So I was at the local Ford dealer getting my Fusion serviced and started a conversation with one of the sales managers about the Mustang GT having 400hp and the V6 300hp. He said that sales almost stopped on the GT when the 400hp claim came out and now they can't even give a v6 away to a non gear head. Seems to be kind of bad marketing on Ford's part to anounce such a large hp advance premature I think.
New Mustang
- Thread starter sl03gt
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Bosko5.0
Active Member
Isn't that how it always is??? I remember when they said the 05 gt would have 350hp 
Give them a year the sales will be back up.
Give them a year the sales will be back up.
.
HankyGT
Member
6spds all around from what I've read.
Bout freaking time they built a normal mustang worth owning lol.
Bout freaking time they built a normal mustang worth owning lol.
They've been building a Mustang worth owning for years now. The S197 is light years ahead of any Fox4 platform before it. Who cares if its not pulling down the big numbers yet in the horsepower department...its still a superb car any way you slice it.
They've been building a Mustang worth owning for years now. The S197 is light years ahead of any Fox4 platform before it. Who cares if its not pulling down the big numbers yet in the horsepower department...its still a superb car any way you slice it.
The S197 is heavier than the Fox. How is it light years ahead? Oh, and it is ugly too, but that is more like an opinion.
Kurt
Heavier sure....yet it handles better, rides better, stops better, with better suspension/suspension geometry, stiffer chassis, more comfortable & ergonomic interior, better build material, waaaay better build quality, the list goes on and on.....
There's more to building a "superior car" than just cutting weight in the process.
If that's the case, then using your logic, it shouldn't matter how much power Ford injects into the new Mustang, its still going to be inferior to the Fox because it picked up a few pounds in the process of making it a better car?
...and if that is your logic, does that mean that the Ford Focus rules the Roost?
Besides...this isn't a Fox vs S197 debate (....again
) simply an answer to the statement made above about Ford "finally" building a Mustang worth owning.
HankyGT
Member
Yikes, sorry for the into to rantness lol.
No, I just meant a well built car that has decent power and a 6spd that's not a cobra model.
It's driven me nuts how long it took them to get a decent transmission under the car and even in 2009 the car is eclipsed power wise by a 10yr old fbody.
I guess they are at least cheaper.
No, I just meant a well built car that has decent power and a 6spd that's not a cobra model.
It's driven me nuts how long it took them to get a decent transmission under the car and even in 2009 the car is eclipsed power wise by a 10yr old fbody.
I guess they are at least cheaper.
It's just crazy to see how everything is evolved in the mustang world. When I was young I thought the 5.0 was the ****. What the crap, my 94 will get smoked by a v-6 in one year. I thought the 03 Cobra was awesome but 400hp na!!! What's it going to be with a vortech or kenne belle? 450 na with a tuner, cai, and exhaust? This wil be interesting to watch unfold. Now they are going to make a V6 worth owning.
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
Ford manhandled the v8 market with underpowered cars. I'd hate to see them get a little GM F-body luck when they up the power....
SlammedGT
Active Member
Isn't that how it always is??? I remember when they said the 05 gt would have 350hp
give them a year? in that time the ones for sale will be the 300, 400HP ones
You can fix all that other stuff. Weight is the one thing that's almost impossible to fix, unless you want a swiss cheese car. I just hate how all 3 manufacturers are totally missing the point and building these sled muscle cars. There is no reason for a Mustang to be bigger than it was before. I think the build quality is about the same. As for technical differences, it's still a live rear axle car with a 5 speed transmission. Not a huge advance there. The suspension might have a little better geometry, but it wasn't that bad before. The design of the new Mustang is definately a step back. In addition to it's increase in overall size, driver visibility has been reduced. They also designed the door seals poorly and had to bandage it later. You'll notice that when you open the door, the windows slide down just a hair to keep the glass from damaging the seal. That's one thing that's certain to break down the road.
All that aside, I'm excited to see that the Mustang is going to have 400hp and a 6 speed. I think it's necessary to compete at this point. But I'll never own one.
Kurt
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
Kurt,
I think the weight is coming from the car having higher safety standards. Not from physical size. No?
Are you really referring to the windows sliding up and down as u close the door as a "fix"? Maybe you know something i dont, but the mustang was "late to the party" to have this feature. It provides a better seal, one that can not be achieved if the window stays in place. Yes, its one more gizmo to go bad.....but any added piece of technology that makes something better is something else that can go bad. Kinda like hte sliding step boards on the navigator. Cool for a lease...not for a 100,000mile car LOL.
Mustangs were never known (since the 80s) for being HP contenders....why get caught up in that now?
I think the weight is coming from the car having higher safety standards. Not from physical size. No?
Are you really referring to the windows sliding up and down as u close the door as a "fix"? Maybe you know something i dont, but the mustang was "late to the party" to have this feature. It provides a better seal, one that can not be achieved if the window stays in place. Yes, its one more gizmo to go bad.....but any added piece of technology that makes something better is something else that can go bad. Kinda like hte sliding step boards on the navigator. Cool for a lease...not for a 100,000mile car LOL.
Mustangs were never known (since the 80s) for being HP contenders....why get caught up in that now?
I think it's heavier because of it's overall size. The damn car is enormous. What extra safety features does it have?
Kurt
Kurt
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
This is 2005 vs 1995:
overall length (inches): 187.6 vs 181.5
overall width (inches): 73.9 vs 71.7
overall height (inches): 55.4 vs 52.3
wheelbase (inches): 107.1 vs 101.3
front track (inches): 62.3 vs 60.4
rear track (inches): 62.5 vs 59.2
curb to curb turning circle (feet): 36 vs 38.2
6 inches longer(3 to the front, 3 to the back)
2 inches wider (1 to each side)
= enormous?
I was under the impression that the change from the fox body to the sn95 gave us more weight, yet more safety. The change from 98 to 99 was cosmetic. Then the 04 to 05 change was similar to 93 to 94...adding more safety.
I can list off safety features for ya, but do 05+ mustangs have better crash test ratings?
Seems like a lot of people agree the new platform is better than the old. Guess it depends on what makes the car better to each person maybe?
I think our car is a reasonable size for the safety features and performance. Well, maybe the factory performance was a little on the weak side, but acceptable. 6 inches of length, 2 inches of width, and 3 inches of height is a lot when you are talking about the same platform.
Kurt
Kurt
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
Well you started the response at the root of the problem...well errrrr disagreement
Some guys think the Fox platform was just fine....doesnt mean the 1994 changes werent necessary. Comparing the crash tests would reveal if the size provides it or not.
The first "joint" on my index finger is bigger than an inch, so if i go to my car and put that on each door, it doesnt seem that big to me. In terms of length, 3 inches in each direction can be looked at a lot, but where is it added at? Guess my point is that when i drove a 05, the size difference didnt stick out to me. Looking at them on the road, the mustang still looks nice and "tight" compared to the land yachts aka the camaro/challenger lol
Aw man….you just had to take the conversation in this direction again, didn’t you? Alright…I’ll play!
Especially when you consider a 5-Speed S197 clocks in at about 3,450lbs and my loaded ’87 LX Hatch only weighed about 150lbs less than that…the weight difference isn’t all that significant.
.....and yes, bigger was a necessity. At 6’3”, I don’t comfortably fit in either a Fox body, or an SN95. Sure I could tilt the seat back and get away with it like I did in my last Fox for 6-years, but I was always either look out the top of the windshield, banging my knees off the dash/consol, or elbows against the door panels and quite frankly felt claustrophobic in the car 90% of the time. And that was after altering the shift handle and modifying the seat tracks to lengthen their travel. Truth be told.....anyone over about 5’10” needs to make serious compromises just to drive the older models.
I hop into the S197 and its night and day. Everything’s in the right place, there’s not smashing my knee’s off the dash.....hell, I didn’t even had to adjust the seat back all the way and was actually for the first time able to put the seat in an upright position to drive the car. And best of all…no more claustrophobia
I also disagree about driver’s visibility. The visibility on an S197 is greatly improved over the Fox body. That huge front windscreen and massive side windows is a night and day difference compared to the tiny, obtrusive outlook on the fox body. If there’s anything intrusive about the S197 visibly, I would say it’s the tall head rests, but the rest of the car is superb.
Poor window seal design...ok, I can agree with that, but do we really need to start comparing flaws between the two cars here? I mean...I could go on for hours with the list of factory design flaws that my Fox body had. If poor sealing windows what comes to the top of your head when rhyming off the S197’s ergonomic flaws, then I’d say they did a pretty damn good job with the car.
Look, I’m all for you preferring your Fox body to the S197 based on your individual tastes, choice in style, need for nostalgic simplicity, or because the Fox was the lightest, most simple platform available, but please let’s not be delusional here and attempt to ignore the fact that the S197 to this point has been the best Mustang Ford has ever built. There is no category (besides those that can be judged with personal bias) that the Fox or SN95 ever excelled over the current S197 at. It’s just quite simply a better car. And to make a blanketed statement like “The Mustang is definitely a step back” even after taking into consideration the 100% improvement in all areas of the car since the last Fox body rolled off the assembly line, is quite simply a ludicrous and unfounded comment of a bitter man who doesn’t seem to embrace change very well. Be honest Kurt.....you were ready to boycott Ford when you found out they were going to stop building the Fox body Mustang, weren’t you?
And by “fixing all that stuff”, what exactly is it that you think you’re adding to the Fox body? Airbags, chassis reinforcement, increased interior room, a 3-link/panhard bar rear suspension, 18-20” wheels/tires, 4-wheel large diameter ABS brakes with dual piston calipers, 31-spline rear end, 6-way adjust able power seats, finally a decent factory stereo option and twice the available features and creature comforts offered over the Fox? I’d say the little added weight is a pretty good trade off.
Especially when you consider a 5-Speed S197 clocks in at about 3,450lbs and my loaded ’87 LX Hatch only weighed about 150lbs less than that…the weight difference isn’t all that significant.
.....and yes, bigger was a necessity. At 6’3”, I don’t comfortably fit in either a Fox body, or an SN95. Sure I could tilt the seat back and get away with it like I did in my last Fox for 6-years, but I was always either look out the top of the windshield, banging my knees off the dash/consol, or elbows against the door panels and quite frankly felt claustrophobic in the car 90% of the time. And that was after altering the shift handle and modifying the seat tracks to lengthen their travel. Truth be told.....anyone over about 5’10” needs to make serious compromises just to drive the older models.
I hop into the S197 and its night and day. Everything’s in the right place, there’s not smashing my knee’s off the dash.....hell, I didn’t even had to adjust the seat back all the way and was actually for the first time able to put the seat in an upright position to drive the car. And best of all…no more claustrophobia
You must be joking?! ?
Strongly disagree. Put engine modifications aside...since quite frankly the argument is irrelevant when you consider the numerous possibilities and combinations of go fast parts available for both cars, can you name one thing...just one thing that the Fox body/SN95 does better than an S197? Even taking into account the difference in weight, the S197 out handles, out runs, out rides and plain outdrives the previous Fox bodies and SN95’s before it. And that’s with the additional weight. If you can look at all those factors and still think that the Mustang took a step back in ’05, then there really isn’t any hope for you.
I also disagree about driver’s visibility. The visibility on an S197 is greatly improved over the Fox body. That huge front windscreen and massive side windows is a night and day difference compared to the tiny, obtrusive outlook on the fox body. If there’s anything intrusive about the S197 visibly, I would say it’s the tall head rests, but the rest of the car is superb.
Poor window seal design...ok, I can agree with that, but do we really need to start comparing flaws between the two cars here? I mean...I could go on for hours with the list of factory design flaws that my Fox body had. If poor sealing windows what comes to the top of your head when rhyming off the S197’s ergonomic flaws, then I’d say they did a pretty damn good job with the car.
But its not the same platform. Completely different cars. The only thing they seem to share in common is the V8 front engine and RWD configuration...as well as the "Mustang" moniker.
Look, I’m all for you preferring your Fox body to the S197 based on your individual tastes, choice in style, need for nostalgic simplicity, or because the Fox was the lightest, most simple platform available, but please let’s not be delusional here and attempt to ignore the fact that the S197 to this point has been the best Mustang Ford has ever built. There is no category (besides those that can be judged with personal bias) that the Fox or SN95 ever excelled over the current S197 at. It’s just quite simply a better car. And to make a blanketed statement like “The Mustang is definitely a step back” even after taking into consideration the 100% improvement in all areas of the car since the last Fox body rolled off the assembly line, is quite simply a ludicrous and unfounded comment of a bitter man who doesn’t seem to embrace change very well. Be honest Kurt.....you were ready to boycott Ford when you found out they were going to stop building the Fox body Mustang, weren’t you?
^^
Pretty much hit the nail on the head...
I had a 4cyl 89 hatch for a short while...and the difference between that car and my 94 are night and day. The same can be said about the SN and the S197. I think they are "bulky" lookin but the stats prove the weight isn't much different from the fox chassis cars. Just my .02
Um...now the issue is that Ford is talkin of offing the V8 all together
I understand the potential of the new eco-boost motors and their effectiveness will be great in these S197 cars....but why the need to kill the V8?
Mustang rises to the challenge
Pretty much hit the nail on the head...I had a 4cyl 89 hatch for a short while...and the difference between that car and my 94 are night and day. The same can be said about the SN and the S197. I think they are "bulky" lookin but the stats prove the weight isn't much different from the fox chassis cars. Just my .02
Um...now the issue is that Ford is talkin of offing the V8 all together
I understand the potential of the new eco-boost motors and their effectiveness will be great in these S197 cars....but why the need to kill the V8?Mustang rises to the challenge
Alright....now that its the day after, I just reread some of my last post and although I still stand by the points I've made, it probably came off a little more sarcastic than it needed to be. Sorry folks. 
