10 second worthy?

EMW150

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May 22, 2000

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Roaring Spring,PA

Dec 2, 2004

#21

• Dec 2, 2004

• #21

ImportEater98 said:

10's is getting farther from my grasp.....but i'm glad there's guys like you on here that know mistakes before i learn them on my own. Those dart blocks are such big money aren't they? What about the "level 10" blocks are those as strong as a dart?
If i go with this route, i think i'll skip the juice, try and make 400 at the wheels and settle for a high 11, low 12. Thats about where i'll be at, right?

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With that motor and even a 100 shot you should go 10s. Not on your first pass maybe but you should be able to dial it in to the tens with some work. I wouldn't hit it with a 200 shot. Personally, I would go for the stroke because you can build it for about the same price if you're going all new parts so why not throw in the extra cubes. If you're planning on nitrous though I'd go with a shorter stroke than the 3.4 and maybe settle on the 3.25 stroke. That way you get a little tougher piston/ ring config and will be better for longevity for the nitrous.

 

EMW150

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May 22, 2000

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#22

• Dec 2, 2004

• #22

ImportEater98 said:

So if you dont' think thats a 500hp combo, than i would call D&D and tell them they are wrong. They also mention thier blocks are good to 700hp. I don't see how i can go wrong here.

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They can, do, and will tell you that to make a sale. Let's say you call them back and say hey this thing only made x amount of horsepower and you said it would do this, they'll just imply that they've done it with the same engine and that you must be doing something wrong. Same with the block. Say you're making 550 hp and split the block down the middle. They'll simply say hey we've done it, there must be something you did during the assembly.... Or you shouldn't be running solid motor mounts.. or about anything. They'll find something. You really can't trust the guarantees alot of these guys give you.

 

ImportEater98

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Mar 17, 2003

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Worcester, MA

Dec 2, 2004

#23

• Dec 2, 2004

• #23

I see what you all are getting at....don't believe everything i read. Understandable.....
I want to go crate motor only because i am building my car basically ground up, and i'd rather just throw a longblock in it when im done....not to mention, it will take some of the guesswork out of choosing a combo. Are there any crate motors that give more believable hp ratings?

 

EMW150

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May 22, 2000

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Dec 2, 2004

#24

• Dec 2, 2004

• #24

Not really. If you buy a longblock and set up the rest of the combo, you can work with it from there to reach your goals. Buy this cam, sell that one, etc. This stuff takes time and some trial and error till you figure out what works best for you. In my opinion you can't really put dyno figures on an engine unless it's oil pan to induction system and headers. Even then it needs to have the right exhaust setup and fuel delivery system, ignition system, etc..

 

bluevenom867

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Dec 15, 2003

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St.Petersburg,FL

Dec 2, 2004

#25

• Dec 2, 2004

• #25

Why don't you go with a 351W based stroker?At stock 351W block will handle 600hp with the right ARP hardware and not more than 250hp shot of nitrous.My mild street 357 (.030 over 351W) should go mid-high tens on a 125hp shot.

 

ImportEater98

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#26

• Dec 2, 2004

• #26

I would go with a 351, but i don't want the additional weight. If i stick with a 302 block i'll meet my under 3000lbs goal.

 

QDRHRSE

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Dec 31, 2002

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Dec 2, 2004

#27

• Dec 2, 2004

• #27

ET is not purely a function of HP. There are a lot of factors such as traction and vehicle weight. I'm not entirely sure that anyone can give you an accurate guestamate of your et without a lot more information.

I think that it is possible to make 500 fwhp with a 347 but not necessarily the one you that you are looking at and I doubt a 650 cfm carb is going to cut it (I could be wrong about the carb...).

If I was you I would contact someone that had a little more hands on experience with building 10 sec cars, and even offer up a couple of bucks for the 30-60 minutes of their time, and ask them what it takes and do something tried and tested. There are a lot of guys out there who would help you out- even guys who I don't really like! There are guys out there that come off as asses but will help you out anyway. Ed Curtis at FTI is a good example. He may come off as an ass sometimes, but he will help you out none the less. Just listen to what he has to say. Another good guy to talk to is Rick Anderson. These guys have built dozens, if not hundreds, of 10 second cars. Lidio Iocabelli at Alternative Auto is really helpfull too....

 

ImportEater98

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#28

• Dec 2, 2004

• #28

i hear ya i think i should definately start n/a. I figure i'll put together a 450-500 hp engine. Dump it in the car. Tune it. Race it.
Good point you make about getting the hp to the wheels. A 500 hp mill is useless if i am pulling 2.2 short times. I am going to stick with my suspension setup mentioned earlier. I may later change to a coil over front/rear setup.
Another member mentioned that he had a friend into the 11's with heads/cam/intake on a stock 5.0....probably getting it done on the short end of the track if you ask me.
As for a 650 cfm.....i meant a 750 cfm. I have heard that you take the cubic inch displacement and multiply it by two to get approx. what size carburator you will need. 347 x 2 = 694. Im not sure how accurate this is...but humor e.
Any other advice on this engine build? Is crate the way to go?

 

ImportEater98

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#29

• Dec 3, 2004

• #29

bump

 

BlackDrop50

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Dec 3, 2004

#30

• Dec 3, 2004

• #30

Sounds like my combo, except I have power windows+doors, and no tube K or drag shocks. Yes 10s on slicks are very possible however low 11s how it's driven on the street is more like it......


I would also be careful with the nitrous, like others said, you will break the block. I am running N/A only and have no plans to run nitrous.

 

ImportEater98

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#31

• Dec 3, 2004

• #31

Gonna go n/a for sure after the great info i got from members here, and some internet/magazine homework i know i will have to pony up for a Dart block to handle much more ya know? I'd love even a 10.99 all motor. Hopefully where the engine lacks, the suspension will make up.
DropTop, what is your best time with your car? It does seem very close to the mill i will be running in mine.
Thanks Guys, and keep the info coming!

 

hllon4whls

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#32

• Dec 3, 2004

• #32

Did a quick hp calculator and to make 3250 lbs (3000lb car + 250lb) driver calculates out to 630 hp at the flywheel.

Reversing that using 3250 and 500 flywheel power, looking at 11.4's.

This is definately just a rule of thumb, but it gives an educated guess on the combo.

 

ImportEater98

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#33

• Dec 4, 2004

• #33

Thanks for the calculation! Looks like i got a lot of work to do. Now if im a 250lbs guy, would you say that i could get the car down to 3000lbs with me in it? (2750lbs empty) Or is the lowest i can go is 3000 empty?

 

hllon4whls

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#34

• Dec 4, 2004

• #34

Mine is stripped, but I have never had a chance to weigh it.

 

ImportEater98

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#35

• Dec 4, 2004

• #35

hllon4whls said:

Mine is stripped, but I have never had a chance to weigh it.

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Hey nice video! How are you doing for 60' ft times? Car sounds down right hairy! Love it.

The only place to weigh my car (when its done of course) is at the track, and the scales are only open once a week to the public for a few hours. I know that weight and traction are just as important as horsepower, so as i said before, if i cant make the power i want going my route, i at least want some low 60' fts and a lightweight car.

 

04sleeper

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Jun 22, 2002

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Dec 4, 2004

#36

• Dec 4, 2004

• #36

A friend of mine bought a D&D Super Hawk 500 HP....Blah Blah...Blah..... long block. It dynoed at 338 RWHP. They ended up sending him a different cam and it then made 342 and peaked at 4800 RPM. Didn't make any more power all the way up to 6500? They use Erson cams .

So he spent more money and bought a Cam Motions custom cam and made 405 RWHP. . Too bad it ended up dropping a valve the second time to the track and broke the block, head and piston.

 

ImportEater98

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#37

• Dec 4, 2004

• #37

89sleeper said:

A friend of mine bought a D&D Super Hawk 500 HP....Blah Blah...Blah..... long block. It dynoed at 338 RWHP. They ended up sending him a different cam and it then made 342 and peaked at 4800 RPM. Didn't make any more power all the way up to 6500? They use Erson cams .

So he spent more money and bought a Cam Motions custom cam and made 405 RWHP. . Too bad it ended up dropping a valve the second time to the track and broke the block, head and piston.

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Holy Crap! I have heard enough! Isn't Ernson Cams Mr. Gasket's cheap line of cams? My word, looks like i'll stay far away from them eh? Wow that sounds awefully shady for a crate motor. Man, what do i do? I have no problem nitrousing to get 500 horsepower....so should i just maybe put together a stout 306 or so? Please help with some suggestions for a build. I have read so many reviews on heads, cams, etc. that my heads spinning!

 

04sleeper

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#38

• Dec 4, 2004

• #38

ImportEater98 said:

Isn't Ernson Cams Mr. Gasket's cheap line of cams? My word, looks like i'll stay far away from them eh? Wow that sounds awefully shady for a crate motor. Man, what do i do?

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Yes they are. He wanted to send the motor back and they would not do it. Then it broke and now he is out a lot of money. He spent $8500 to begin with and then after cam swaps and everything he was in the hole for around $10,000 or so with labor. Just the top of the motor was salvaged minus one AFR 185 head that could not be fixed.
A good friend of mine is Street Renegade Legend, Bart Tobener. He has been using Keith Kraft motors for years and has always had good luck with them. Even his record setting Renegade motor was from them.
How many record setting motors has D&D built??????

Keep doing research and don't give up.

 

ImportEater98

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#39

• Dec 4, 2004

• #39

does keithcraft have a website with thier product line?

 

04sleeper

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#40

• Dec 4, 2004

• #40

ImportEater98 said:

does keithcraft have a website with thier product line?

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http://www.keithcraft.com/new_site/index.html