ok my cars driver side ball joint fell appart the other day when i got to work and when i say fell appart i mean it came completely out of the control arm. ok now my question is my haynes manual says i have to replace the entire control arm but short of the junk yard no one carries a stock replacement, however they do sell replacement ball joints can i just have a new ball joint pressed into the control arm or am i going to have to hunt down a control arm?
ball joint question
- Thread starter thebullschmidt
- Start date
stang&2Birds
Founding Member
For MANY MANY reasons, there's a lot of incorrect info on this subject.
The FACTS:
1) The Ford ball joints are NOT made to be replaced - PERIOD!!
Gee people, READ A ****ING FACTORY MANUAL!!
2) But, it's done "a zillion times" by local mechanics. And, most have no problems. So, hmm, there must be something...
The reason:
3) There is a VERY high *CHANCE* that you can replace an ORIGINAL ball joint **ONCE** with a **MOOG replacement** ball joint.
The reason? Moog purposely makes their replacement ball joint "a little bigger" in diameter.
So, let's review:
You have a good *CHANCE* you can replace an ORIGINAL ball joint ONCE with a *MOOG REPLACEMENT* ball joint.
But, there is NO guarantee that the ball joint will fit in tightly and properly!!
To be sure/safe, some people/shops will carefully put a few tack-welds on the ball joint to hold it in.
ANY other combination gets involved in tolerances, and so on.
So, it MAY or it MAY NOT work.
The FACTS:
1) The Ford ball joints are NOT made to be replaced - PERIOD!!
Gee people, READ A ****ING FACTORY MANUAL!!
2) But, it's done "a zillion times" by local mechanics. And, most have no problems. So, hmm, there must be something...
The reason:
3) There is a VERY high *CHANCE* that you can replace an ORIGINAL ball joint **ONCE** with a **MOOG replacement** ball joint.
The reason? Moog purposely makes their replacement ball joint "a little bigger" in diameter.
So, let's review:
You have a good *CHANCE* you can replace an ORIGINAL ball joint ONCE with a *MOOG REPLACEMENT* ball joint.
But, there is NO guarantee that the ball joint will fit in tightly and properly!!
To be sure/safe, some people/shops will carefully put a few tack-welds on the ball joint to hold it in.
ANY other combination gets involved in tolerances, and so on.
So, it MAY or it MAY NOT work.
Wow, I CANNOT believe what I am reading! Total Misinformation here!
Firstly, the ball joint is loaded by spring pressure which is considerably high on Mustang front ends. When the tapered stud of the ball joint is locked into the steering Knuckle, the press fit of the ball joint combined with the spring pressure keeps the ball joint secure and in place. Apparently, this guy experienced a breakage between the stud and ball or the ball and outer case of the ball joint wore due to lack of attention. Either one of the above scenarios occurred and the ball joint separated or broke. And possibly when another bump was hit, it knocked the ball joint out of the lower control arm.
Ball joints are designed NOT to fail in normal use and can fail due to hitting something really hard or due to lack of maintenance or service in a timely manner ... that is it! As you may recall, the mustang ball joint is installed through the bottom of the control arm so it is always tensioned serving to keep it in its bore ... hitting a bump would only serve to hold it in its bore even with more tension. And as stated above, the spring applies considerable static tension on the ball joint, even when it is being unloaded after hitting a bump. So, it is virtually impossible for the ball joint to move around or just fall out of its bore. Either the stud would have to break or the ball & socket would have to give out first!
Ford has ALWAYS recommended replacing the control arms for some reason, probably to sell more parts. Though it is nice to have new control arms, they are not necessary but having new bushings and a ball joint in a geometrically correct arm definitely puts things back to factory specs for sure.
I have put about 3 sets of ball joints in my 75 Torino over the last 30 years and never a problem whatsoever. I clean up the bores with crocus cloth and grease the new ones before installing. I then put a block of wood on a floor jack and insert the ball joint from the bottom. Then, I hammer on the lower (outer) control arm right next to the ball joint and they pop right in without too much effort. A good sized hammer is used and the jack underneath serves as a solid base that supports the ball joint as the arm can be pushed (pressed) down over the ball joint.
Most auto stores do have ball joints for the Mustang. But, if for some reason you cannot find them, contact Summitt Racing since I bought a set of Atco Racing ball joints from them last year and put them in my 90 Mustang. As long as you have a press fit, then you are good to go. It should go in freely about 1/4 to 1/5 of the way by hand, and then the friction fit will lock them in there the rest of the way as they are pressed. Been doing it for some 30 years to many many cars and never had a problem whatsoever.
I would bet, if you get a new ball joint, you shall see that it starts to lock up when you install it from the bottom when only 1/4 to 1/5 in the bore ... if it does, your good to go! If or some reason, the ball joint can be pushed into the bore all the way with hand pressure, then you have a problem and then the control arm WOULD have to be replaced. But, I have never seen it or heard of it!
While your at it, you should replace the other ball joint, or you'll find yourself in the same situation shortly thereafter!
Firstly, the ball joint is loaded by spring pressure which is considerably high on Mustang front ends. When the tapered stud of the ball joint is locked into the steering Knuckle, the press fit of the ball joint combined with the spring pressure keeps the ball joint secure and in place. Apparently, this guy experienced a breakage between the stud and ball or the ball and outer case of the ball joint wore due to lack of attention. Either one of the above scenarios occurred and the ball joint separated or broke. And possibly when another bump was hit, it knocked the ball joint out of the lower control arm.
Ball joints are designed NOT to fail in normal use and can fail due to hitting something really hard or due to lack of maintenance or service in a timely manner ... that is it! As you may recall, the mustang ball joint is installed through the bottom of the control arm so it is always tensioned serving to keep it in its bore ... hitting a bump would only serve to hold it in its bore even with more tension. And as stated above, the spring applies considerable static tension on the ball joint, even when it is being unloaded after hitting a bump. So, it is virtually impossible for the ball joint to move around or just fall out of its bore. Either the stud would have to break or the ball & socket would have to give out first!
Ford has ALWAYS recommended replacing the control arms for some reason, probably to sell more parts. Though it is nice to have new control arms, they are not necessary but having new bushings and a ball joint in a geometrically correct arm definitely puts things back to factory specs for sure.
I have put about 3 sets of ball joints in my 75 Torino over the last 30 years and never a problem whatsoever. I clean up the bores with crocus cloth and grease the new ones before installing. I then put a block of wood on a floor jack and insert the ball joint from the bottom. Then, I hammer on the lower (outer) control arm right next to the ball joint and they pop right in without too much effort. A good sized hammer is used and the jack underneath serves as a solid base that supports the ball joint as the arm can be pushed (pressed) down over the ball joint.
Most auto stores do have ball joints for the Mustang. But, if for some reason you cannot find them, contact Summitt Racing since I bought a set of Atco Racing ball joints from them last year and put them in my 90 Mustang. As long as you have a press fit, then you are good to go. It should go in freely about 1/4 to 1/5 of the way by hand, and then the friction fit will lock them in there the rest of the way as they are pressed. Been doing it for some 30 years to many many cars and never had a problem whatsoever.
I would bet, if you get a new ball joint, you shall see that it starts to lock up when you install it from the bottom when only 1/4 to 1/5 in the bore ... if it does, your good to go! If or some reason, the ball joint can be pushed into the bore all the way with hand pressure, then you have a problem and then the control arm WOULD have to be replaced. But, I have never seen it or heard of it!
While your at it, you should replace the other ball joint, or you'll find yourself in the same situation shortly thereafter!
Based on what?
He initially stated the ball joint came completely through the control arm and only left a hole in the arm. Based on that info, replacing the entire arm seems pretty logical since a ball joint pulling through is not easily done and suggests a pretty serious failure.
We can only go by what we are told
Like I stated, the ball joint like other parts (steering) are designed not to fail unless severely abused or neglected during maintenance. Or else, many accidents would ensue all across the country (imagine the lawsuits against the manufacturers). Even the braking system and steering systems have built in safeing systems. This why cars usually do not go out of control. Because even if the parts start to go bad, they clunk, collapse, get soft (brakes) but still work. When this happens, the driver should sense that maintenance is needed even if they neglected such components during regular service intervals. But, once noises and components are neglected even though they are making noises or operating in a sub-par manner, nothing can keep them from eventually failing. But, they do get pretty bad from an operational standpoint. And when they do, they are pleading for repair/replacement which needs to occur to avoid a total failure.
Ball joints are very strong strategically mounted units on both ends and normally can only fail by stud breakage or the ball is pulled from the socket due to extensive sloppy (noise making - maintenance neglected) wear! Whether the ball joint base was mounted in the lower control arm after the incident is irrelevant since the root cause was/is usually in the stud area due to the nature of the design. Though he was not sure if the ball joint base came apart from the lower control arm, I knew what the only reliable failure mode that was designed into the ball joint as an Engineer had to be from this area.
Ball joints are very strong strategically mounted units on both ends and normally can only fail by stud breakage or the ball is pulled from the socket due to extensive sloppy (noise making - maintenance neglected) wear! Whether the ball joint base was mounted in the lower control arm after the incident is irrelevant since the root cause was/is usually in the stud area due to the nature of the design. Though he was not sure if the ball joint base came apart from the lower control arm, I knew what the only reliable failure mode that was designed into the ball joint as an Engineer had to be from this area.
Yes, just get another ball joint and have it pressed in and you should be fine. Make sure you have a good friction fit and it is definitely a press-fit. And, also, do the other side because it is probably bad also and you do not want to induce any pulling of the front end with a good and bad ball joint. Do both ball joints and check other joints such as the inner and outer tie-rod ends while your at it! A ball joint popping at 60 mph can be quite detrimental to you or another driver causing a major incident.
gtcobra302
Member
If you havent bought them yet get them online through Advaned Auto parts and take advantage of their online coupons. They are $123.98 for the pair, they have a coupon (BIG35, good online only) making the pair $88.98. Also they ship for free on orders over $75. If you can wait 3-4 days to ship them. A local store might have them, if so you can pick them up in an hour. I just bought a pair.
Good point, I just used the Advance site and got a starter and master cylinder then with 20% off and free shipping with limited lifetime warranties on both as long as I own the car. Thus, with core, they will be $149 for both units ... pretty good deal. And if either one fails, I just take it back to a local store or get another one online. Closest in price on the starter was LRS but only with a 90 day warranty (I think, maybe 1 year). Definitely, not too shabby!
And to think...a few years ago you were able to buy the Ford Racing A-arms complete with improved balljoints and bushings for $150/pair
ttopstang
Active Member
They are discontinued, but are over $300 if you can find them at all
79-93 Mustang Front Lower Control Arm Kit Ford Racing M-3075-A
I scored mine used for $150 for both side. Barely had 5K miles on them
ttopstang
Active Member
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