Help with N2O in Cbaza Strategy??

[biglar]

Hi i have a 1995 mustang gt 302 ci . Engine mods are; trickflow street heat intake,65mm TB, 90mm lighting maf, gt40P headsw/1.90 In and 1.55 ex valves, BBK shorties ,X pipe, Trickflow Plate between the upper and lower intake . N2O Wet Kit 125 shot

Suspension mods are; Hotchkis upper and lower control arms,Strange struts and shocks, Mt 26x8x15 et drags

Lentech AODE 2.40 1st gear w/ a manual valve body, 91/2 lockup convertor 2800 stall

4.10 gears
With stock heads and cam and the TF intake ,65mm Tb and 70mm Maf and a 125 wet shot the car ran a 12.34 @109 MPH Im looking for some .Bin files on a simular setup or just some help on getting the Caledit setup properly for N2O on a CBAZA strategy w/ the above setup. Ill probably move up to a 150 shot of Wet N2O and definetly dont want to detonate in anyway. If someone could please tell me what the" tip in spark retard "should be set at would really help also. Having a 1995 w/ the cbaza strategy and modded j4j1 tune is really a challenge when using N2O. Also advise on the spark and fuel tables will really help!!

Thanks again

Larry

 

[Methodical]

Don't know if this will help. But I just sprayed my nitrous for the 1st time Friday. I have the NX wet kit jetted at 100hp. I started with the 50hp shot and put everything back to stock, except I even lowered the commanded AF to 11.5 - Just wanted to be absolutely safe on the 1st spray. After a couple of sprays, I jetted the car for the 100hp - AF still at 11.5 - haven't used the wideband yet to confirm though AFR and put tip in retard back to 26* to match stock timing. No issues with this setting. As as the spark table I put it all back to stock for the N20 tune and will began working my way out of the stock tune. I changed the upper row of the stabilized fuel table to 11.5 and again will work my way out of it safely.


By the way what are you having with the J4j1 and Nitrous tune. I am curious as I am working on getting a good N20 tune to eventually run the 150hp shot.

Thanks

 

[blksn955.o]

tip in for the shifting will be good to keep at the stock setting as its a timing retard mostly to help the t5.

Spark to be safe and starting see were your at without ping N/A and then remove the 2* per 50hp rule for starters. Before you spray its a good idea to get a W/B to make sure your getting what your commanding. Shoot for an 11.5-11.8 A/F ratio while on the bottle. Even if you just have to break down and get some dyno time with a W/B make some pulls to be sure...around here 50-80$ has been done with W/B for groups and figure 100 or so for a single person at least with W/B.

If your wanting alittle more traction off the line for when the bottle "hits" its not a bad thing to have a slower adv. rate in the spark tables...you can play around with the rate of adv. to see what nets a better 60ft/find the sweet spot.

From what I have heard about 2.x first gears they seem to kill the launch unless you have some power...I have no first hand exp. but that is what I have heard so launching on the bottle may be easier for you if the AOD can handle it. So you might not need that slow of an adv. rate if the gearing of 1st and the rear/tires like a more agressive launch.

 

[final5-0]

Hi i have a 1995 mustang gt 302 ci . Engine mods are; trickflow street heat intake,65mm TB, 90mm lighting maf, gt40P headsw/1.90 In and 1.55 ex valves, BBK shorties ,X pipe, Trickflow Plate between the upper and lower intake . N2O Wet Kit 125 shot

Suspension mods are; Hotchkis upper and lower control arms,Strange struts and shocks, Mt 26x8x15 et drags

Lentech AODE 2.40 1st gear w/ a manual valve body, 91/2 lockup convertor 2800 stall

4.10 gears
With stock heads and cam and the TF intake ,65mm Tb and 70mm Maf and a 125 wet shot the car ran a 12.34 @109 MPH Im looking for some .Bin files on a simular setup or just some help on getting the Caledit setup properly for N2O on a CBAZA strategy w/ the above setup. Ill probably move up to a 150 shot of Wet N2O and definetly dont want to detonate in anyway. If someone could please tell me what the" tip in spark retard "should be set at would really help also. Having a 1995 w/ the cbaza strategy and modded j4j1 tune is really a challenge when using N2O. Also advise on the spark and fuel tables will really help!!

Thanks again

Larry

Well Larry

I don't know much about N2O but some general thoughts would be ......

First thing I'd think you would want to have in place is a WB :Word:

The spark retard is simply a value that the pcm will retard the spark
to for about 1/2 of a second when you go from low load and almost
closed throttle to WOT. The default value is 5. I use the same value
for that tip in scalar as I do for the max value in the greatest load
row of my base spark table for my NA sig combo.

With your use of N2O, I'd think you might wanna back that down a bit.

As for the spark tables

There are four which are Base, Altitude, Borderline, & MBT

My method is to null out all but Base with 55 values in all cells and
tune with the Base table only

I'd use the top or greatest load row for WOT tuning

Also ... I personally don't care for that global spark adder scalar

As for fuel tables Larry

I would point you to other threads here where we have given specific
details about this as this is an area where one can do damage

You can also find info on my site and at the wiki site as well

anyway ...

I use the following to arrive at a WOT fuel ratio
wide band outputted in my datalogs so all data is synchronized
high speed fuel enrichment function
stabilized Open Loop fuel table
maf transfer function

Grady

 

[biglar]

hey thanks for the responses guys!! ive set my tip in fuel retard to 26 as with the timing from 3000 on at .5 load ive got the fuel table set to 11.5 and my wb verifies this on a wot run. Im just working on a good safe tune as of now and i havent sprayed it yet since i got the tweecer rt. Ive been about 6-7 months learning the software and finally im starting to understand it better. I also have EA which is a big help and im still learning how to use it. I have until next apr to fully understand the tweecer and EA and man i really love the products. Im just hoping to share some tunes with some other CBAZA guys. I havent even put on the P heads or the nx plate as of yet so im really looking forward to some mid 11 sec ET`s. Right now im thinking of doing a 331 w/ a Jay Allen custom cam for next year. I have a lentech stage 2 AODE which is good for a 1000 hp so it will hold up fine. my best 60 ft time has been a 1.62 on the bottle and i have some pics w/ the front tires about 3-4 inches off the ground. Not bad for a car that went 16.10 stock!!. I really like using n2O as its only building cylinder pressure when its on and it goes on soooo cold. Anyway lets keep in touch and help each other learn the CBAZA N2O thing. Thanks again guys

Big Lar

 

[final5-0]

Heck Fire Larry

I kinda took your original post as you were a NOOB
and
Thats not the case at all

You are setup with a WB

You have learned enough to call for a certain fuel ratio
and
You have been able to verify it is so in your dlogs

The same can be said with your Spark values

Your a dad gum self tuning Guru
and
You need to jump in here in this forum big time

You most likely can teach me a thing or two

Grady

 

[biglar]

Thanks Grady i read a lot of your posts and they have been a big help to me. I have a PLX 300 wb and its hooked up thru the evp sensor so i can datalog in calcon. I still dont understand the HS fuel enrichment or the global spark adder as of yet. I use EA to analyze my MAF and im using a 90mm lightening maf as of now. In the datalogs during WOT , my AFR is between 11.2 and 11.5 and the spark retards to 26 degrees from 3000 on. This is how i have the tip in spark retard set to also 26 degrees. I have disabled the other 3 spark tables and tune off the base spark table. You Know when i first got the tweecer rt i felt like i was trying to learn Chinese!! and this year i sat out racing so i could devote my time to learning this software. IMHO mike glover and Clint garrity have come up with some brilliant software for tuning the ford EEC and im getting really excited about using it. As i read posts now from guys on other message boards about the problems there having w/ their H/C/I swaps its clear as day now as to what they really need to do. Again thanks guys for the responses and long live CBAZA!!

Big Lar

 

[biglar]

One last question for tonite. With the distributor set at 10 btdc for initial timing what is the stock full advance is it 32 degrees advanced??

 

[biglar]

I dont know about teaching you a thing or 2 Grady ) ive read alot of your posts and you do know what your talking about !!! Ill always share what i learn w/ anybody. Im a 53 y/o drag racer from LA origionally and i never thought id go with anything but a Carb Ha Ha Ha. Do i love EFI Tuning, oh Yea

Larry

 

[blksn955.o]

With the global think if it as the exact same as turning the dizzy. With the control we have in the tables the global spark adder is just not worth messing with...its like deer hunting with a 50cal there are better tools.

The high speed enrich is more or less a soft rev. limit/speed limiter as at a given mph (diff. from GT to Cobra) it dumps more fuel into the system. IIRC to kill it set it to all 1's you can see in the graph in the tweecer were it adds fuel.

Stock full adv. IIRC is like 28* on our eecs but it is diff. from GT to cobra alittle IIRC. Advance rate is also slow stock with it not fully in until like 4k rpm.

1.6 60ft not bad at all

 

[biglar]

IIRC ?? help me out a little BlK sn955.0. I dont know what that means
Thanks larry

 

[final5-0]

Thanks Grady i read a lot of your posts and they have been a big help to me. I have a PLX 300 wb and its hooked up thru the evp sensor so i can datalog in calcon. I still dont understand the HS fuel enrichment or the global spark adder as of yet. I use EA to analyze my MAF and im using a 90mm lightening maf as of now. In the datalogs during WOT , my AFR is between 11.2 and 11.5 and the spark retards to 26 degrees from 3000 on. This is how i have the tip in spark retard set to also 26 degrees. I have disabled the other 3 spark tables and tune off the base spark table. You Know when i first got the tweecer rt i felt like i was trying to learn Chinese!! and this year i sat out racing so i could devote my time to learning this software. IMHO mike glover and Clint garrity have come up with some brilliant software for tuning the ford EEC and im getting really excited about using it. As i read posts now from guys on other message boards about the problems there having w/ their H/C/I swaps its clear as day now as to what they really need to do. Again thanks guys for the responses and long live CBAZA!!

Big Lar

Larry

Thanks so much for taking the time to let me know some of my past efforts
have helped you in some way

So many nice peeps have helped me in the past I could not even begin
to remember who to give credit to :Word:

Having said that ...
I do so enjoy giving back to the self tuning community

The fuel enrichment function is no great secret Larry

Its just a multiplier that is governed by MPH

Say you are calling for 12.5 to 1.00 in the j4j1 file

At 90MPH it slopes down to being enriched by .953
or
12.5 X .953 = 11.91 for the changed value

To kill its effect you simply load in the same values
you see at the lower speeds for the high speeds

btw ... I'd not use a value of 1.00 in those cells
if you've already done some work in that area
as you will then lean things out a bit

The Global Spark Adder scalar is to me like dizzy twisting
thus
its an all or nothing kinda thing
and
NO Flexibility like the tables

Yes ... When you first get started in learning pcm basics
It can be somewhat intimidating

You just stick with it and read enough old posts until it makes sense :Word:

I've had a lot of fun with the whole self tuning thing
and
The self tuning community is a great bunch of folk

Grady

 

[blksn955.o]

sorry, IIRC = If I ReCall or If I Remember Correctly.

Grady,

Are you saying that since his WOT fuel readings are matching what he is commanding that if he was to change his enrichment to 1 it would now sque those numbers? That is the way I read it, I just dont want some confusion that if you are still setting the WOT A/F and dont want the mutliplyer setting it to 1 will dissable it. That is how I have always heard of turning it "off" anyway.

Earlier in the post the thread starter stated he is getting an 11.2 - 11.5 ratio...depending on what he is commanding the mulitplier could be causing the .3 change. Granted its probably good even at 11.5 but what if he starts leaning it out to say 11.8 or 12 to see if there is much gain in going alittle more "lean is mean".

 

[final5-0]

LOL ... I had to walk away from my last post for a while before being able
to finish my reply and everybody else said what I was gonna say before
I said it ... But when I said it ... I didn't know ya'll said it

Man O Man
We live in a very different world than just a short decade ago

WOW Larry ... You are almost as old as me
Hey ... I bet I got more grand kids than you

Larry ... Your Q about if the dizzy is at 10 and amount of advance

What you see in the tables is what you get

It will be what ever you call for in the base spark table
unless
Something like an ACT or ECT might be hosing around with things

Now about my earlier comment on the enrichment

Greg

I said that for a couple of reasons
1) Since he did not know about it ... I felt he had not hosed around with it
2) Since he talked of working with his wb ...
I felt he has already optimized his final af ratio

Looking at a default j4j1 enrichment table we see 0 to 90 MPH is
valued at .992

This value is multiplied to the stabilized fuel table

If one changed it to 1.00 ... you would lean out some what

I guess we should do the math
Lets use 12.5 to 1.00 again
so
12.5 X .992 = 12.4 for speeds of 0 to 90 MPH
so
If one put all values to 1.00 you would lean out by 1/10th of a point

True ... Not a lot ... But ... That ain't the point of this discussion

What is needed to be seen is ... How It Works ... in the first place

Lets just say

A Long Time Ago.......
In A Galaxy Far Far Away ......
I learned that enrichment thing ... the hard way

Yes Greg ... You are correct
If you don't want the values to be effected by the multiplication ...
Setting it to a 1.00 value would be the hot ticket

Hope I did not confuse the issue

Grady

 

[Black95GTS]

With the global think if it as the exact same as turning the dizzy. With the control we have in the tables the global spark adder is just not worth messing with...its like deer hunting with a 50cal there are better tools.

This is one of the best and funniest analogies I've ever heard.

Adam

 

[final5-0]

This is one of the best and funniest analogies I've ever heard.

Adam

Just one more perfect example to show

Not just anybody hangs here

Yeah ... That Right ... We got the best peeps :Word:

Hummmmm

Maybe we might have to start calling Greg ......

Rambo... The Dear Hunter

Grady

 

[blksn955.o]

Thanks for clearing that up Grady, I just thought I would ask to make it clear what was being talked about (god forbid someone searches the topic someday). I was fairly sure that is what you were posting about.

Although credit I think is due...some of the "noobs" look like they have searched... .

I would rather take the hunting stylings of Bill Murry's caddyshack grounds keeper...a salt lick of explosives glad to be of some comic relief.