t-5 conversion help?..........please?

[mean78]

alright, so i really need to do a 5 speed conversion, (obvioulsy a t-5)

i have read tech articals about it from more then a few different sites, but i want your guys opinion about it?.....for those of you that have dont this, what year t-5 to use? i know about the crossmember modification which is cool with me, i have a buddy who does nothing but metal work. but basically my question is, what do you guys recommend?......where did you get your info?

 

[Dano78]

Well...from the jist of it... If you're a header person, you'll prolly want to stick with the II bellhousing. If Headers are not an issue, simplicity may dictate using the T-5 bell, and building a new crossmember for the strut rod mounts.

I have not actually done one yet. But have gathered up all the piece to do mine.... if I can ever get space in the shop. I've got and gonna use the MII bell, so i can retain my Dynomax headers and I've got Vince's crossmember, and the T-5 is a V8, 1990, I believe. I've got a '94-'95 input shaft that is suppose to allow you to stuff the T-5 right in without an extension pilot bushing. Just need a replacement bearing retainer and have it machined down to fit inside the MII bell. Possibly need to shorten/lengthen the driveline too.

Info sources? Well that topic has been brought up many times over here on the boards. I believe Darryl put together a pretty good tech article on the whole business.

Darryl's T-5 swap page-
http://www.a351must2.atfreeweb.com/

 

[mean78]

ok so with a t-5 bell it isnt possible to use headers?....has anyone ever overcome this problem?

with the 4 speed bell you need to get a longer pilot bushing?

sorry for the dumb questions lol

 

[Dano78]

Only dumb question is one that isn't asked....

Rumor has it that the Headman headers, with slight massaging, will fit around the T-5 bellhousing. I believe someone here on the boards has done it. I've installed a couple sets of headmans and noticed that there is alot more clearance around the II bellhousing than with the Dynomax/Blackjack headers which I have on my Fastback. I haven't tried installing the Headmans with the T-5 bell yet, so I can't tell ya for sure.

I believe Headman also makes larger primary tube headers for the II. However, they are under-chassis headers that have all the tubes exiting under the main crossmember fromt he front. I think you need a motor plate to run these aswell. Hooker offers a set of large primary headers that two tubes on each header exit the outside of the framerails (hacking a hole in the inner fenders) which might net you more room.

Or just get creative and hack up the set you have if you're pretty good with a mig or tig welder. Summit sells mandrel bends and also a kit to fab up headers. It's time consuming and tests your patients, but then you get the fit and finish you desire.

If you use the MII bellhousing with the T-5 trans, the input shaft is about 1" too short, thus needing someting to fill the void. You either machine up a bushing like Darryl has spec'd out or the other alternative is using a '94-'95 input shaft which is about 1" longer.
OR use the Fox body T-5 bellhousing but then I'm not sure if the II clutch cable will work or not. Also there is a supporting crossmember that connects to the strut brackets that runs underneath the bellhousing that you may not be able to use or would have to modify. Someone here on the boards has used the T-5 fox bell, you'll just have to get them to chime in.

 

[kcobra302]

i am using the 94-95 t-5. when i pulled it to fix a leak i found that the input shaft was only riding in the stock pilot bearing by about 3/16" of an inch. i am using the mII bell.

i had a local shop make up a longer pilot bearing using the dimensions on the .net site and subtracted the additional length difference between the pre 94 and post 94 input shaft.

keep in mind each tranny, bell and input shaft can be different from unit to unit but these were my results.

 

[Steel Steeds]

I'm installing a T-5 with the Fox bell. I hope to actually get it in position in the car tomorrow. I'm putting the stock manifolds on for now, and will have custom headers made to fit once I get everything running. I tried bolting the manifolds up to the motor last night, and found that I'm going to have to grind on them as they hit the ridge on my new aluminum heads!

I want to use the T-5 bell so that I can run a new billet flywheel and high-torque mini starter. I have a new clutch cable, as well as both clutch fork styles. There will need to be some modifications made to get it all to work smoothly. I also have 3 different crossmembers, but will undoubtedly still have to fab something up.

The T-5 that I bought is a brand new, NOS '93 Cobra transmission, and I'm going to run the FRPP King Cobra clutch, along with a B&M Pro Ripper short throw shifter.

I'll be posting more info as I make progress...

 

[mean78]

so what are the dynomax headers?

ok so in the tech artical he mentions that he "reduced the T-5 input shaft collar by 0.010"

what exactly is the collar?

so i guess ill go with the II bell housing, what year t-5 would you recommend?

94-95?, then have them lengthen the pilot bushing?

 

[kcobra302]

dynomax headers differ from the more common hedman headers with the number one tube following the other three down and over the engine mount. the hedman's number one tube goes straight down then 90 degrees under the front cross member. they have not been made for a number of years but do show up on ebay from time to time. i believe hooker may still have a set available and are a similar design to the dynomax.

the input shaft collar is also know as the bearing retainer. most t-5's have an aluminum retainer. it is worth the 25 bucks to get the steel one. the area that needs to be machined is where it bolts up to the transmission. this portion of the retainer centers the transmission in the bell. it will not fit in the mii bell properly without it being machined. mine was very close to fitting the bell and i am sure with some persuasion it would have fit but i did not want to risk damaging the bell.

if you want to try and go with the stock pilot bearing the 94-95 is the way to go but as i said in my other post i was not comfortable with the depth of the wear pattern. if you are going to machine your own pilot bearing go with whichever you can get. i also picked up 1990 pilot bearing and had the machine shop remove the roller cage from it and put in the new bearing they made for me.

i went with the aftermarket and had a number of upgrades made to my t-5. it was only 150 more than a new t-5 from summit or jegs. steel retainer, different cut gears and some of the internals were upgraded using g-force parts.

 

[mean78]

dynomax headers differ from the more common hedman headers with the number one tube following the other three down and over the engine mount. the hedman's number one tube goes straight down then 90 degrees under the front cross member. they have not been made for a number of years but do show up on ebay from time to time. i believe hooker may still have a set available and are a similar design to the dynomax.

the input shaft collar is also know as the bearing retainer. most t-5's have an aluminum retainer. it is worth the 25 bucks to get the steel one. the area that needs to be machined is where it bolts up to the transmission. this portion of the retainer centers the transmission in the bell. it will not fit in the mii bell properly without it being machined. mine was very close to fitting the bell and i am sure with some persuasion it would have fit but i did not want to risk damaging the bell.

if you want to try and go with the stock pilot bearing the 94-95 is the way to go but as i said in my other post i was not comfortable with the depth of the wear pattern. if you are going to machine your own pilot bearing go with whichever you can get. i also picked up 1990 pilot bearing and had the machine shop remove the roller cage from it and put in the new bearing they made for me.

i went with the aftermarket and had a number of upgrades made to my t-5. it was only 150 more than a new t-5 from summit or jegs. steel retainer, different cut gears and some of the internals were upgraded using g-force parts.

ok, ya so i think i will end up doing what you did, and then just have a machine shop make a longer pilot bushing, i would want it to ride completely on the shaft instead of just 3/16ths of it

how much does the II bell housing need to be milled to fit the t-5?

thanks for al your help

 

[kcobra302]

i had the bearing retainer milled instead of the opening in the bellhousing.

i took the retainer off of the 4-speed that came in my car and had the machine shop match them up

the part that needs to be milled is the aluminum portion that bolts up to the trans. see pic

 

[mean78]

i had the bearing retainer milled instead of the opening in the bellhousing.

i took the retainer off of the 4-speed that came in my car and had the machine shop match them up

the part that needs to be milled is the aluminum portion that bolts up to the trans. see pic

alright sounds good, i have a buddy who ownes a metal shop.

he should be able to do that no problem.

what about the crossmember?.....what exactly needs to be done?

 

[mean78]

so i found a world class t-5 out of a later 95,

i want to use my II bell housing, other then modifing the cross member, and milling down the throw out bearing sleeve collar. will i be ok?

or should i have a longer pilot bearing made?

what about the clutch and flywheel?....does anything need to be done with those?

and the drive shaft will be the right lenght?

haha thanks for all your guys help!!

 

[Dano78]

so i found a world class t-5 out of a later 95,

i want to use my II bell housing, other then modifing the cross member, and milling down the throw out bearing sleeve collar. will i be ok?

or should i have a longer pilot bearing made?

what about the clutch and flywheel?....does anything need to be done with those?

and the drive shaft will be the right lenght?

haha thanks for all your guys help!!

Yeah you should be ok. If you car is currently an auto trans, you;ll need to locate a MII V8 Flywheel aswell. These may be difficult to get but for some reason I recall someone re-producing them.... somewhere. Then just run the MII clutch kit, a 10" unit, still available new over the parts counter.

As long as you use the MII bellhousing with that T-5 you'll need to have that pilot bushing made as well as having the 'throwout bearing sleeve collar', as you call it, machined down. They will BOTH need to be done. Donr maching the Bellhousing, then it will only work for the T-5 and probably nothing else. Much easier to changeout the collar rather than hunt down another 4 speed bellhousing. You'll need the block/spacer plate for the MII 4speed bell too. There is a guy on E-bay reproducing these.

Dunno about the driveshaft, prolly need to be shortened. Can't remember for sure either, but the T-5 yoke may be different from the MII C4 and 4 speed. Basic shorten and rebalance of a driveline around here runs from $75 to $100 and sometimes includes new u-joints.

Another note on the Dynomax headers.... They are a real tight-to-the-engine/trans fitting headers. I had to shave some material off the C4 bellhousing and modify the rag joint on the steering shaft on my set to get them to fit properly. They hug the tranny real tight and causes the trans to build extra heat. The headmans are a bit more forgiving on the clearance issues. Not sure about the Hooker set though, never installed a set.

 

[mean78]

ya mine is a 4 speed already(RAD 4)..its kinda fried.....

so my flywheel is the right one?.....ok i think im all taken care of...until something comes up.....

do you know if anyone has ever tried like a fox body "shorty" header?

and also, do solid motor mounts exist?.....

 

[Steel Steeds]

The shorty headers have been tried, and reportedly do not work.

 

[Dano78]

and also, do solid motor mounts exist?.....

Specifically for the II, not that i have ever seen.
Could you make your existing ones solid.... sure.

But why use solid engine mounts????

 

[mean78]

Specifically for the II, not that i have ever seen.
Could you make your existing ones solid.... sure.

But why use solid engine mounts????

i guess just to stiffen it up. no real reason, i just know i need some, mine are kinda loose.

 

[stubblejumper]

I've done the T5 conversion. I used the method as per Daryl Lang did. Here's what I did. I used Hooker headers, a MII bellhousing, flywheel, and a Luk 10" clutch. I had to make the hole in the tranny tunnel bigger as the shifter moves towards the dash. I used a Hurst shifter that moves the shifter handle back a bit. My hand doesn't hit the dash with this setup. I had the drive shaft shortened 1". I used the bushing method. If I remember correctly to use a 94-95 input shaft you are still about 3/8" short. On idea I've heard is having both ends of the bellhousing machined to get rid of that 3/8". Not sure I like that idea. I went with the bushing seeing as the longer input shaft is very specific to that 2 year period and will be hard to come by. I had the bell machined to accept the retainer vs the other way. My thought was I'm not going back to a 4 speed anyway so in the future it's easier to replace the bearing retainer this way. Just my way not necessarily the right way. On another note my son and I are looking into fabbing up some double humper crossmembers for this conversion. They would use the existing factory mounts and accept the factory tranny mount. We don't like the crossmember idea hanging off the back off the factory mount. It puts to much shear force on the bolts. It does work I will admit that, but we think there are other options, again my viewpoint.

 

[mean78]

I've done the T5 conversion. I used the method as per Daryl Lang did. Here's what I did. I used Hooker headers, a MII bellhousing, flywheel, and a Luk 10" clutch. I had to make the hole in the tranny tunnel bigger as the shifter moves towards the dash. I used a Hurst shifter that moves the shifter handle back a bit. My hand doesn't hit the dash with this setup. I had the drive shaft shortened 1". I used the bushing method. If I remember correctly to use a 94-95 input shaft you are still about 3/8" short. On idea I've heard is having both ends of the bellhousing machined to get rid of that 3/8". Not sure I like that idea. I went with the bushing seeing as the longer input shaft is very specific to that 2 year period and will be hard to come by. I had the bell machined to accept the retainer vs the other way. My thought was I'm not going back to a 4 speed anyway so in the future it's easier to replace the bearing retainer this way. Just my way not necessarily the right way. On another note my son and I are looking into fabbing up some double humper crossmembers for this conversion. They would use the existing factory mounts and accept the factory tranny mount. We don't like the crossmember idea hanging off the back off the factory mount. It puts to much shear force on the bolts. It does work I will admit that, but we think there are other options, again my viewpoint.

well i found a 95 for about 250, its got the hurst shifter on, im using the MII bell but i think if i just have a longer pilot bushing (to make up the extra distance) then i should be ok, i also dont like how the cross member needs to be dont, i already have a friend who has taken my measurments and started on a tubular one

but other then that i should be good

 

[likesoldjunk]

Can anyone provide the door tag numbers for the various 5 speeds
we've been discussing ?