1968 Mustang 5.0 Roller motor & aod suggestions needed

[John in AZ]

So I am getting the 5.0 motor out of a 2000 explorer. I am not getting the fuelinjection stuff & want to convert to a carb setup. Am leaving the longblock stock but am planning on a timing set (motor has 160k miles on it) would like to add a mechanical fuel pump to it. I know I need a carbed front cover & that is no problem but what do I order for the timing set & eccentric?



Which intake would be good thinking like performer air gap or something similar.



Carb?



Ignition going to use one of summit's hei distributors



Also I found a guy selling an AOD4 with the lokar kickdown cable & a 2000 stall converter. Is the 2000 stall to high for this set up? This car is going to be a driver with ac & such.



Thanks in advance

John

 

[mustangmutt]

A timing chain for an older carbureted 302 from the 70's will work with the older style front cover. Along with the Fuel Pump eccentric. Newer Cam sprockets are thicker and the FP eccentric won't fit.
An Edelbrock Performer 302 intake is good and an Edelbrock 600 CFM carb. If you decide to put a slightly bigger Cam, then a Performer RPM with a Holley 670 Street Avenger is the way I would go.

Personally I don't like the HEI look on Fords where the Distributor is up front. It just looks too big. I'd run a Pertronix or MSD. But thats up to you.

A 2000 stall converter isn't that high so it should work okay, but I would go back to a stock converter unless you're planning on sticking in a larger than stock Cam at sometime.

If you have the Intake off of the Explorer, I might be interested in it.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

1.) Which intake would be good thinking like performer air gap or something similar.

2.) Carb?

3.) Ignition going to use one of summit's hei distributors

1.) Another option is the Weiand Stealth dual plane. I plan to replace my X-Celerator single plane for a Stealth one of these days.

2.) Personally, I wouldn't go with anything over 600cfm even if the cam does get changed later. Like the intake, I plan to replace my 650 with a 600.

3.) Whatever distributor you use, be sure it has a steel gear. I used an '85 Mustang GT Duraspark distributor with a GM HEI module to drive the coil.

 

[KMatch]

Bone stock, the AODs came with 1800-2200 stall converters depending on application. I got a 2500 and regret it as it's not enough. My setup is a mid 90s roller 302, AFR heads, trickflow stage 1 cam, Holley 570SA fed with electric pump, aod with Transgo HP and 3.73 gears. It's mild yet 2500 just isn't enough stall as the hole-shot needs some help - either in gears or stall, probably both.

Note: before adding a/c, the stall was more tolerable. Once the a/c kicks in, it drags the idle down a good bit in gear. Me? I'd go with a 3000 if doing it again. It's not so much about a race car - it's about good overall performance.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

What about an electric dashpot to raise the idle while the A/C is running?

Since I don't play with automatics, I will only relay that a common complaint I saw/heard in the 5.0 forum when I had my '89 GT was that the stock Mustang AOD/AODE is a lazy transmission. A 4.10 ring & pinion was almost universally recommended for AOD cars getting a gear swap with the stock converter.

 

[12sec67]

one option instead of going through all the hassle of replacing the front cover is to go with just a cheap universal electric pump from autozone or kragen. This is what I did anyway.... the holley pumps were too loud for my wife so I went to to the cheap pump and it does great with a 302 aluminim heads and holley 600 vs

 

[horseballz]

Be careful about a timing chain/gears from the 70's, as some years require the use of a 2-piece fuel pump eccentric as does the OEM one that is likely currently in the engine. The 2-piece is hard to find, usually pricey and IMHO an inferior setup. If you use an early/after market/replacement timing cover with a fuel pump hole/mount, the timing set to use is a Cloyes 9-1135 or one that is a direct cross in another brand. if using a different brand, make sure that it specifies use of a "one piece" fuel pump eccentric. Cloyes also make a higher end, more pricey set that also ends in 35 that will work. On to your heads. Are they GT 40 "P" heads? If they are, you will find "GTP" next to the lower front head bolt on the passenger side and the lower rear head bolt on the driver side. If they ARE "P" heads, exhaust header/exhaust manifold choice/fitment becomes a serious issue. While these heads are some of the best flowing cast iron heads that Ford made, the change in location and angle of the spark plugs interferes with many/most after market headers and probably the stock 68 cast iron units. There are only one or two companies that make headers specifically for these heads in a Classic Mustang and are all Tri-Y design. It is rumored that some Hedman and Hooker long tubes will work with minor "massaging" but I have no experience in that. Ford Powertrain Applications makes some real nice ones, but they are not exactly cheap.

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Also, make sure that whatever you get for headers specifies that they will clear the AOD, if thats the way you're going. I'm sure others will chime in with their knowledge/experiences on this issue.
HTH,
Gene

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Be careful about a timing chain/gears from the 70's, as some years require the use of a 2-piece fuel pump eccentric as does the OEM one that is likely currently in the engine. The 2-piece is hard to find, usually pricey and IMHO an inferior setup.

One-piece eccentrics are available from Ford Racing Performance Parts dealers like Summit. Summit also has the two-piece eccentrics. The most expensive one is $25.

A little gotcha is that the single-piece eccentrics require a longer cam dowel than the two-piece ones. The 5.0 roller engine is going to have a short dowel suitable for the two-piece eccentric. If the engine is original, you'll probably find a little stamped oil slinger-type thing in place of an eccentric.

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/835309-what.html

one option instead of going through all the hassle of replacing the front cover is to go with just a cheap universal electric pump from autozone or kragen. This is what I did anyway.... the holley pumps were too loud for my wife so I went to to the cheap pump and it does great with a 302 aluminim heads and holley 600 vs

I will attest to how loud the Holley pumps are; I have a Holley Red in my '68 and it's getting tossed in favor of a mechanical. The only thing holding me up is the fact that I didn't put an eccentric on my cam when I put the engine together, so I have to drop the pan and timing cover in order to use a mechanical pump. I have been tempted to just swap out the Red for a universal like you mentioned, but was concerned that they wouldn't flow enough.

 

[horseballz]

65ShelbyClone,
I could not find the 2-piece unit at Summit. I was only able to find it at:
Home
And yes, I forgot about the dowel issue. If he goes with a 2-piece eccentric, he needs a timing set for the 2-piece.
Thanks,
Gene

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Ford small block Windsor - 5.0L/302 - FORD - SummitRacing.com

It looks like that little stamped tab may actually be a fuel pump eccentric. Dura-Bond describes it as one, anyway.

 

[horseballz]

Yeah, if it were me, I'd prefer to have an actual Ford part as opposed to one made by some company who isn't quite sure what they're sellin' ya. Even if it was used, but the guy I linked to actually sells a bunch of NOS Ford stuff, as well as this new Ford 2-piece unit.
Thanks,
Gene

 

[2+2GT]

Dura-Bond FKF-1 - Dura-Bond Engine Hardware Finishing Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

$20.39

 

[John in AZ]

thanks for the input. I have a 77-79 lincoln versallies to snag the fuel pump eccentric out of & the timing cover as well.
New problem what about the harmonic balancer? I have not pulled the front apart but the one on there now seems to have the serpitine belt pully attached to it as well as the crank position vane. I will know better once I start breaking it down.

 

[2+2GT]

New problem what about the harmonic balancer?

Easy answer is to get the "conversion" balancer, which has the correct 50oz imbalance, but is configured to match the 65-69 brackets and pulleys.

 

[horseballz]

This one works well:

Professional Products 80007 - Professional Products PowerForce Harmonic Dampers - Overview - SummitRacing.com

It has both the 3-bolt & 4-bolt patterns. It also has a removable center ring to allow use of either a crank pulley that has an "inny" or an "outy". It has 3 or 4 different timing scales to 40 degrees BTDC for use with different pointer locations. The only downside is that at least the scale for driver side bolt, on pointer appears to be about 1 1/2 degrees off which I had heard rumors about and confirmed while degreeing my cam. I guess that explains why my engine seems to like almost 18 degrees BTDC for initial timing instead of the general consensus of 16 maximum. Not a problem, especially if you know about it and realize that checking your timing curve is a matter of having reference from point "A" to point "B". Then again, the error might be crappy quality control on the flimsy after market pointer. Either way, nice unit with a good price.
HTH,
Gene

 

[65ShelbyClone]

That's the damper I have on my engine with the 1968 pulley set.