1965 Mustang Lower Control Arm Question.

chopper1876 · Nov 9, 2024

I have a question about my 1965 Mustang. I just replaced the front Lower Control Arms, and realized that on one of them, I put one mounting bolt in reverse (the nut is on the cross-member side and the end of the bolt is extremely close to the cross-member and may be hitting it) I already put everything back together before I realized it, including strut arm, sway bar linkage, etc. Can I remove that mounting bolt and put it back in the correct way, without having to remove all of the other components again ? I just want to make sure, if I remove that mounting bolt, that nothing crazy will drop or shift with the control arm.

89ripper · Nov 14, 2024

You had torqued this already, yes? Are we entirely sure it is going to interfere with anything that will necessitate you having to back it out?

chopper1876 · Nov 16, 2024

They are torqued. I looked closer and it appears that the bolt will clear the cross-member by a hair, so it should be ok. One new issue I am running into now; I have both new lower control arms on and put everything back together, but noticed the wheels are pointing inward a little. If I straighten the passenger wheel while the car is on jack stands, it makes the drivers side point noticeably inward. When I installed these, I am wondering if the wheels weren't straight or did I do something else wrong when installing them ? My steering wheel doesn't lock when the car is turned off and the key removed (which may be a different issue) so the wheels probably moved a little left to right when I was installing the arms. Not sure if these cars originally had locking steering wheels or not.

manicmechanic007 · Nov 18, 2024

Those older Mustangs did not have a steering column lock
When you changed the lower arms, you needed to mark those camber adjusters
Those adjuster bolts go in from the front
The alignment man might say something about them installed backwards but they should be okay like they are
That's so you can get them back in the exact same spot they were before
No big deal, you just need another front end alignment now

manicmechanic007 · Nov 18, 2024

Note: you need to torque those camber adjuster bolts with the car sitting on the ground
Otherwise, the suspension will be on a bind, and it might rip the lower A arm bushing

chopper1876 · Nov 18, 2024

manicmechanic007 said:
Those older Mustangs did not have a steering column lock
When you changed the lower arms, you needed to mark those camber adjusters
Those adjuster bolts go in from the front
The alignment man might say something about them installed backwards but they should be okay like they are
That's so you can get them back in the exact same spot they were before
No big deal, you just need another front end alignment now

Thank you for the info. The wheels were pretty excessively toe-in after I installed the new lower arms (to the point where the car wouldn't freely roll back and forth) so I adjusted the tie rod sleeves to straighten the wheels, which seemed to work. I definitely still need an alignment, but the car was not driveable before addressing the toe problem. It was crazy, before I adjusted the tie rod sleeves, I would turn the steering wheel half a rotation and the car wheels would barely turn going down the road. At least now I can at least limp it into the shop to have it aligned.

manicmechanic007 · Nov 18, 2024

Nice
My first car was a 65 Mustang
Sounds like you are well on your way to being okay as far as the alignment
You can do a fair job yourself with a camber gauge or a level and a toe bar or a stick
The Caster or rake does not affect tire wear, and your camber spec is +.5 degree toe +1/8"
So the wheels out at the top very slightly and use a stick or 1x2 for the toe
I did alignments at Ford for 25 years so, I can do them in the dark
You seem smart enough to get it close
Back in the old days, cars were aligned with a caster / camber gauge and a toe bar
I have one of the old gauges I use when replacing struts and a 1x2 wooden stick in a tube for the toe
I can get 'em pretty damn close like that before I drive them to actually get aligned on a rack

chopper1876 · Nov 18, 2024

manicmechanic007 said:
Nice
My first car was a 65 Mustang
Sounds like you are well on your way to being okay as far as the alignment
You can do a fair job yourself with a camber gauge or a level and a toe bar or a stick
The Caster or rake does not affect tire wear, and your camber spec is +.5 degree toe +1/8"
So the wheels out at the top very slightly and use a stick or 1x2 for the toe
I did alignments at Ford for 25 years so, I can do them in the dark
You seem smart enough to get it close
Back in the old days, cars were aligned with a caster / camber gauge and a toe bar
I have one of the old gauges I use when replacing struts and a 1x2 wooden stick in a tube for the toe
I can get 'em pretty damn close like that before I drive them to actually get aligned on a rack

I've watched a few videos on camber and caster. I don't have it fully absorbed in my brain yet, seems a bit confusing for now, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I've always been one of those people that learns as I go. I don't have any mechanic schooling, just what I've been able to teach myself over the years. My Mustang is a true 1964.5 (build date 6/20/1964) The previous owner spent 6 years restoring it, nut and bolt. He even used to wax the undercarriage. However, since I live in Clearwater Florida, the heat dried out the ball joint boots over the years, which is why I had to replace them. Here is a photo of it.

manicmechanic007 · Nov 19, 2024

Sweet, love the wheels. Mine was white too, had AC and some gauges
Didn't care or know much at the time and like a dumb arse, I wrecked it
Made out alright though, sold it to a guy "Mustang Andy" a local collector
Told me the gauges were worth more than the car at the time, that and the AC
Think of caster like rake, a chopper motorcycle has a ton of caster (rake) so line up the ball joints and make a line
Visualize a vertical line through the ball joints fore and aft
If the lower ball joint is forward of the upper, that's positive caster
Expedition has about 5 degrees, your mustang about .5 to 2 degrees depending manual steer or not
In or out of the wheel at the top is camber
Out at the top is positive,
Your Mustang and mine need about +1/2 degree camber and maybe 2 degrees caster

chopper1876 · Nov 19, 2024

I would love to have AC in mine. The Florida heat here is brutal in the summertime. I do still have manual steering also. The analogy you made for castor is awesome, and really helped it click in my head what castor is. I know motorcycles well. I've owned a lot of different raked-out big-tire choppers in my life (Bourget Python was my favorite) I really appreciate you helping me understand it better.

chopper1876 · Dec 3, 2024

manicmechanic007 said:
Sweet, love the wheels. Mine was white too, had AC and some gauges
Didn't care or know much at the time and like a dumb arse, I wrecked it
Made out alright though, sold it to a guy "Mustang Andy" a local collector
Told me the gauges were worth more than the car at the time, that and the AC
Think of caster like rake, a chopper motorcycle has a ton of caster (rake) so line up the ball joints and make a line
Visualize a vertical line through the ball joints fore and aft
If the lower ball joint is forward of the upper, that's positive caster
Expedition has about 5 degrees, your mustang about .5 to 2 degrees depending manual steer or not
In or out of the wheel at the top is camber
Out at the top is positive,
Your Mustang and mine need about +1/2 degree camber and maybe 2 degrees caste

I came into a new problem you might have some insight into. We finally got a cold front push through and we are in the low 60's for a change. I went to take my car out, and let it warm up to about 160 degrees before driving it. I put it in first gear and slowly let off the clutch and heard a LOUD thud and it kicked it out of first gear. I checked the trans fluid, and it was pretty low (apparently there is a slow leak somewhere because it took 2 quarts) so I filled it up with Valvoline non-synthetic 75W-90 gear oil (both G-4 & G-5 approved) Afterwards, it seemed to run fine for that day (about 30 miles driven). Then yesterday, exact same thud happened again, I check the fluid and it was full. It almost seems like it does it if the trans fluid is cold, but it has never done that before. Do you think the gear oil is too thick for the transmission gears in cold weather, or am I looking at something much worse, like synchros from what I researched.

manicmechanic007 · Dec 3, 2024

Right, the synchro in the transmission holds it in gear
The spring loaded dogs in particular
What trans do you have? 3 speed or 4 speed?
Either way, they are replaceable with some effort
Quite costly for parts though
Synchros used to be around 400 each from Ford when you could still get them
That is why you see people with bungie cords on their shift levers on old cars and trucks

chopper1876 · Dec 3, 2024

manicmechanic007 said:
Right, the synchro in the transmission holds it in gear
The spring loaded dogs in particular
What trans do you have? 3 speed or 4 speed?
Either way, they are replaceable with some effort
Quite costly for parts though
Synchros used to be around 400 each from Ford when you could still get them
That is why you see people with bungie cords on their shift levers on old cars and trucks

I have a 5 speed Tremec non-world class T5. Well, if that is the issue, I have a bunch of bungee cords laying around. Its odd to me that after the transmission heats up, it doesn't do it ? If the syncros were bad, would it do it all the time ? Or just initially on a cold start ?

manicmechanic007 · Dec 3, 2024

T5 might be just a shift rail issue
Which gear is popping out?
There are detents on the shift rails on those T5's
Maybe a spring broke or roll pin has sheared
I would pull the tower and take a look
Once the tower is off, you can play with the synchros and see how easy the gear pops out
Also you can see how easy the shift forks move back and forth

chopper1876 · Dec 3, 2024

manicmechanic007 said:
T5 might be just a shift rail issue
Which gear is popping out?
There are detents on the shift rails on those T5's
Maybe a spring broke or roll pin has sheared
I would pull the tower and take a look
Once the tower is off, you can play with the synchros and see how easy the gear pops out
Also you can see how easy the shift forks move back and forth

First gear pops out. I never wanted to push it past first gear because of how loud the thud was, didn't want to mess something up worse than it is. It sounded like the tranny fell out. I'm not too mechanicly inclined, so it may be a little outside my comfort zone to start ripping into the transmission. Any chance you live near Tampa Florida amd want to make a little extra cash ? I have no problem getting my hands dirty, and love learning how to work on things.

horse sence · Dec 4, 2024

Ok ,65 66 does not use camber bolts on the lower control arm ,it's simply a 1 /2 inch bolt ,67 up does . The only thing I would worry about would be if the coil spring is in ,the lower controll arm may drop violently . The radious rod may also bind because of the bushing making it hard to get the bolt out or back in the lower control arm

horse sence · Dec 4, 2024

It actually doesn't matter what direction the bolt points since it does nothing for alignment

chopper1876 · Dec 4, 2024

horse sence said:
It actually doesn't matter what direction the bolt points since it does nothing for alignment

Thank you for the reply. I'm gonna leave the bolt as it is. It looks to be about 1-2mm from touching the cross meter, so I don't think it will be an issue.

manicmechanic007 · Dec 4, 2024

horse sence said:
Ok ,65 66 does not use camber bolts on the lower control arm ,it's simply a 1 /2 inch bolt ,67 up does . The only thing I would worry about would be if the coil spring is in ,the lower controll arm may drop violently . The radious rod may also bind because of the bushing making it hard to get the bolt out or back in the lower control arm

Forgot about that, too used to my 69

GOvert · Dec 7, 2024

T-5 transmissions should have either automatic transmission fluid or a thin clear hydraulic fluid.
Google search results for T-5 trans fluid

1965 Mustang Lower Control Arm Question.

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