05 Stang vs new GTO?

Z28x · Apr 15, 2004

peyotesands said:
Ugh, this thread is giving me a f u c k ING headache.

GTO : overpriced 37k piece of ugly bland crap with 350 hp that can barely outperform a 28k mach 1 with 300hp..

$37K????? maybe for a Lingenfelter Supercharged GTO, The ones in my area are $32K-$33K and the only option is the tranny.

Sadly enough the GTO is a good deal, it offers a good amount of luxury and has 350HP (soon to be 400hp) for $32K. There isn't a new car on the US market that has 350HP or more and an MSRP of $32K or less.

GTO = luxury muscle car.
Mustang GT/Mach 1 = Bang for the buck performance muscle car.
G35 = GTO with V6 for same money

falchulk · Apr 15, 2004

What???? The g35 is not in competition with the GTO! Its a low end *** luxury car that has decent performace. Its at lease a half second slower then the gto and the GTO has better quality. I admit that I like the g35. Which one would I buy if I had to make the choice? The GTO! While its not my first pick of all 2004 models, I would not even consider buying the g35 over it.

Omegalock · Apr 15, 2004

It all depends on what you are needing to use it for.

If you will regularly be transporting several full sized adults in style and with some get up and go then go with the GTO. If you want a nice sporty 2+2 with a more agressive appearance and the power to back it up go with the GT.
I'll try to break the two cars down on what we know and what I think most people would consider as factors in picking a car.

Styling(I know purely subjective but I think more people would agree that the GT is more striking visually. For good or bad people have strong reactions to the 05)- Mustang

Performance-push. I say push because the 05 is an unknown factor it could run with the Mach 1 and thusly with the GTO. Personally I think the GT will be just a tad faster stock for stock and might have better skid pad numbers. I might also give the Mustang a little edge because it gets it's power on 87 octane gas a definate plus.

Interior-GTO. The Stang has a nice interior(REALLY nice for a 25k pony car but the GTO does have the better interior)

Pricing-The Mustang will be 25k base the GTO is like 32k. Even fully loaded the Stang likely will be a good 2500-3000 cheaper(unless it's a vert). Mustang.

Capacity. The GTO is a bigger car. It is a true muscle car so if you need to move stuff around it's going to be more readily done in the GTO as opposed to the Mustang.
GTO.

Intangibles-The GTO is more exclusive but the question remains what good is exclusivity if the car blends in on the roads? There are a TON of Mustangs on the road but they do stand out in a crowd( well to me at least they do). The Mustang is getting mad love from all circles. The general public probably doesn't even know Pontiac is even making the GTO again. I can't think of a more heavily antcipated vehicle than this new Stang. The Mustang is the hot new car and if you get one it will be the one drawing looks and stares from everyone and not the GTO. The Mustang is loved by America the only car that exceedes that is the Corvette. So Mustang gets the intangibles.

So it's 3-2-1 in favor of the Mustang. No bs there just how I break it down.

new22003 · Apr 15, 2004

The GTO has a nice package minus the styling. It just looks like typical GM front drive crap from years past. It Gets lost in a sea of inferior cars. They should have decided between sporty or more refined styling. Heck I almost drove by one thinking it was a grand prix because all I could see was the front.

99% of the people I have talked too dont even realize its something special. They think its another $20,000 pontiac knock off of the craptastic monte carlo. Heck even car magazines make fun of the styling. Car and driver called it a milk truck .

Im all for pontiac to have a rear drive v8 car. I just think they should have the had better styling. They got most of the other things right, the interior is nice, the ls1 is a great engine and they put a good tranny in it.

But it looks so plain and like a less expensive car. People dont want to buy a $30,000 car that the public thinks is a $20,000 car. You have to have the right look.

ttown · Apr 15, 2004

new2dagame said:
I saw the only about 18,000 Gto's are produced a year and was wondering if the stang was close to that number? but I'm

Well the Mach will be less than that for both years it was produced. how many do you see on the road and they won't be coming back for quite awhile if ever IMO and when they do it will be a totally different.

CatmanJJ · Apr 15, 2004

ttown said:
Well the Mach will be less than that for both years it was produced. how many do you see on the road and they won't be coming back for quite awhile if ever IMO and when they do it will be a totally different.

I see 2 everyday one DSG at the shopping center next to my house (must work there) and an Azure Blue near my office.

ttown · Apr 15, 2004

peyotesands said:
GTO : overpriced 37k piece of ugly bland crap with 350 hp that can barely outperform a 28k mach 1 with 300hp... it's a joke.. nuff said
...

Actually it can't even do that:

Pontiac enthusiast publication piece:

http://www.highperformancepontiac.c...0407pon_gtotest

After seeing what they are doing with the SSR I wonder how much that new 400hp goat will be? How many will they make out of the 18k a year, I can see the chevy version of the Cobra R coming. big $$$$$$$.......

Wylde · Apr 15, 2004

GM are become very gready and the prices for their cars are getting totally out of hand. Even if the GTO was available in Canada (which it is NOT) I would not even consider it. I did want an SSR before I saw the price tag, when I learned it started at $70k Canadian, I quickly became very bitter towards GM for lying to the public when they said "we will build this car and it will be affordable to anyone". The Solstice is the only GM car I MAY be interested in, otherwise Mustang is the one for me and most likely the winner of my purchasing selection.

new2dagame · Apr 15, 2004

so basically these two cars are gonna be close on power, the only real issue is alot of you strongly hate the bland everyday exterior of the GTO. Well obviously I now lean to the 05 stang again, unless they do some awesome things to the body of the 05 gto, hood scoops would be nice! even if grand ams have them too ps...on a sidenote I just saw a chevy ssr in my town and you want to talk about a 47000 waste of money! there you have it!

Z28x · Apr 15, 2004

ttown said:
After seeing what they are doing with the SSR I wonder how much that new 400hp goat will be? How many will they make out of the 18k a year, I can see the chevy version of the Cobra R coming. big $$$$$$$.......

I think all 18,000 GTOs will have the 400HP LS2, it is replacing the LS1. Pontiac hasn't put out the official press release yet so I don't know for sure. The GTO autocross concept at SEMA had a LS1 with LS6 heads/cam making 400HP.

For another $8,000 one could get a Lingenfelter 480HP Superchaged LS1 GTO
http://lingenfelter.com/superchargedc5_intercooled.asp

Omegalock · Apr 15, 2004

Z28x said:
I think all 18,000 GTOs will have the 400HP LS2, it is replacing the LS1. Pontiac hasn't put out the official press release yet so I don't know for sure. The GTO autocross concept at SEMA had a LS1 with LS6 heads/cam making 400HP.

For another $8,000 one could get a Lingenfelter 480HP Superchaged LS1 GTO
http://lingenfelter.com/superchargedc5_intercooled.asp

480 at the wheels or the crank? For 40k I think I'd rather have a C6.

Z28x · Apr 15, 2004

Omegalock said:
480 at the wheels or the crank? For 40k I think I'd rather have a C6.

480HP at the crank I assume. The C6 will start at $45K, I'd rather have that too. The Z51 C6 is my pick for best car under $50K, '05 Mustang GT best performance car under $30K.

It is good to see Ford, GM, and Chrysler coming out with new low cost RWD platforms. Should give us lots of options in the next 5 years.

ttown · Apr 15, 2004

Unless gas prices go down I think you'll see the end of the HP wars soon, just like in 1973. The insurance companies are killing everyone but the older drivers and it's high for them too.

Wylde · Apr 15, 2004

Insurance prices are getting higher because too many people scam the insurance for everything (including injury lawers). My insurance is cheap because I never use them for small things ($1000 or less). I fix those myself out of pocket and never even talk to my insurance company about it. A few months ago I had 4 vehicles fully insured and they were an 97, 98, and 02 trucks and an 02 car. My insurance was about $2200 a year. Got rid of the 97 and 02 trucks and I got a check from my insurance...CREDIT. Now I pay about $1100.

As for GTO vs Mustang...GTO looks like a Grand Prix/Grand Am and I don't like the looks. I love the look of the 05 Mustang.

skywarp · Apr 15, 2004

I don't think that even 18,000 will be sold this year. Last month they sold 706 nationwide and 600 and change the month before. This car is not selling period. I IMO think its the styling and price. It also doesn't help the auto cars are gas guzzlers.

Rootus · Apr 15, 2004

skywarp said:
I don't think that even 18,000 will be sold this year. Last month they sold 706 nationwide and 600 and change the month before. This car is not selling period. I IMO think its the styling and price. It also doesn't help the auto cars are gas guzzlers.

I've always said GM was going to take a bath on this one. They're entering a market that several other companies have already tried -- Ford with the Cobra, Mitsu with the Evo, Subaru with the STi, and now GM with the GTO. Ford, Mitsu, and Subaru all found out that the market is not nearly as big as they had hoped. GM is a latecomer, and they have the loftiest production goals of all. Good luck.

Dave

Z28x · Apr 15, 2004

skywarp said:
I don't think that even 18,000 will be sold this year. Last month they sold 706 nationwide and 600 and change the month before. This car is not selling period. I IMO think its the styling and price. It also doesn't help the auto cars are gas guzzlers.

That is because early shipments got off to a slow start, I remember reading only about 600 are imported every 3-4 weeks. Many GTO buyers are pissed by the delays.

They definatly arn't piling up on dealer lots. The 3 dealers around me have 2 GTOs total. One person on another board said there was a 4 month wait at their dealer. I guess the west coast is getting more than the east.

Rampant · Apr 15, 2004

It will be very interesting to see how the GTO thing plays out. I personally think they got a little cross-eyed on their goal. The great interior and large size = luxury coupe while the big engine/low mpg = muscle car. Muscle car people aren't going to pay for the luxury and luxury people aren't going to want the engine. Plus, you bring back the GTO name on a car that doesn't emotionally connect to the original car -- what's the point? Now, they are trying to rectify the situation by putting an even bigger engine that could exacerbate the problem. Sort of a "See...it's really a muscle car. Honest." thing as I see it. I don't think that is going to woo many people, especially if the price increases as well.

Add to that poor (virtually non-existant) marketing and the muscle car crowd waiting for the new Mustang and you have a recipe for disaster for the Monoro...err, GTO.

However, strong rumors support a complete redesign with a new platform that is shorter (height) and wider which is to be used for the Monoro (Holden), the GTO, plus the next Camaro and potentially several other cars over here. Now you have a more aggressive looking platform, built in the U.S. (so you can build in volume without problems from the UAW) and are able to offer a really nice product starting at a cheaper price point (from platform sharing) and create a wide range of options for the customer. And all this is expected to occur about the same time the Cobra comes out.

I personally expect the Camaro to take on the Mustang V6 and GT, and the GTO to be inbetween the Cobra (performance) and G35c (luxury).

All in all, this could wind up to be a heck of a next couple years!!!

skywarp · Apr 15, 2004

Rampant said:
However, strong rumors support a complete redesign with a new platform that is shorter (height) and wider which is to be used for the Monoro (Holden), the GTO, plus the next Camaro and potentially several other cars over here. Now you have a more aggressive looking platform, built in the U.S. (so you can build in volume without problems from the UAW) and are able to offer a really nice product starting at a cheaper price point (from platform sharing) and create a wide range of options for the customer. And all this is expected to occur about the same time the Cobra comes out.

I personally expect the Camaro to take on the Mustang V6 and GT, and the GTO to be inbetween the Cobra (performance) and G35c (luxury).

All in all, this could wind up to be a heck of a next couple years!!!

I can't see GM doing this. Lets say the GTO does fail sales wise. Why would GM go and design another rwd drive car with a V8 and possibly sell it for more money, when the GTO didn't do so hot.

skywarp · Apr 15, 2004

Z28x said:
That is because early shipments got off to a slow start, I remember reading only about 600 are imported every 3-4 weeks. Many GTO buyers are pissed by the delays.

They definatly arn't piling up on dealer lots. The 3 dealers around me have 2 GTOs total. One person on another board said there was a 4 month wait at their dealer. I guess the west coast is getting more than the east.

No way. In the New York area theres about 12-15 available. The rarest are the Impulse blue, Barbadoes blue and possibly the Torrid red. Its not that you can't get them, nobody wants them. Honestly the other day I was looking straight at what I thought was a GTO. But it was the last generation Grand Prix. From the front both cars are almost the same. The grill, fog lamps, nostrils etc. The only tip off from the front was the sideview mirrors. And the only way I know is because my friend has a black on black A4.

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