still teetering on where to spend the cash..

[90lxwhite]

Hey, it's me again. So back to the same ole delima, gotta fresh build not enough power gained so now I'm riding the fence between supercharger or a top end kit. I know the usual response is do the top end it b/c in the future when you supercharger... Well realistically there prob won't be an "in the future" due to financial reasons of course. So anyways sorry for the long introduction here's the question, is there one top end kit that is better than the others? ie, eddlebrock, or the trickflow or some other if I choose to go that route? And question number two is where would be best "bang for the buck" forced induction or h/c/i can't do both. I'll behaving both installed so installation cost is a factor also. Thanks fellas. Oh and one more so say supercharger kit is running around $3k right, and I can maybe expect another grand or more with installation and supporting parts?

 

[VibrantRedGT]

You can find used Vortech kits in the market place for affordable prices. With the supercharger you could always change the intake, throttle body and mass air meter this way the entire induction is complete. With the stock heads and cam it will make well over 300HP at the wheels with a blower. People are ******ing up Explorer Intakes for practically nothing.

The Trick Flow kit seems to make a little more HP than the Edelbrock kit. Either one will do though. Shop it around and see what kind of deal you can drum up.

If it was me I'd install a Vortech S-Trim, Edelbrock Performer intake (Explorer or even a Professional Products intake is fine too), 70MM Throttle body, Pro-M 77 Mass Air Meter, 36lb Injectors, Adjustable Fuel Regulator, Walboro 340 LPH fuel pump then take it for a dyno tune.

 

[Three50won]

90lxwhite...a used s/c kit goes for approx as low as $1400 to around $2000. But then you'll have to have the car tuned so add about $400 to $600 on top of that...assuming you're gonna do the install yourself of course.

A brand new HCI combo if it's matched will cost around $2200. So if you do the install yourself you'll still be in the same price range as the s/c. You might be able to find a chip matching your exact same setup or buy a mail order tune. But if you add the dyno tuning in then the cost will be the same as if you bought a brand new s/c kit. The difference is that you can buy used HCI components a piece at a time and install them as you get them. And you can shave off a good $500 to $700 if you shop around. Then of course you can sell your old stuff and re-coup some of your money. So all in all the HCI is the way to go if money is an issue.

 

[99FiveOh]

Put it this way, an S trim and a few bolt-ons can take the stock block to it's limit! With stock heads no less. Also, a blower will work with your engine just the way it is, no need for this or that. Swapping injectors and MAF is about the extent of mods on the engine side and a new fuel pump. When you get into swapping the H/C/I you'll be getting into more than you think. That 2500.00 top end kit will quickly turn into 4 grand in a heart beat, trust me. I myself was very happy with going the S trim route, the car drove like a stocker, made 425hp/tq to the tires and cost me around 3 grand when all was said and done (used blower, injectors, tune, the works!).

 

[Three50won]

NotA4.6, just to clarify...are you saying you put a used S trim on a 5.0 with stock heads, stock cam, and stock intake and made 425 hp/tq to the wheels? And you do this without any tuning at all except for injectors/MAF/fuel pump upgrade? And the car ran perfectly fine?

 

[99FiveOh]

If you reread my post you'll see that I did say I got a tune at the very end of the post. I wouldn't even consider driving an SN5.0 with a blower on it and no tune. But the entire bill was right around 3 grand turn key. You won't make this kind of power, be streetable and reliable with H/C/I at this price.

 

[Three50won]

NotA4.6, I did read your entire post. I asked that question because it seemed to me like you were saying the tune was swapping the injectors, the MAF, and the pump. Fair enough, my mistake. I agree that you won't make that kind of power on a 302 with HCI. However I have to say I'm a bit skeptical that you made that kind of power with an S-Trim and stock HCI to the wheels. Taking into consideration parasitic losses, drivetrain losses, and the integrity of a stock short block and components I have some doubts. No offense intended and I will say outright that it is possible that I'm wrong and you actually are making that power. But if we can keep this friendly then I have to ask if you have the dyno sheet to show it? Also, were you using an intercooler with it? Or maybe meth injection? Because you'd need approx 15 lbs of boost to make that power and those pistons probably, probably, can't handle that kind of boost without meth/aftercooler...

 

[VibrantRedGT]

425HP at the wheels with stock heads and cam? What kind of boost was it making on the dyno?

 

[99FiveOh]

it made 13 psi on the dyno with a 3.33" blower pulley, power pipe and stock vortech crank pulley for our cars. On the street it would go up to 15 psi so there's no telling how much more power it made at that point. Really makes me want to get another Vortech for my current car because the combo worked out well.

 

[99FiveOh]

NotA4.6, I did read your entire post. I asked that question because it seemed to me like you were saying the tune was swapping the injectors, the MAF, and the pump. Fair enough, my mistake. I agree that you won't make that kind of power on a 302 with HCI. However I have to say I'm a bit skeptical that you made that kind of power with an S-Trim and stock HCI to the wheels. Taking into consideration parasitic losses, drivetrain losses, and the integrity of a stock short block and components I have some doubts. No offense intended and I will say outright that it is possible that I'm wrong and you actually are making that power. But if we can keep this friendly then I have to ask if you have the dyno sheet to show it? Also, were you using an intercooler with it? Or maybe meth injection? Because you'd need approx 15 lbs of boost to make that power and those pistons probably, probably, can't handle that kind of boost without meth/aftercooler...

It's all good man! Yes it was 13 psi and the guy tuning the car is one of the best in the business. Car was rock solid reliable even in the hottest and humid mid Florida heat.

Here's the dyno sheet:

Here's a shot of the combo:

 

[99FiveOh]

Sorry to be a post whore but wanted to break down the costs of my blown setup for the OP so he could weigh the options:

$2000.00 V1 S trim kit with AFM Power Pipe and Vortech mini race bypass valve (I polished the blower myself as it was unpolished and that's what I do for a living)
$105.00 255 LPH Walbro FP
$250.00 42 LB injectors
$80.00 80mm Pro-M MAF
$135.00 Used SCT 4 bank chip
$200.00 4 runs on the dyno/tune
$100.00 Misc nuts/bolts/brass fittings/tap&punch/gaskets/little crap that ruins your day when you do any project!
$125.00 Aeromotive adjustable fuel pressure regulator (probably wasn't necessary, but I wasn't taking any chances)

Total for the finished project was: $2995.00

Keep in mind that even with a H/C/I combo you'll still need things like injectors, maf, fuel pump and a tune if you want it to run right in these cars. And all these items' cost doesn't change much when you're buying for a SC'd car or a N/A car.

 

[turbogt]

That's goes to show how much better GT40's flow.. I'm running a 2.95" pulley and only seeing about 10.5-11#

 

[99FiveOh]

That's goes to show how much better GT40's flow.. I'm running a 2.95" pulley and only seeing about 10.5-11#

Are you running a power pipe? What kind of numbers does your car put down?

 

[turbogt]

Are you running a power pipe? What kind of numbers does your car put down?

I'm running a UPR boostmaster power pipe. I saw a 1-1.5# gain when I installed it. My engine is untouched internally. I do have BBK 1-5/8" Longtubes, Offroad X, and Stingers on the exhaust side. I don't seem to be experiencing belt slip, but I might tighten my belt a little more to see what happens. I will also recheck all of the tubing going to my boost gauge to see if there's a kink anywhere. I have no idea what my #'s are.. I've never been to a dyno nor the track..

 

[99FiveOh]

I've seen combos with H/C/I and a blower put down as much or a little more than my combo did. Maybe it was just a freak or something who knows. But the numbers were accurate since I was able to bring shame to 60k $ sports cars all the time.

When I do it this time, I either want a 351w block or an aftermarket 302. And maybe a T trim. My old combo would barely be enough to edge out a new 5.0 GT!! Sad huh?

 

[BANGERSTANGER76]

425 rwhp WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I started I was only shooting for 300 maybe a little more.
But you boys make me want to go all the way in.
Told my wife I wasnt going to get hooked but that might soon be out the window. LOL

Banger

 

[Three50won]

NotA4.6, pretty impressive there...good job dude. I would have never guessed those blocks could handle that kind of power. Why did you get rid of it? The Coyotes would probably edge you out because they have much more than just raw power. There's a lot of engineering that went into those cars. As dar as your next combo, I def recommend going with a 351 block. I have wanted to do a 351 in a Mustang for years and I finally found my 95 GT with the conversion already done...got it for a steal also!! Let me say I am in love with this car and the engine. I'm finishing up just doing all the basic stuff to it, then I'm gonna swap out the cam, and then hit it with light boost while I work on building a 393 stroker!!

BTW, you must have had one heck of a good tuner to make a safe and reliable combination like yours. My bad for doubting you...haha, but just to nit-pick, you DID have an aftermarket intake...hahaha!!

 

[99FiveOh]

I had to sell because our family car (Escort) took a crap on me and the Mustang wasn't safe to transport 3 small children. I sold the blower first hoping to keep my car but ended up having to sell the car as well. Here's a vid of the car right before it went on the trailer (no blower):


what sucks is I had no video of the car with the blower I was going to pick up a 92GT for 1500 bucks after getting the money for this car, but by the time I got the money and went to buy it the guy ended up giving it to his son! I was so pissed because I probably wouldn't have sold this one without another Mustang waiting in the wings!