Timing Question After Top End Rebuild...

[Strype]

HCI install. Okay I've found 4 threads via search (1 week to 3 months old) with my EXACT problem and I think we are all 180 degrees out...

Symptoms:
Some of the spark plugs are flooded with gas, gas in the exhaust. I have gas in the oil pan. Backfiring thru the intake.

I marked where my rotor button was facing. It was at 3:00 looking from the front of the motor to the rear of the car. I should have bumped the motor to where it was at TDC but did not. I restabbed the distributor exactly 180 deg at the 9:00 position.

I tried to cranked the motor. Didn't work. To my surprise the harmonic balancer read 0. The "ATC" mark is counter clockwise to the zero and has 5 marks representing 10 degrees. After the zero mark is 15 degree marks representing 30 degrees and after the 30 is a "BTC" mark.

The zero mark was spot on the "timing" straight edge of the timing marker on the block.

In EVERY 5.0 I've owned the #1 wire on the cap is at 1:30 position. The #1 is marked underneath the cap as well. The rotor button is always pointing toward it. This is the way I took it off this car and the other 2 I've owned.

After I had spun the dizzy around 180 degrees NOT at TDC and tried to crank the car, I lucked up on TDC. And you know what? The rotor was pointing at 1:30. The lower cap was marked at the intake bolt and it was lined up too.

QUESTION!


In every diagram I read, the #1 is at the 12:00 position. My wires were no where near this unless I spun the dizzy way out of whack. Why do these diagrams not add up? Even with the advance in timing I've NEVER seen the #1 wire at 12:00 or the rotor button there.

It is wanting to crank now but the plugs are probably fouled and the battery is about dead. Do I need to put the motor back at TDC, change the way I've always seen it and put the #1 plug wire at 12:00- against where it says #1 on the underside of the cap, and point the rotor at 12:00 all in the name of cranking this car????

If someone answers this right I will by you a huge cookie!!!

 

[67coupe]

Sounds like it's out of time. I would re-stab the dizzy from square one.

1) Remove dizzy
2) Pull #1 spark plug
3) Rotate engine (clockwise) with socket and wrench until you feel a rush of air out #1 plug hole (might need someone to help you). You are now on the compression stroke for the #1 cylinder.
4) Check the balancer, rotate (clockwise) until timing mark lines up with 10* BTDC.
5) Re-install #1 plug.
6) Re-install dizzy with rotor pointing at #1 terminal on cap.
7) Start engine.
8) Verify/set timing with light.

The position of the number terminal in comparison with a clockface is not very important. As long as the #1 plug wire is on the terminal marked as #1 and you can rotate the distributor to reach your desired timing, the timing is correct.

 

[Strype]

Yea a buddy just answered it for me and I remeber this happeneing to another friend. Evidently the position of the plug wires doesn't matter at all. You get it at TDC, set the dizzy in and wherever that rotor points is where you put your #1 plug wire.

I'll do that tomorrow. I have to get a battery charger because my battery is dying from the cranking attempts. Plus the plugs are probably fouled out. And they've got those LED flashlights that are 2 for $5

 

[67coupe]

Yea a buddy just answered it for me and I remeber this happeneing to another friend. Evidently the position of the plug wires doesn't matter at all. You get it at TDC, set the dizzy in and wherever that rotor points is where you put your #1 plug wire.

Actually, on Ford EFI, the position of the #1 plug wire DOES matter. The hall sensor in the dizzy has a specific sized window for the #1 cylinder (this is for injector firing sequence). But, as long as the #1 wire is on the terminal marked as #1 (on the cap), the injector will fire in the correct sequence and the motor can be timed correctly. If the dizzy is installed correctly, the rotor and number 1 cylinder should be around the 1:00 position.

Edit: WTH. I can't post a link to sbf tech . com.

Go to sbf tech . com. (no spaces) and scroll down till you see "Joel 5.0's Electronic Engine Management." Click on this section. Then click on EFI DO's and DON'T's. Scroll down to Joel's second post on dizzy out of sinc.

Also, 180 out usually means the dizzy was installed at the #1 cylinder on the EXHAUST stroke. The distributor rotates at 1/2 the speed of the crank. So one full rotation off at the crank (exhaust stroke vs. compression stroke) results in 1/2 rotation at the dizzy (i.e 180* out). This is probably why you saw some improvement when rotation the dizzy 180. Since both valves are open near TDC of the exhaust stroke (overlap), it usually results in a engine that will not crank and a couple backfires through the intake. This is why step 3 in my first post is so important.

Also, it's important to follow step 4 in my post. Installing the dizzy at TDC usually results in timing that is very retarded. Installing the dizzy at 10 BTDC will get you much closer and make initial start up easier. Once the engine fires, set it to 12* if you run 87 octane or 14* if you use 93.

Good luck!

 

[Strype]

Actually, on Ford EFI, the position of the #1 plug wire DOES matter. The hall sensor in the dizzy has a specific sized window for the #1 cylinder (this is for injector firing sequence). But, as long as the #1 wire is on the terminal marked as #1 (on the cap), the injector will fire in the correct sequence and the motor can be timed correctly. If the dizzy is installed correctly, the rotor and number 1 cylinder should be around the 1:00 position.

Edit: WTH. I can't post a link to sbf tech . com.

Go to sbf tech . com. (no spaces) and scroll down till you see "Joel 5.0's Electronic Engine Management." Click on this section. Then click on EFI DO's and DON'T's. Scroll down to Joel's second post on dizzy out of sinc.

Also, 180 out usually means the dizzy was installed at the #1 cylinder on the EXHAUST stroke. The distributor rotates at 1/2 the speed of the crank. So one full rotation off at the crank (exhaust stroke vs. compression stroke) results in 1/2 rotation at the dizzy (i.e 180* out). This is probably why you saw some improvement when rotation the dizzy 180. Since both valves are open near TDC of the exhaust stroke (overlap), it usually results in a engine that will not crank and a couple backfires through the intake. This is why step 3 in my first post is so important.

Also, it's important to follow step 4 in my post. Installing the dizzy at TDC usually results in timing that is very retarded. Installing the dizzy at 10 BTDC will get you much closer and make initial start up easier. Once the engine fires, set it to 12* if you run 87 octane or 14* if you use 93.

Good luck!

FINALLY! Someone who knows what the hell they are talking about!


Thank you I will try tonight

 

[dcurtis]

I set my number one at around 12 to 1 o'clock