07 GT puffing blue?!

347strokin · Oct 23, 2007

Hey guys,
So I haven't drove my 07 GT for about 1 1/2 weeks due to the fact that I just got my 88 GT back on the road. When I went to start it, it puffed grey/white smoke for a second and then puffed a nice cloud of blue, then all was well. WTF?
I have read elsewhere about this happenning to others but it still worries me.
I've only got 30K kms on the car and I don't drive that hard. And it was definitely smoke not normal condensation.

kkdoughboy · Oct 23, 2007

When was your last oil change and whom performed it? Check your oil dipstick right away.

TGJ · Oct 23, 2007

If it is really bothering you, look into a PCV oil separator or CMCV delete plates...

Five Oh Brian · Oct 23, 2007

4.6L Ford V8's have a documented issue with oil trapped in the EGR or PCV (I forget which) pooling up in the manifold when a car sits for awhile. This is normal, and results in a momentary puff of smoke (mostly blue) on initial start up that quickly goes away.

I've seen this a million times when we've had 4.6L's sitting in our showroom for awhile, then started up. Didn't matter if it was an SVT product (Lightning, Cobra, GT500, Ford GT) or standard Ford product. Also, my 03 Mach 1 did it everytime I let it sit for a few days. My 07 GT is a daily driver, so I haven't seen it happen yet.

Our tenured service techs tell me not to worry, so I don't.

On a side note, my best friend is a Chevy / GM technician (20+ years). He says Chevy small block V8's do the same thing and that the fix is an aftermarket "pre-filter" that traps the oil before it gets back into the manifold.

TGJ · Oct 23, 2007

Five Oh Brian said:
4.6L Ford V8's have a documented issue with oil trapped in the EGR or PCV (I forget which) pooling up in the manifold when a car sits for awhile. This is normal, and results in a momentary puff of smoke (mostly blue) on initial start up that quickly goes away.

I've seen this a million times when we've had 4.6L's sitting in our showroom for awhile, then started up. Didn't matter if it was an SVT product (Lightning, Cobra, GT500, Ford GT) or standard Ford product. Also, my 03 Mach 1 did it everytime I let it sit for a few days. My 07 GT is a daily driver, so I haven't seen it happen yet.

Our tenured service techs tell me not to worry, so I don't.

On a side note, my best friend is a Chevy / GM technician (20+ years). He says Chevy small block V8's do the same thing and that the fix is an aftermarket "pre-filter" that traps the oil before it gets back into the manifold.

I had this issue with my 05 Mustang GT, I fixed the issue with CMCV deletes. It is the PCV system that causes the pooling of the oil on the factory CMCV plates.

347strokin · Oct 23, 2007

Thanks for easing my mind. I've put on 1400 kms since my last oil change and my level is fine. I guess we just have to live with these oil burners.

thump_rrr · Oct 24, 2007

TGJ said:
I had this issue with my 05 Mustang GT, I fixed the issue with CMCV deletes. It is the PCV system that causes the pooling of the oil on the factory CMCV plates.

I would look elsewhere since many of us who have twinscrew superchargers with no CMCV's also hav the issue.

My car not being a daily driver does this every time it sits a few days and does not consume any oil between oil changes so I'm not worried the least bit.

metroplex · Oct 24, 2007

Five Oh Brian said:
4.6L Ford V8's have a documented issue with oil trapped in the EGR or PCV (I forget which) pooling up in the manifold when a car sits for awhile. This is normal, and results in a momentary puff of smoke (mostly blue) on initial start up that quickly goes away.

I've seen this a million times when we've had 4.6L's sitting in our showroom for awhile, then started up. Didn't matter if it was an SVT product (Lightning, Cobra, GT500, Ford GT) or standard Ford product. Also, my 03 Mach 1 did it everytime I let it sit for a few days. My 07 GT is a daily driver, so I haven't seen it happen yet.

Our tenured service techs tell me not to worry, so I don't.

On a side note, my best friend is a Chevy / GM technician (20+ years). He says Chevy small block V8's do the same thing and that the fix is an aftermarket "pre-filter" that traps the oil before it gets back into the manifold.

The 4.6L 4V in the Marauder does it only because of worn valve guides.
The 4.6L 2V in my 00 Crown Vic has never blown out blue smoke after sitting "for awhile". The 5.4L 2v in the E-250 does not do this either.

If there's excess oil pooling somewhere where it can be burned off, something isn't right.

JTGrant · Oct 24, 2007

I have heard of others having this problem, it sounds like a valve seal. After the cars sits the oil drips into the cylinder. Then when you fire it up it smokes a little. This is okay if it only happens once in a while, but if this is happening every time the car sits then you have a problem. I did noticed however while installing my FRPP delete plates that there was a good amount of oil sitting in valley of the intake manifold. Some oil in there is normal for some cars. I have never had my car burn any other than air/fuel.

TGJ · Oct 24, 2007

thump_rrr said:
I would look elsewhere since many of us who have twinscrew superchargers with no CMCV's also hav the issue.

My car not being a daily driver does this every time it sits a few days and does not consume any oil between oil changes so I'm not worried the least bit.

I was under the impression that putting an oil separator into the PCV system would eliminate this almost completely. I have seen posts on other sites where that eliminated this issue. I noticed when I did the CMCV deletes that there was oil present on the butterflies. My car did this occasionally, it has not done it since the CMCV deletes went in. I plan to add an oil separator for both of my cars.

metroplex · Oct 24, 2007

None of our engines have PCV oil separators and none of them have spewed blue smoke during cold starts. If it is blowing out blue smoke, it is an engine issue (valvetrain) plain and simple. Letting an engine sit in a garage will not cause oil to magically pool in one spot.

The PCV oil separator is a good idea for reducing emissions and to prevent reducing the heat capacity of intercoolers in forced induction applications.

TGJ · Oct 24, 2007

metroplex said:
None of our engines have PCV oil separators and none of them have spewed blue smoke during cold starts. If it is blowing out blue smoke, it is an engine issue (valvetrain) plain and simple. Letting an engine sit in a garage will not cause oil to magically pool in one spot.

The PCV oil separator is a good idea for reducing emissions and to prevent reducing the heat capacity of intercoolers in forced induction applications.

I am well aware of the fact that the modular V8s do not have PCV oil separators from the factory. My car stopped puffing blue smoke with CMCV deletes. Others have stopped their car from doing it with oil separators in the PCV system.

Every 2V 4.6 I have pulled the intake manifold from had oil in the intake itself. The only way oil can get in there is through PCV unless there is something else wrong with the motor. I recently have seen a 2V with it's intake removed that had an oil separator installed and the oil in the intake was significantly reduced compared to what I have seen otherwise. That is the reason I am adding them to mine...

Metroplex, how many times have you posted stuff and be completely wrong? I remember about 6 - 7 incidents over at modular depot. Until you have this issue with your car and provide a fix for it, don't be quick to blame something that it might be...

Jenns01TA · Oct 24, 2007

metroplex said:
None of our engines have PCV oil separators and none of them have spewed blue smoke during cold starts. If it is blowing out blue smoke, it is an engine issue (valvetrain) plain and simple. Letting an engine sit in a garage will not cause oil to magically pool in one spot.

The PCV oil separator is a good idea for reducing emissions and to prevent reducing the heat capacity of intercoolers in forced induction applications.

Hey metro you may as well hold you breath on this topic. I have preached EXACTLY what you have stated in this thread to no avail. This ongoing issue is specific to the valve seals plain and simple. Even with oil vapor reentering the intake path via blow-by from the PCV it would pool on top of the valves. At start-up this oil is burned away creating the blue smoke. The oil will not seep past the seals while the engine is running or when the seals are within proper valve tolerance.

Catch Cans for PCV equip engines will assist in removing oil vapor from reentering the intake path. It is beneficial but unnecessary in a well designed engine. It is predominately necessary in engines that run under high performance conditions at WOT. Since at WOT the vacuum is zero, the PCV valve is now useless and blow-by is at its highest level.

Most of the catch cans run less $100. If PCV was such a detrimental design a catch can would be added at the factory as OEM. Installation of a $100 part to prevent thousands of dollars of warranty workorder would be a sound financial decision.

However, redesigning the valve system in hundreds of thousands of engines would be catastrophic.

TGJ watch where you are calling BS. You are incorrect here. How your delete plates impacted your blue smoke could be a single incident. I gave this issue to you in ruffy's thread. However, I stated in post 2 of ruffy's thread IT IS VALVE SEALS and it is. Be polite or you will get a holiday, Sir.

TGJ · Oct 24, 2007

Jenns01TA said:
Hey metro you may as well hold you breath on this topic. I have preached EXACTLY what you have stated in this thread to no avail. This ongoing issue is specific to the valve seals plain and simple. Even with oil vapor reentering the intake path via blow-by from the PCV it would pool on top of the valves. At start-up this oil is burned away creating the blue smoke. The oil will not seep past the seals while the engine is running or when the seals are within proper valve tolerance.

Catch Cans for PCV equip engines will assist in removing oil vapor from reentering the intake path. It is beneficial but unnecessary in a well designed engine. It is predominately necessary in engines that run under high performance conditions at WOT. Since at WOT the vacuum is zero, the PCV valve is now useless and blow-by is at its highest level.

Most of the catch cans run less $100. If PCV was such a detrimental design a catch can would be added at the factory as OEM. Installation of a $100 part to prevent thousands of dollars of warranty workorder would be a sound financial decision.

However, redesigning the valve system in hundreds of thousands of engines would be catastrophic.

TGJ watch where you are calling BS. You are incorrect here. How your delete plates impacted your blue smoke could be a single incident. I gave this issue to you with back pressure since that was the point of that thread. However, I stated in post 2 of ruffy's thread IT IS VALVE SEALS and it is. Be polite or you will get a holiday, Sir.

I am not the first to use CMCV deletes to correct this issue. I am not sure if we can link thread to Modular Depot here again or not. If we can, read my thread over there, http://forums.modulardepot.com/4-6l-3v-tech/88260-blue-smoke-issue.html. Everything from there points to the PCV system.

I am going to say this. I don't care if you are a moderator or not. Until you have one of these cars, with this issue and have a fix for it, don't be quick to blame something else. I know of more cars that have fixed the issue with either the CMCV deletes or the oil separator in the PCV system than those that still have the issue. The valve seals may contribute to those few that have still have the issue. Of all the boards I belong to, I have seen about 25 - 30 cars having this issue. They range from stock to FI cars, I only know of 2 for sure that have tried both fixes and still have this issue. I will 100% behind that until the numbers sway the other way where the issue is not corrected by those fixes...

Jenns01TA · Oct 24, 2007

Well then we do not agree on this point; however, we can respectfully agree to disagree. My status as a moderator has nothing to do with your ability or inability to disagree with me. I am just as approachable as any other member. Please remember that. I'm not here to goose step around. I am here to participate and uphold the rules. I prefer to do the former than the latter. But it all comes in a single package.

You may disagree with any topic, on any point, at any time so long as you present your rebuttal with respect.

As for the link - I'll let it slide as it is relevant to the topic and the purported argument.

stangdude2000 · Oct 24, 2007

TGJ, the difference I see between your other thread and this thread is that it is happening to you consistently, whereas it seems to be a one time thing with 347. Perhaps its a slightly different issue than you face? No idea though, I don't have any background in this.

TGJ · Oct 24, 2007

My car did it occasionally. When I started that post on MD in July of 2006, the 17th to be exact. It did it once between the 17th and 30th of July in 2006. The car doesn't get driven after October and again it won't this year. The car got worse this year compared to last, but it was still occasionally doing this, not everyday. That all said, I replaced the CMCV's 25 August 07 and the car has not smoked since...

Jenns01TA · Oct 24, 2007

TOTALLY OFF TOPIC

:OT:

TGJ - We may disagree on a few items concerning these Mustang, but one thing we are in ABSOLUTE agreement on is this comment here from another forum:

That is an awesome comment about Granatelli. Probably one of the best yet!

TGJ
Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
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TGJ is on a distinguished road

The thing I don't understand is why you would even consider a GMS part? Yuck, you could give me every GMS part as a gift and I wouldn't use it nor give it away, I would try to sell it as scrap metal.
__________________
1996 Ford Thunderbird LX:
5.0L Big-Bore N/A 2V, 4R70W

2005 Ford Mustang GT
4.6L 3V, TR3650

Okay carry on..back to the smoke.

07 GT puffing blue?!

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