Backfire that just keeps getting worse?

ErikZ

New Member
Jan 6, 2009
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I have had my 88 gt 5.0 for a few months now. I have a big problem. The car has a backfire/loss of power problem which has been getting worse as time goes on. It sounds like it is coming more from the intake than the exhaust but I can't really tell for sure. It does it almost at any range in the rpm's. Also, it doesn't matter if it is cold or warmed up. Like I said, it is getting progressively worse and it's so bad, I can barely drive it now.

Here is a list of parts I have replaced:

Plugs- gap within spec
Wires- made sure of correct firing order
Cap
Rotor
Ignition coil
Ignition module
TPS sensor
Pulled a code that said EGR not opening so...
EGR valve- cleaned throttle body in process
Feul pump
Feul filter

If anyone else has any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm out of ideas.
 
Run a cylinder balance test. You do it after pulling KOER codes.

Which EGR code did you get? Did the code go away?
 
Backfiring out the intake is either a valve stuck open or a lean mixture or spark plug wire(s) connected to the wrong cylinder(s). Check compression on all cylinders and then look for vacuum hoses loose, cracked, or misconnected. Check the line for the vapor recirculation system – it is easy to knock loose and not see it when you connect the air pump plumbing. If the vacuum line for the EGR valve and the air pump are cross connected, some very strange things can happen. Check the mass air flow electrical connection and see that it is tight, the same goes for the fuel injection wiring harness connectors up on top of the manifold near the firewall.

Sticking valves: If a intake valve is bent, has a bad spring or is misadjusted, the engine will sometimes backfire through the intake. Use a vacuum gauge connected to any convenient spot on the intake manifold. Run the engine at 1000 RPM & look for 18-21 inches of vacuum with a steady needle. A problem intake valve will make the vacuum gauge needle sweep 5-10 inches.

Lean fuel mixture breaks out into several sub categories:
A.). Vacuum leaks
B.) Air entering the intake without passing through the MAF on Mass Air cars (89-95 models).
C.) Failure of the MAF, BAP/MAP (Baro or Manifold Air Pressure, same sensor, different name), ACT (air charge temp), or ECT (engine coolant temp). These should set a code in the computer.
D.) Leaking exhaust gases from EGR valve at WOT or EGR opening when it should not be open.
E.) Poor fuel delivery due to bad fuel pump, clogged filter or bad fuel pump wiring. Look for low pressure or fluctuating pressure. Standard injector pressure is 39 PSI at idle, with the vacuum line disconnected from the regulator and capped.
F.) Clogged fuel injectors.- see the cylinder balance test below
H.) Fuel injector wiring problems causing injector not to deliver rated flow.
I.) Computer problems: (computer problems are not common like sensor problems)
J.). ROM has bad data in fuel or timing table. This should also set a code in the computer.
K.) Failure of one or more of the computer's driver transistors for the fuel injectors. No code set on this one. Use a noid test light to test the injector wiring & injector drivers,
L.) MAF calibration off or mismatched to injectors.
M.) ACT or ECT bad. Sometimes the sensors will be off calibration, but not bad enough to set a code. If they falsely read too high a temp, the engine will back off fuel delivery.

Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures. Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure

If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

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The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

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The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/pc-7208-90-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
 
I just hooked up a scantool to it. It is not throwing any codes.
It is about 2,200 rpms at which it "hits a wall". I was drving it today and it was would come and go. Drive great then drive like crap. I checked the timing and have good feul pressure.
How can you check the o2's? Or do you just have to replace them?
I was also told it could be a bad distributor?
 
Bad O2 sensors usually set code 41/91. See the test path below on how to test them with a good analog voltmeter.

Code 41 or 91 - O2 indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

Code 41 is a RH side sensor,
Code 91 is the LH side sensor.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.
A secondary problem with only a code 41 is for cars with an intact smog pump and cats. If the tube on the back of the heads clogs up the driver’s side, all the air from the smog pump gets dumped into one side. This excess air upsets the O2 sensor calibration and can set a false code 41. The cure is to remove the crossover tube and thoroughly clean the insides so that there is no carbon blocking the free flow of air to both heads.
 
I just replaced the egr valve and cleaned the throttle body also.

If there is a plastic position sensor on top of the EGR it might be bad. I replaced mine on my older car and it fixed the EGR issues and backfiring at WOT.

Cleaning the three MAP sensor posts and putting dialectric grease on fixed that code issue too. New MAP sensors made the car run worse so I took them back.

The last two things I found. Two brand new plug wires were defective and also the in tank fuel pump was failing. Took new plug wires back put old ones back on and put in new pump.

Now runs perfectly at all speeds. Good for another 170k miles?
 
Have you touched the timing? I hope you didnt change all those parts in hope of fixing the problem, always better to diagnose the problem instead of throwing parts at it, atleast you got a nice tune up. Anyways, sounds like it could be a vacuum leak, I think a video would help to see how severe it is, what rpms, etc. Does it still show that egr code after you replaced the egr valve?

I would run a vacuum test on it, there are a few vacuum lines under the upper intake plenum you cannot see, maybe one of the plastic lines got very brittle and cracked. I would run the test and if you got a leak I would take off the plenum and see whats going on under there if there are no visible leaks anywhere else.

And just for the heck of it, see what your timing is at.
 
I have had my 88 gt 5.0 for a few months now. I have a big problem. The car has a backfire/loss of power problem which has been getting worse as time goes on.

Ignition module

If anyone else has any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm out of ideas.

Here's a new thing to check. I found a mechanic who actually likes old fords and has a factory scope. He took the time over 3 days and burned up 1/2 tank of my gas driving it to unravel the two cylinder miss under load "mystery".

A PO had replaced the plug running from the computer to the ignition module on the distributor (splices hidden inside plastic runner) AND as it turns out had switched two of the wires while installing it. This caused a slight erratic idle, a backfire on high speed deceleration and at high speed WOT acceleration miss and occassional backfire but I drove and raced the car this way for 3 years thinking it was normal. Guess the computer can compensate for really bad things. After those wires were put back in place the car runs better than it ever has.

Good luck. Look for PO fixes in your wiring.

My last resort was going to be a carb conversion but for now the 84cfi is still totally stock with all emissions working and running really strong without any issues at all. So screw O'bama and his EPA testing.