

imagine what a 5.4L s/c motor will do with a pulley, exhaust and intake swap... with a LIVE AXLE....

i think STOCK... the 07 Cobra will borderline 11's/12's

Its very possible.. I fully expect the Gt500 to go low 12's factory stock. ITs going to be a Pig weight wise, but its probably also going to be underated..

Still wont be as fast as the new Zo6 though..
You'll need a few grand in mods, a tune and dragradials,

03 SVT VERT · Dec 12, 2005

Ok, a pulley swap, tune, exaust, intake, and maybe a new rear gearing to catch up. Maybe some tires too? That's, what, $5,000 worth of stuff at best? Still $25,000 or so less than a Z06. Point is, the GT500 can show a Z06 its tail lights for a lot less money and less mechanical know how and despite being a pig should handle better than most can drive it on the street. Plus you get two more seats and the option of having a convertable for slightly more. Like I said, stock to stock the Z06 is the better car, but for what you can do to the GT500 and still be less than the Z06 (while still driving around in something that is just as practical as a regular Stang GT) it is going to be the better bang for the buck and probibly be the more popular car.

Szlachcic · Dec 13, 2005

Not that videos are the best way to judge this arguement, but I will state it none-the-less. I saw a vid of a '03/04 Cobra w/ 450ish rwhp and a new Z06 stock run. They both have about the same horses to the wheels and all I can say is that the Z06 walked the Cobra......horribly. Like someone else said, you are going to need to invest a couple grand for it to run with a Z06.

Luckily Z06s are very rare, and are more of a "weekend driver" as someone else said. The GT500 could be driven daily and would still be fast as hell. If I felt like spending more money on my car then I would have definately waited and tried to get a GT500. Z06s are beastly, but the GT500 has tons more character (as do most Mustangs) and I think it would just be more fun to drive.

shooterm1 · Dec 13, 2005

Szlachcic said:
saw a vid of a '03/04 Cobra w/ 450ish rwhp and a new Z06 stock run. They both have about the same horses to the wheels and all I can say is that the Z06 walked the Cobra......horribly.

Luckily Z06s are very rare, and are more of a "weekend driver" as someone else said.

who gets a rat's ass about vett's ?

Every time I see a Vette some old man is behind the wheel in the #3 lane and I'm passing him doing 85 in my V6 ~

(read my signature)

1994Vobra · Dec 14, 2005

The ZO6 will smoke the Gt500..

Prepare to start modding if you want to go after the Z's with your Gt500.

4MuscleMachines · Dec 15, 2005

1994Vobra said:
$200.00???

I disagree that a 200.00 pulley swap will allow the GT500 to run with a ZO6. That is being very optimistic to say the least.. And I disagree that the Cobra will be 3600 pounds.. Most sources I have seen indicate 3800 pounds..

Weighing at least 700 pounds more is a HUGE burden to overcome..

I fully agree but the weight is actually closer to 3850lbs, I believe 4150lbs with driver and 10gallons of gas. The C6 Z06 owners with headers and a small cam change (slightly higher lift than stock to avoid a tune), have been dynoed at 505-525 RWHP with NO tune. I am a lifelong Ford Mustang guy but I have a Z06 on order. I like my Fords but I do not let my feelings get in the way of clouding the facts, the GT500 will never be on par with the Z06.

OOPs, just read the second page of this thread with the weight details

Szlachcic · Dec 15, 2005

shooterm1 said:
who gets a rat's ass about vett's ?

Every time I see a Vette some old man is behind the wheel in the #3 lane and I'm passing him doing 85 in my V6 ~

(read my signature)

Your comment is true about vette's usually having older drivers, but it is also narrow-minded. I wouldn't mind having a new vette, but I love the Mustang b/c it is fun and more practical. Corvettes are nice cars even if they are built by GM.

shooterm1 · Dec 15, 2005

Szlachcic said:
Your comment is true about vette's usually having older drivers, but it is also narrow-minded. I wouldn't mind having a new vette, but I love the Mustang b/c it is fun and more practical. Corvettes are nice cars even if they are built by GM.

Forgive me for my FORD Chauvinism

~ hats off to the Corvette, the best designed US car that no one under 50 drives ~

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