2.3L Newb

[fellamansteve]

Hey everyone. I've a registered user of stangnet for a while, but haven't been on the boards for a long time. What brought me back was I bought my first fox body on Saturday and it has a 86 turbo coupe motor w/ T3/T4 transplanted in it, among other things. I know nothing about fox bodies or the 2.3L motor (I'm a mod motor guy), and I had a tough time finding a forum with a good 2.3L section so I can figure out what the hell I'm doing, so here I am.

I took it to the dyno on Sunday and it put down 139 rwhp and 177 ft-lbs of torque on a Mustang Dyno. I'm planning get an intercooler kit from Stinger Performance at some point. It's going to be my DD for a while, so I don't want to go too crazy with it, just hoping to get to about 225-250 rwhp. Where do you guys find performance parts for these things and what are the typical mods?

 

[Red_LX]

Welcome to the 2.3L boards!

There are actually a lot of performance parts for these, you just have to know where to find them. You will definitely want to check out turboford.net, that's all turbo guys and there is a lot of very useful advice there. Plus, a marketplace, and links to a lot of sponsors that make fun stuff for these cars.

BTW, any idea what boost you're running, does the car have a boost gauge and/or a boost controller? Maybe I should say, what does it already have done?

Typical mods that people do right off the bat are boost controller and 3" exhaust. With those and an intercooler, you can usually run 15-17 psi, which is generally plenty to get you 200 hp and 200+ ft-lbs of torque. There are some guys that have made 300 ft-lbs on a nearly stock motor.

 

[fellamansteve]

Thanks for the welcome! I'll definitely have to check out turboford.net!!

Just a warning upfront, I should have also mentioned I don't know anything about turbos either, so if I say anything that sounds like BS, it's probably ignorance.

So in addition to the motor swap and the Garrett T3/T4, I think it's running an LA2 ECM, an EGR delete/simulator, and I think a 3" downpipe. I think the exhaust manifold is stock (I was told it was E6? Looks cast iron, rusty colored, and stock to me), and the exhaust is Y'ed with a high-flow cat and 2001 Cobra catback. It has the turbocoupe intake and VAM, and the SVO 55mm TB. It has a boost/vacuum gauge in a daul gauge fan-vent pod and seems to put out about 12 PSI max. It has a T-5 tranny that was mated with the engine prior to the engine swap. It also has an IRS out of a 2004 Cobra and I'm pretty sure the front suspension is all out of an 2004 Cobra as well (interested to see how the motor mounts for a 2.3L are kludged onto a 4.6L mod motor K-member). There's more mod info on the suspension, but I'm guessing no one's too interested in that.

 

[robbo1987*2.3*]

dude

your car sounds pretty nice you sould deff put down better #'s i think, well it depends on where your a also

mine put out235hp and 361 on torque( i still question the torque )
basically a stock motor ( see sig) it soud slike whomever had the car bfore you spent some time on it find a good tuner i have noticed that these motors are all abiout a goodtune

and awsome suspension setup are just as important as high hp setups imo

 

[Red_LX]

Fellaman, if I might ask where did you get that car from? I'm curious, because it sounds like it could be some Turboforder's old car.

Anyway...I am sure there is a boost controller on there somewhere with all that other stuff done. You may have a hard time locating it though.

This style is the most popular one that people use on these cars:
Price List

That's not to say that is definitely what yours has, but start poking around over on the passenger side fenderwell. Find a couple vacuum hoses that come off the intake side and follow where they go, and you should find the boost controller.

Anyway, turboford.net is a great place even just to read and learn, but there's a lot of very knowledgable people there so it's worth signing up (if you can-robbo said he's been having problems). Post up some pics too if you have any, I'd like to see them.

 

[fellamansteve]

I bought the car from a fellow terminator owner I've known locally for a couple of years. I think most of the work to the car was done during his ownership of the car (I know he had suspension put in because I remember I was pissed when he bought it because I wanted the IRS to swap into my cobra [previous owner of my cobra did a SRA swap]). He used it as a dd for 3 years, but had to get rid of it because his kids were getting too big for it, so he bought another dd and didn't have room for the car anymore. He did mention something about essentially a tuning switch, but he mentioned it was for premium/87 octane gas and it sounded like it was more of a factory thing than an aftermarket thing. I haven't really looked for the switch yet though. I haven't done much poking around the car, other than removing the old window tint.

 

[Red_LX]

The regular/premium switch is a factory switch. Basically it keeps the boost around 10-12 psi or so on "regular" and should run around 15 on "premium." (It's linked to the fuel you're running, obviously)

 

[fellamansteve]

I believe the previous owner said he set the switch to premium and left it there. I've only put premium in it since I've owned it, but if people are thinking the power it's putting down is low, it might be worth checking (Also, it was dyno'd on a Mustang dyno. ).

 

[65ShelbyClone]

The octane switch is partially dependent on the operator setting it correctly for the given fuel. "Premium" mode commands more boost(if the OEM boost control valve is there) and ignition timing until the knock sensor detects knock. At that point it dials the ignition timing back....a LOT. Setting the octane switch on "regular" limits boost to ~9-10psi and puts ignition timing on a conservative map.

Pretty impressive for 1982 technology.....well, that, and adaptive learning.

 

[AKA3Toes]

The octane switch is partially dependent on the operator setting it correctly for the given fuel. "Premium" mode commands more boost(if the OEM boost control valve is there) and ignition timing until the knock sensor detects knock. At that point it dials the ignition timing back....a LOT. Setting the octane switch on "regular" limits boost to ~9-10psi and puts ignition timing on a conservative map.

Pretty impressive for 1982 technology.....well, that, and adaptive learning.

---Nice explanation!

---Understanding (not you of course) octane would make your description more impacting, JIC future readers think octane is HP booster. Most people think octane is "go juice" like the bottles of additive say they are, but in reality octane is only a dilution which prevents ignition, making gasoline less volatile during shipping. If* water made gasoline less explosive in this way, it too could be considered an octane booster... whereas acetone has been shown to do just the reverse by sort of, agitating gasoline molecules. I guess, because I wasn't around then, making gasoline less volatile for shipping purposes had it's perks when applied to an engine, as auto/engine manufacturers may have found when they had to find a common ground/reasoning with those regulating/shipping, so octane would physically work with the auto industry rather than fight it. So, basically octane is added to make gasoline harder to detonate and requires re-timing of the engine with each change (on ours, where the computer doesn't adjust for fuel quality like most distributor-less would), so the switch allows for a second choice at the pump, without having to re-time.

---Where does this switch mount up? Scope plug circuit(s), w/a small resistor inline or something? It does sound like a nice idea and surely can be fine-tuned even for a N/A 2.3L and that would mean that I could wire in a multi position switch, for Amoco/BP/Race Trak/Raceway/Sunoco/Liberty/Exxon/Mobile/Petro/etc (Assume the Standard Oil Position), a switch for Wesco/Conoco/Phillips (which would be basically unswitched and a switch for cornahol... lol.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

---Where does this switch mount up? Scope plug circuit(s), w/a small resistor inline or something? It does sound like a nice idea and surely can be fine-tuned even for a N/A 2.3L

All the switch does is pull one of the ECU pins to ground. AFAIK, only the turbo P- and L-series ECUs have a provision for this. The 2.3NA does not, so they would require switching to EFI from a 2.3T. For that kind of trouble and expense it would be better and probably cheaper to go with a MegaSquirt. Then you could even implement a flex fuel sensor for running infinite combinations of ethanol and gasoline without having to change any settings.

 

[fellamansteve]

65ShelbyClone, what are your thoughts on an SCT Chip vs. Mega Squirt system? I have a friend with an old Superbeetle who was looking to put a MegaSquirt system in his car when he gets around to building up the motor and it sounded like it was pretty involved to install.

I've got my moneypit hotrod car already, so I'm not looking to squeeze every little bit of HP out of this engine. I'm mainly looking to get the low-hanging fruit.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Personally, I think the aftermarket hadnheld chip tuners and "services" are usually a waste of money now that it's not a black art anymore like it was as recently as 10-15 years ago.

The regular MegaSquirt kits are not plug 'n' play compatible with anything, but it's not exactly a monumental task to install it, either. The learning curve can be steep at times, but I don't see why it would be hard to use on the average even-fire four-cylinder engine.

The Moates Quarterhorse is an excellent J3 tuning option if you want to keep the EEC-IV system. Even the older adpters from Moates are good if you don't need the Quarterhorse's advanced features.

Just keep in mind that with OEM engine setups, it is rare that the shadetree tuner can improve on the factory tune. OEMs have millions in money and man hours to throw at these engines, so there isn't often very much left on the table.