Restoration Project - Questions And Ideas

[blackstangt]

I think 25K gets it done if he does the work himself. 15K is unlikely if you do a quality build. I figure you will have 3-4K in suspension, 8-10 in engine and supporting parts, another 2-3 in transmission and clutch, and 3-4K in body, as the brand new fiberglass hood and hatch will be about 1K with shipping. Primer, base and clear will run 1-2K. You will have consumables and extras (oil, sandpapers, shop supplies, extra tools) for another 1K. Brakes, wheels, and tires... 2-3K I guess, maybe more depending on what you go with.

So,

on the low end...
3+8+2+3+1+2 = 19K minimum, assuming you do all the work yourself. This won't get done in a year unless you are a hermit who lives alone. Figure in at least 2 years of your weekends. Probably more.

I hope I don't spend 8-10k on an engine, unless I start from scratch or go new 5.0. I have a GT-40xe crate motor, I figure a rebuild, a little head work, some pistons, oil pump, upgraded crank/components would be the minimum. In the process, I would upgrade the necessary components (same or lower compression, injectors and mass air) to handle a supercharger or go higher compression. Either way, I would be relying on a tko-600, steel bellhousing, aluminum driveshaft and aftermarket rear components I already have. The rear components would be the first of the drivetrain to see mods. I'm also not building a showcar, I'm all about practical. So you can cut out about 1k worth of chrome. Unless the brakes I choose don't fit, one of the last things will also be wheels, I have 16" ponies (white, from 7-up mustang) with Fuzion ZRi tires, they perform really well and the contrast is nice on a black car.
Hermit? Just the opposite, when I start this build, I can expect to have help. Even if not, I swapped the drivetrain single-handed in 3 days. (military work-ethic)

I'm not trying to argue every upgrade, rather point out that restoring/reinforcing the chassis is the primary goal and I have a lot to work with elsewhere.

 

[blackstangt]

My engine from oil pan to air filter (inculding turbo hot and cold side bits) has about that much into it.

A solid, show-quality 'restoration' with good parts is $30k at a minimum, plus upwards of 1,000 man-hours of labor. I'd like to see someone that has done it for less with zero corners cut.

I'm not wasting money on chrome.
Good thing I'm not doing a turbo set-up then.

 

[blackstangt]

I found with estimates on home projects, they usually end up being twice the price after your said and done, I figure car resto's are the same. You always run into problems. So heed the warning from the other posts on this thread. Do you really want to be driving around in a $25K-$40K foxbody that is worth a fraction of that?

Understood, and since I will never sell it, the value to others is unimportant. People build race cars for much more and receive far less use.

 

[blackstangt]

I completely agree with this. I've spent probably about $7,000 on my car (doing all work myself) and I still have a lot left to do. Haven't touched wheels/tires, suspension, or paint and body yet.

I spent more than that over the last decade and therefore have a better launch point for my mods. Although that seems like a lot for your listed mods. Then again, the SSI intake is overpriced.
Equal length long tubes? The flowtech longtubes on my car are the cause of my ground clearance issues BTW, don't plan on lowering yours unless you change them.

 

[blackstangt]

This line of posts has become counter-productive. Any ideas for modifications, I'm open to suggestions. Otherwise...

 

[91TwighlightGT]

I hope I don't spend 8-10k on an engine, unless I start from scratch or go new 5.0. I have a GT-40xe crate motor, I figure a rebuild, a little head work, some pistons, oil pump, upgraded crank/components would be the minimum. In the process, I would upgrade the necessary components (same or lower compression, injectors and mass air) to handle a supercharger or go higher compression. Either way, I would be relying on a tko-600, steel bellhousing, aluminum driveshaft and aftermarket rear components I already have. The rear components would be the first of the drivetrain to see mods. I'm also not building a showcar, I'm all about practical. So you can cut out about 1k worth of chrome. Unless the brakes I choose don't fit, one of the last things will also be wheels, I have 16" ponies (white, from 7-up mustang) with Fuzion ZRi tires, they perform really well and the contrast is nice on a black car.
Hermit? Just the opposite, when I start this build, I can expect to have help. Even if not, I swapped the drivetrain single-handed in 3 days. (military work-ethic)

I'm not trying to argue every upgrade, rather point out that restoring/reinforcing the chassis is the primary goal and I have a lot to work with elsewhere.

Well, okay, but this isn't what you said you wanted in the first post. We are swinging back and forth between a full teardown, soda blasted, rust repair resto-mod and a more standard build up.

I don't want to be argumentative, but I am just saying that you are going to spend a lot to do it like you originally posted. If you forgo the brake upgrades (and associated wheels and tires) then of course you will be cheaper. You won't fit 13 inch brakes under a stock 16 inch wheel.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/771183-biggest-brakes-fit-16in-ponys.html

Seeing as how the engine upgrade is going to be a large part of the build, that is where a big chunk of cost is going to come in. New Coyote swap will be expensive no matter what. If you go with a crate motor you already have, then fine, but I imagine that motor cost you SOMETHING (4K plus shipping new?) at some point in time. As far as I am concerned, if I bought a used crate motor 5 years ago for 1K and put it in the car, I have to count that as money in the car.

What block does that crate motor use? I wouldn't want to build a high horsepower supercharged engine with the stock 302 block. You will likely need 31 spline axles with the right gears, etc.

We really can't base cost off of what is sitting in your garage, and again, that stuff does have a cost. All I can say is that I lined above what a real world expectation would be to build this car from the ground up. It may be even be low, frankly. Aluminum 302 engine block from Jegs...

http://www.jegs.com/p/World-Product...351-Man-O-War-Aluminum-Blocks/871587/10002/-1

$4,649.99 Plus $119 Freight.


My recommendation is set a budget first, then gather up your parts prices and see what you can afford compared to what you would like. Separate the list of parts into wants and needs, then eliminate the wants until you are at your budget. Make sure your budget leaves some room for the unexpected stuff, too, because it ALWAYS happens in these projects. I would say minimum 10-20 percent of a project budget should be unexpected (2-4K of a 20K build)

 

[blackstangt]

Well, okay, but this isn't what you said you wanted in the first post. We are swinging back and forth between a full teardown, soda blasted, rust repair resto-mod and a more standard build up.

I don't want to be argumentative, but I am just saying that you are going to spend a lot to do it like you originally posted. If you forgo the brake upgrades (and associated wheels and tires) then of course you will be cheaper. You won't fit 13 inch brakes under a stock 16 inch wheel.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/771183-biggest-brakes-fit-16in-ponys.html

Seeing as how the engine upgrade is going to be a large part of the build, that is where a big chunk of cost is going to come in. New Coyote swap will be expensive no matter what. If you go with a crate motor you already have, then fine, but I imagine that motor cost you SOMETHING (4K plus shipping new?) at some point in time. As far as I am concerned, if I bought a used crate motor 5 years ago for 1K and put it in the car, I have to count that as money in the car.

What block does that crate motor use? I wouldn't want to build a high horsepower supercharged engine with the stock 302 block. You will likely need 31 spline axles with the right gears, etc.

We really can't base cost off of what is sitting in your garage, and again, that stuff does have a cost. All I can say is that I lined above what a real world expectation would be to build this car from the ground up. It may be even be low, frankly. Aluminum 302 engine block from Jegs...

http://www.jegs.com/p/World-Product...351-Man-O-War-Aluminum-Blocks/871587/10002/-1

$4,649.99 Plus $119 Freight.


My recommendation is set a budget first, then gather up your parts prices and see what you can afford compared to what you would like. Separate the list of parts into wants and needs, then eliminate the wants until you are at your budget. Make sure your budget leaves some room for the unexpected stuff, too, because it ALWAYS happens in these projects. I would say minimum 10-20 percent of a project budget should be unexpected (2-4K of a 20K build)

I appreciate you coming back on board here.

The original post was ideas to build off of. I'm definitely doing a full teardown, blasted resto, but am willing to hold off on other things as necessary (like the T-56).

I have 31 spline axles/3.73s, sometimes wish I took that chance to change to 5 lug. Either way, even just beefed up Crown Vic Police (setup from corral post) disk brakes all around would be decent, I still have drums in the rear and the car stops pretty well already (once).

The aluminum block is 68 lb less than a boss 302 Iron block. I have to wonder is that's a worthwhile modification, moving the battery to the rear will have the same effect on distribution and a New 5.0 is only 1k more assembled.

I saved 50lb with the heads, 20lb with emissions, might reinstall A/C, can still relocate the battery, add a tubular K-member (~40lb), fiberglass hood/hatch, possibly seats, but I added weight with the bellhousing and transmission. With everything, the weight distribution (CG) should be lower and closer to the center.

I'm pretty sure it's a standard 2-bot main explorer 302 lower end, the new ones use Boss 302 blocks with a 4-bolt main. I'll try to use a flashlight to double check this weekend when I change the oil.

 

[2000xp8]

You seem to be very worried about weight, which is all well and good, but the mods that save significant weight are of poor performance value with the exception of the aluminum heads.
A fox is already pretty light compared to new cars.
It's easier and cheaper to add power to a minor bolt on car than it is to cut weight to make the car quick.
Hood is going to be $400+, hatch is probably even more and even worse it removes weight from over the rear tires.
Let's just say somehow you shave off 200lbs (which is unlikely unless you remove the a/c, PS, and sound deadening), that's a couple of tenths.
Now instead of blowing 2 grand on a k member, hood, hatch etc, you put that money into the engine, same 2 grand could shave off 1.5 seconds.

Realize this too, the good k members, such and griggs and MM (the rest are garbage as far as i'm concerned), are NOT much lighter than the stock k member.

If you aren't driving a race car, weight just isn't that important.
IMO, put the money where it counts, quality suspension and the engine.

 

[blackstangt]

You seem to be very worried about weight, which is all well and good, but the mods that save significant weight are of poor performance value with the exception of the aluminum heads.
A fox is already pretty light compared to new cars.
It's easier and cheaper to add power to a minor bolt on car than it is to cut weight to make the car quick.
Hood is going to be $400+, hatch is probably even more and even worse it removes weight from over the rear tires.
Let's just say somehow you shave off 200lbs (which is unlikely unless you remove the a/c, PS, and sound deadening), that's a couple of tenths.
Now instead of blowing 2 grand on a k member, hood, hatch etc, you put that money into the engine, same 2 grand could shave off 1.5 seconds.

Realize this too, the good k members, such and griggs and MM (the rest are garbage as far as i'm concerned), are NOT much lighter than the stock k member.

If you aren't driving a race car, weight just isn't that important.
IMO, put the money where it counts, quality suspension and the engine.

I was explaining that an aluminum block might not be worth it because I have these things planned/done.

Taking weight out of a light car makes more of a difference and the distribution of that weight is equally important. This will increase fuel mileage, increase the car's structural strength (k-member), and improve handling along with the increased acceleration. Lightening the car means that I can have a less extreme engine setup for the performance I want, retaining streetability. This is especially true if I add reinforcements to the subframes, compensating for the additional weight. A low Center of Gravity (CG) makes a car safer to drive as well, because rollover is less likely.

The hood is worthwhile because of its location and because the current one has a large dent in the flexible center section that would take a lot of work to flatten out. Even then, the filler could crack when I wax it for instance. I am a proponent of minimal filler, none if possible. The hatch has some rust on it, not worth the work to fix and lowering the CG with a non-structural piece is worthwhile. A K-member is about 40lb less.

 

[2000xp8]

I was explaining that an aluminum block might not be worth it because I have these things planned/done.

Taking weight out of a light car makes more of a difference and the distribution of that weight is equally important. This will increase fuel mileage, increase the car's structural strength (k-member), and improve handling along with the increased acceleration. Lightening the car means that I can have a less extreme engine setup for the performance I want, retaining streetability. This is especially true if I add reinforcements to the subframes, compensating for the additional weight. A low Center of Gravity (CG) makes a car safer to drive as well, because rollover is less likely.

The hood is worthwhile because of its location and because the current one has a large dent in the flexible center section that would take a lot of work to flatten out. Even then, the filler could crack when I wax it for instance. I am a proponent of minimal filler, none if possible. The hatch has some rust on it, not worth the work to fix and lowering the CG with a non-structural piece is worthwhile. A K-member is about 40lb less.

If you want to replace the parts because they are damaged, that's one thing, but like every other post here, you contradict yourself by saying you are doing it for weight savings and balance.

I've tried to lighten up on stangnet members as for my rep has typically been that i'm harsh and straight forward (sometimes in a bad way), but god damn are you making it hard, so that's about over...

You really don't have a clue what is and isn't worthwhile or how much things cost. You have had good advice here from well seasoned members, all of which you seem to ignore. You're budget is way off, the mods you are choosing are not cost effective, you are doing them in the wrong order and you have a serious false sense of reality of what they are going to do for you and your car. Gas mileage? rollover? lol.

How do i know all this? Simple, i've been doing this a long time, and have pretty much everything you can buy.
Simply put, you are building a 20-30k car that is going to get circles run around it by guys here that put a couple thousand bucks into their car.

Honestly, you should have never made this post, because you already know exactly what you are doing.

Good luck, enjoy your build.
I'll leave you to your project.

 

[blackstangt]

If you want to replace the parts because they are damaged, that's one thing, but like every other post here, you contradict yourself by saying you are doing it for weight savings and balance.

I've tried to lighten up on stangnet members as for my rep has typically been that i'm harsh and straight forward (sometimes in a bad way), but god damn are you making it hard, so that's about over...

You really don't have a clue what is and isn't worthwhile or how much things cost. You have had good advice here from well seasoned members, all of which you seem to ignore. You're budget is way off, the mods you are choosing are not cost effective, you are doing them in the wrong order and you have a serious false sense of reality of what they are going to do for you and your car. Gas mileage? rollover? lol.

How do i know all this? Simple, i've been doing this a long time, and have pretty much everything you can buy.
Simply put, you are building a 20-30k car that is going to get circles run around it by guys here that put a couple thousand bucks into their car.

Honestly, you should have never made this post, because you already know exactly what you are doing.

Good luck, enjoy your build.
I'll leave you to your project.

Having multiple reasons isn't contradictory. Weight reduction is useful, saying otherwise is ridiculous, I just gave some extra reasons. I'm restoring the car and making it the way I want, while some people will make a faster car for less, that's not the point. I'm asking for ideas, not opinions on how this is going to cost a lot and sit in pieces for years.

Since I've decided that an aluminum block and T-56 are not worthwhile, gotten opinions on which K-members are good, links to brake discussions, wiring ideas, etc. I'm glad I made this post.

Thanks.

 

[blackstangt]

Reading back, this is a typical example of why internet communication is flawed... Attitude, context and emphasis are lost, leading to a lost message.

 

[LX302]

Your right, but everyone is genuinely trying to help you. In any project, no matter what you want to do, or have, it all comes down to money. You even said you have a limited budget and other bills, we don't want you do run into a money pit. We'd like you to get your car running and looking nice without spending too much. We all have had experiences on modifying and working on our cars over the years and we like sharing what we learned so you don't make the same mistakes. So like you said above, take the advice of the others and build it up from there and let us know how it worked out with pics.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

I'm not wasting money on chrome.
Good thing I'm not doing a turbo set-up then.

I didn't waste my money on chrome either, and it was still damn expensive. My engine doesn't have a single ounce of chrome on it... anywhere.

 

[blackstangt]

I didn't waste my money on chrome either, and it was still damn expensive. My engine doesn't have a single ounce of chrome on it... anywhere.

The chrome comment related to "show-Quality" which people think of as shiny objects. Seriously though, I'm neither spending 30 grand on the car nor nearly as much as you did (you were suggesting 15-25k?) on the engine. Then again, It won't be ground-up because I have a decent chunk of aftermarket parts that will be useable.

 

[blackstangt]

Your right, but everyone is genuinely trying to help you. In any project, no matter what you want to do, or have, it all comes down to money. You even said you have a limited budget and other bills, we don't want you do run into a money pit. We'd like you to get your car running and looking nice without spending too much. We all have had experiences on modifying and working on our cars over the years and we like sharing what we learned so you don't make the same mistakes. So like you said above, take the advice of the others and build it up from there and let us know how it worked out with pics.

I get it, and while I appreciate everyone's concern, I make calculated financial decisions, so I'll be ok.

I made it clear what I want to accomplish; get ideas for modifications and get questions answered about modifications.

It seems less clear that I want to do a blasted restoration to make a streetable car that handles well and can break into the 11s in the 1/4.

Despite the modifications in my signature, people seem to miss that I have a TKO-600, steel bellhousing, aluminum driveshaft, aluminum radiator, aluminum heads, prepped typhoon intake, egr,mass air, throttle body, and rear axle components that can be used on this build.

To make the car go 1 sec faster in the 1/4 than it did a few years back shouldn't be difficult. That is why I'm trying to do it (at least in part) with things that will benefit the car in other ways, like weight reduction and structural reinforcement (for the 60').

Something like an aluminum block will not get me the largest reduction in 1/4 mi time, but I suggested it thinking that it was around 100-115 lb less (not 68) and because it would get me a better weight distribution for handling.

 

[2000xp8]

, It won't be ground-up because I have a decent chunk of aftermarket parts that will be useable.

While the trans and rear parts will work, those are NOT 11 second engine parts, i don't care how much weight you strip out the car.

 

[blackstangt]

While the trans and rear parts will work, those are NOT 11 second engine parts, i don't care how much weight you strip out the car.

I might want to swap the block for the rebuild, even though I've seen a stock block handle a lot more than I'm going to need. If I were to supercharge it, the intake parts and heads should work. Otherwise, I'm looking to increase compression and possibly displacement (beyond a 306). Along with tuning mods (Maybe Tweecer), I should be able to get the power I need.

If I don't get the times I want, the drivetrain should be good for slicks if I have to do it that way.

 

[91TwighlightGT]

I might want to swap the block for the rebuild, even though I've seen a stock block handle a lot more than I'm going to need. If I were to supercharge it, the intake parts and heads should work. Otherwise, I'm looking to increase compression and possibly displacement (beyond a 306). Along with tuning mods (Maybe Tweecer), I should be able to get the power I need.

If I don't get the times I want, the drivetrain should be good for slicks if I have to do it that way.

The stock block may live if it is mostly a street car, but I know MFE cracked a stock block with a pretty mild combination. I imagine that because his is open tracked, it sees more sustained RPM, which is probably what killed it. If you are tracking the car, then I would definitely get a different block. On a street car, you could probably take the chance with the stocker.

 

[N8Dogg98]

I think you should ignore all of the kind advice that has been given and start disassembling your car right away.... then everyone on here can say "I told you so"

Have a nice day, and congrats on winning the douche of the universe award