12.5s, what do I need to do to get there?

Why do you have IRS anyway?

Well in the first place, gambling is preety dumb...I will NEVER race for money...racing is for a thing called FUN. ill race from a stop, or from a roll...the reason i dont like racing from a stop is due to me having the advantage with my fat tires and the results will be in my favor from my tires, and not from my power....I want to BEAT someone all the way with them NOT gaining on me. Watch all these vids of these TT cobras, TT machs, supercharged GTs, pullied cobras...ALMOST ALL of them race from a 40-60 punch...tell all of them they are street racing "fast & furious" style. The guy just said that he wants a car that will run 12.5s in street trim (and that means STREET LEAGAL, daily driven). There are 2 ways to go about it, all power or all traction....I like option c....a mix. BTW DK, your car is FAST no mater what kind of trim its in LOL, 12.2s is nothing to take lightly, and glad to see that your not gutted, but i do take it that your car is not a DD.

hotmustang331 said:

Sarcastic LOL, all 99-04s came with PIs. The only way your gonna get 12.5s N/A is by getting some MPH stg 3 race heads, MPH custom cams, forged SB with 10.1-1 compression (RPMs should be in the 7200RPMS range...I wouldnt do that on the stock SB), and LTs, O/R X, electric waterpump, upper plenum, 75MM TB, and a decent plastic CAI. (it will help more on a motor like that since it will be pulling ALOT more air then stock)....You should have 320-330 RWHP pretty easy with that setup, and MAY go into the 11s with slicks and some weight reduction...I know a guy with 340RWHP auto LS1 and he ran a 12.3 @ 109 or 111 on DRs. On street tires or Drs, you should be able to hit that 12.5 and trap a good 110.

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WTF? I love how you list all this pricey buzz word hardware, then...add "and a decent plastic CAI".
You obviously have no idea of what you are talking about.

if you seriously want to run 12's then the cheapest fastest route is nitrous. all motor will be expensive, you would need head work, cams and every bolt on possible to get there with a 2v street car for mid 12's.

read and absorb like a sponge. this info will help you no matter what way you decide to get into the 12s.

5 Components to a 12 second NA GT

hotmustang331 said:

Well in the first place, gambling is preety dumb...I will NEVER race for money...racing is for a thing called FUN. ill race from a stop, or from a roll...the reason i dont like racing from a stop is due to me having the advantage with my fat tires and the results will be in my favor from my tires, and not from my power....I want to BEAT someone all the way with them NOT gaining on me. Watch all these vids of these TT cobras, TT machs, supercharged GTs, pullied cobras...ALMOST ALL of them race from a 40-60 punch...tell all of them they are street racing "fast & furious" style. The guy just said that he wants a car that will run 12.5s in street trim (and that means STREET LEAGAL, daily driven). There are 2 ways to go about it, all power or all traction....I like option c....a mix. BTW DK, your car is FAST no mater what kind of trim its in LOL, 12.2s is nothing to take lightly, and glad to see that your not gutted, but i do take it that your car is not a DD.

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May I first say that I have absolutely no desire to start a flame war. I have moderated forums in the past, and they suck. </disclaimer>

Secondly, hotmustang, you seem to have this black and white view of racing. It's not all torque & launch vs. horsepower. What is key is your power curve and how your car is tuned.

Tyler: There are many ways to get your car down into the 12s. Some are more expensive than others, but in the end I'd suggest that you really think where you want to end up with this car. Planning is very, very important. There are many different routes to take, and I am by no means bashing any of them. Whatever gets you from the tree to the finish line gets you there - regardless of people's ideological feelings on the issue.

Aside from the usual (intake, exhaust, gears)...well, actually, let me back up. I was looking at your mods and didn't see headers. In my opinion, they are a must. I'm starting to find that long tube headers with good scavenging affects work well with the modular motor. (I'm a recent GM convert, so go easy on me. ) Since you already have the gears, some sticky tires can't hurt. Highway racing or not, why wouldn't you want to have good launches? Also, while you don't need subframe connectors...they can't hurt, especially if you plan on launching hard (or eventually going for faster than mid 12s). But, they probably aren't necessary at this stage.

I'm also finding that there is a lot of room for improvement (in a good way) in the stock block. Compression is low (9.0:1) origionally...getting that above 10:1 would be a goal of mine. And I'm no expert on cam settings, timing, or the like - especially in Mustangs - but in my Camaro we pulled an extra 75 rwhp with a new cam, intake, carb, and tune (with premium gas) alone. In newer cars, like the LS1s some of my friends have, normally aspirated 11s aren't too hard to achieve with a minor engine rebuild and traction.

Basically what I'm saying is that while I haven't decided on the specifics (I do a lot of research before doing anything), replacing certain internals - intake manifold, throttlebody, cams, heads - to name a few, might get you close to your goal with good launches and a good tune. If you plan on going forced induction later, you may want to look at forged pistons and such. Even if you don't have the $$ for a super/turbocharger right now, at least you've set yourself up for it AND gained a lot of power.

I am not a huge nitrous fan, and I don't think I will use it until I've done all of the above and gone forced induction. It would be the last thing I'd do, just for that extra umph.

To sum it up, I really doubt you need a power adder to see 12s.

P.S. I really like that comment about the driver being the best mod.

Hotmustang331- first off you say gambling is dumb.....what do you call street racing...that is just gambling with the cops. And you say street legal when your car isn't street legal to begin with. An off road mid pipe takes care of that. You are just as illegal as anyone else. A real race is from a stop and at a track. On the street is dangerous enough as it is but guys want to race from 70 mph to 130mph. I just consider that a race. A race involves two drivers and the best driver and car wins. In a race from a roll there is no driver that is going to beat the other but rather just the car. Kind of takes the point out of racing. Sure it is nice to know you have more power then someone else but it is even better feeling knowing you just beat a car that has more power than you...dont' ya think. Not trying to bash just trying to justify a point.

hotmustang331 said:

Im sorry, but to me, a REAL mid-low 12 second car is about the trap, and real power....not launching at 6500RPMS and pull a 12.5 @ 102 LOL. If that what he wants then yea you dont need all that, but you will still get RAPED on the highway buy a lightly modded LS1. My way, you would run EASY low 12s and murder all but the fastest LS1s on the highway. i just worded that wrong...YOU CAN HIT 12s ON THE STOCK HEADS AND INTAKE. You just got to rev like mad and launch at HIGH rpms and risk tearing up things....But any blower 2V will still rip you a new one one the highway, and have all his interior and stock tires. N/A is a waste IMO, sure you can pull 12s but you WILL NOT do it at full weight...DK your raceweight is just over 3100 pounds, our race weight is over 3500pounds. Otherwise with fullweight, you wouldnt be much faster than anyone else. Sorry, but gutting a car and running skinnys is just a track queen, and on the street in street trim you wont run like that, espically at a race weight of 3500. My time was run at full weight and on my street tires...my time is what i REALLY run on the street.

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what a douche bag. at 3600lbs launching at 4500 rpms in my vert with only a midpipe, off the shelf chip, 4.10s, pullies and plenum and tb...untuned i went 12.9....in ****ty weather....

learn to drive your **** box

oh yeah forgot about the tire bull****. 16x8 bullits in the back with et streets and 17x8s up front on the stock suspension. With good weather in a coupe and my exact set up they are mid 12 second cars all day long

Jackie Chan said:

what a douche bag. at 3600lbs launching at 4500 rpms in my vert with only a midpipe, off the shelf chip, 4.10s, pullies and plenum and tb...untuned i went 12.9....in ****ty weather....

learn to drive your **** box

oh yeah forgot about the tire bull****. 16x8 bullits in the back with et streets and 17x8s up front on the stock suspension. With good weather in a coupe and my exact set up they are mid 12 second cars all day long

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The Jackie factor has arrived! Thanks John, for telling it like it is.

Alright...I admit that I wanted to be a little bit harsher. Thanks for saying some of that stuff for me!

P.S. I forgot to mention also that this thread is really to help Tyler (tvanlant), and that's one of the reasons I restrained from the flames.

I wasn't given this handle by my friends for no reason.

WHAT? You guys are idiots, if anything its all of you with a black and white view of racing....THATS YOUR OPINION THAT RACING IS FROM A STOP! I would rather say I beat someone, knowing it was my power, instead of beacause I had 315 DRs and the other guy had skinny stock tires and couldnt drive. thats retared, like one of you competing in the special olympics and actually being happy when you win. And Jon, I thought you were pretty smart, but now....your a freegin retard...12.9s to 12.5s is NOT an easy task, not nearly as simple as going from 13.9-13.5 or 14.9-14.5. the faster you go, the harder it is to improve your time, you of all people should know that. The problem with you guys is that your narrow minded, and think the best way to run mid 12s is by all out traction and spending the least possable...some people actually have a different opinion on how to get there, and sorry, my way IS NOT THE ONLY WAY. And no offence to anyone, but you guys started this and started calling me names just because I voiced my opinion on how to do it, and wrongly worded what i was trying to say. Guess that shows your immaturity. I hate it when people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, and they think they are God and know everything. BTW, the starter of this thread said he wants to hit mid 12s with power and good traction (DRs), NOT all traction and weight reduction (so i win LOL)....and again, I simply prefer to get to my goals by a nice mix of power and traction...not by an extreme of one way or the other. Thanks, and no hard feelings. BTW Mr chan, I pull 1.90 60s...I think I drive pretty well...and thats all that matters.

hotmustang331 said:

WHAT? You guys are idiots, if anything its all of you with a black and white view of racing....THATS YOUR OPINION THAT RACING IS FROM A STOP! I would rather say I beat someone, knowing it was my power, instead of beacause I had 315 DRs and the other guy had skinny stock tires and couldnt drive. thats retared, like one of you competing in the special olympics and actually being happy when you win. And Jon, I thought you were pretty smart, but now....your a freegin retard...12.9s to 12.5s is NOT an easy task, not nearly as simple as going from 13.9-13.5 or 14.9-14.5. the faster you go, the harder it is to improve your time, you of all people should know that. The problem with you guys is that your narrow minded, and think the best way to run mid 12s is by all out traction and spending the least possable...some people actually have a different opinion on how to get there, and sorry, my way IS NOT THE ONLY WAY. And no offence to anyone, but you guys started this and started calling me names just because I voiced my opinion on how to do it, and wrongly worded what i was trying to say. Guess that shows your immaturity. I hate it when people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, and they think they are God and know everything. BTW, the starter of this thread said he wants to hit mid 12s with power and good traction (DRs), NOT all traction and weight reduction (so i win LOL)....and again, I simply prefer to get to my goals by a nice mix of power and traction...not by an extreme of one way or the other. Thanks, and no hard feelings. BTW Mr chan, I pull 1.90 60s...I think I drive pretty well...and thats all that matters.

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Mabey you need to re-read the title. The guy asked how does he neet to get to 12.50. Last time I checked, you accomplish that by going to a drag strip and facing from a stop. If you want to race from a roll, that is your problem. I hope you do not injur anyone with your stupidity.

hotmustang331 said:

WHAT? You guys are idiots, if anything its all of you with a black and white view of racing....THATS YOUR OPINION THAT RACING IS FROM A STOP! I would rather say I beat someone, knowing it was my power, instead of beacause I had 315 DRs and the other guy had skinny stock tires and couldnt drive. thats retared, like one of you competing in the special olympics and actually being happy when you win. And Jon, I thought you were pretty smart, but now....your a freegin retard...12.9s to 12.5s is NOT an easy task, not nearly as simple as going from 13.9-13.5 or 14.9-14.5. the faster you go, the harder it is to improve your time, you of all people should know that. The problem with you guys is that your narrow minded, and think the best way to run mid 12s is by all out traction and spending the least possable...some people actually have a different opinion on how to get there, and sorry, my way IS NOT THE ONLY WAY. And no offence to anyone, but you guys started this and started calling me names just because I voiced my opinion on how to do it, and wrongly worded what i was trying to say. Guess that shows your immaturity. I hate it when people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, and they think they are God and know everything. BTW, the starter of this thread said he wants to hit mid 12s with power and good traction (DRs), NOT all traction and weight reduction (so i win LOL)....and again, I simply prefer to get to my goals by a nice mix of power and traction...not by an extreme of one way or the other. Thanks, and no hard feelings. BTW Mr chan, I pull 1.90 60s...I think I drive pretty well...and thats all that matters.

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No offense bro, but what happened to the old saying run what you brung? Look at my HP and TQ #'s vise my best time under my avatar. With my #'s I should be in the mid 11's all day EASILY! Power is useless without a way to get it to the ground. If I were to get some MT's, I'd have an 11 sec timeslip.

^ Im all for run what you brung, the above is simply my opinion. Like I said, I like a mix of power and traction if I could, but i would take 600RWHP and 0 traction over 400RWHP and a ton of traction...Im just not ALL about 1/4 mile times thats all. You and I know you have a FAST car, and IMO you dont need an 11 sec time slip to prove that...everyone knows it by your RWHP #s. Ill race anyone from a stop or from a roll, and preferably would like to beat them both ways, not just 1. However, if I were to pick one I would rather be able to win from a roll...but I guess thats just me. I hope none takes my views of racing either way wrong, I just dont like the people that will ONLY race from a stop, or ONLY from a roll, to give them the advantage. thats all im trying to say, not that one way is better than the the other, as each shows the car and drivers "better" sides.

I hear ya. to each his own. Nothing wrong with having a street terror, that you can throw some good DOT slicks on and run good at the track.

Racing from a roll is dumb. That is my opinion!

Look at the title of the thread.

Black2001GT said:

Racing from a roll is dumb. That is my opinion!

Look at the title of the thread.

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Agreed! What kind of race is that??? Re-read the original post. If he's looking for 12.5's, I don't think the rolling start is part of that package. Where are these tracks that have rolling starts anyway?

hotmustang331 said:

No offence to anyone, You guys are idiots

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Gosh, umm, no offense taken. And, no offense, but you're a dick.

hotmustang331 said:

All of you with a black and white view of racing....THATS YOUR OPINION THAT RACING IS FROM A STOP!

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That is what drag racing is!!! From the Encyclopedia Britannica: Drag Racing - form of motor racing that originated in the United States and in which two contestants race from a standing start side by side on a drag strip—a flat, straight course

hotmustang331 said:

thats retared, like one of you competing in the special olympics and actually being happy when you win.

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Sooo, from a standing start is retarded, but a rolling start is your kind of racing? A true 12.5 is a true 12.5, retarded or not.

hotmustang331 said:

And Jon, I thought you were pretty smart, but now....your a freegin retard...12.9s to 12.5s is NOT an easy task - you of all people should know that.

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How would you know it's not an easy task? Look, John can defend himself all day, but I believe his point was he took his nearly stock vert to a 12.9. Do you really feel that another 4 tenths is insurmountable?

hotmustang331 said:

And secondly, The problem with you guys is that your narrow minded, and think the best way to run mid 12s is by all out traction and spending the least possable...some people actually have a different opinion on how to get there, and sorry, my way IS NOT THE ONLY WAY.

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True, going the cheap way is not the only way, but you seem to have a problem with it - why? Most of us have a budget. Getting into the 12's as cheaply as possible is, for most people, the only way they can get into the 12's. If money were no object, 12's wouldn't be a big deal.

hotmustang331 said:

And , but you guys started this and started calling me names just because I voiced my opinion on how to do it, and wrongly worded what i was trying to say. Guess that shows your immaturity.

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Jesus, do you think before you speak? Everyone else is immature...and you base this on, "you guys started this and started calling me names..."?

hotmustang331 said:

so i win LOL

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Mr. Maturity strikes again

hotmustang331 said:

and again, I simply prefer to get to my goals by a nice mix of power and traction...not by an extreme of one way or the other.

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Duh! Maybe I missed it, but did someone say all you need is power or traction? Of course it's a mix of the two. All the power in the world won't get you there, neither will all the traction in the world. I doubt you open anyones' eyes with that statement.

Its sad when people have to take quotes individually to make a point and take things out of context. You sound like a little baby, whining about every little thing is say LOL. And who died and made you the Mr know it all? that last post again shows your imaturity, I was trying to be as nice as I could...( i even stated the obvious of AGAIN how I would get 12.5s...and my problem with getting 12.5s by means of slicks and a few boltons is basically because I street race on occasion, and you CANT do 5K dropps on the street, so your just as fast as a normal bolton GT then....90% of my races are on the highway with random encounters...slick and a high rpm drop isnt going to help me or him there) ...you make that first quote sound like I said No offence, but your idiots, right off the bat...I said no offence to anyone, but your the ones who started this...Dont mix things together and say thats how I typed it. Again, im trying not to be rude, but you sir are purposefully being rude and obnoxious (IE calling ME DIRECTLY a DICK). I bet you have got pounded into the ground on more than one occasion LOL. Atleast try and have some respect LOL,...seems like people on here have little man syndrome and try to be the "tough guy" by talking trash over the E net. If thats the only way you can feel "tough" or like a "man" then by all means, bash everything I say. Grow up..... I say this thread should be locked, the guy has gotten his answer and I DONT want this turning into a flame war...im trying to stay calm and keep it from getting there...I told him my opinion of how he should get 12.5s and he seemed to agree that he wanted to get there by means of power, and not ONLY by 6K dumps.(not that they are seperate things, but you get my point) Case closed I guess.