Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 4, 2019

HotFox said:
Yeah Mike I'm glad your abandoning the weldment bell housing, my concern not only maintaining center during fabrication, but also what kind of flex during full torque flogs.
Did something like this but I used a hemi clutch can to a Waukesha in a Oliver tractor. I had the back of the block bolt holes and clutch can CMM'd. Then put it in CAD and made my adapter, I also had to reclock the starter not only rotating the bolt holes but also moved it to align better with the bell housing. Good planning in CAD made for successful installation. I did plot on paper to make certain I was on the right track before cutting metal.

Cant you use the Toyota bell and make a adapter to fit your transmission even if its thick aluminum plate welded on in the back? It almost seems like if you cut both bells in half and welded them together, obviously jig welded to hold centers.

Now Scott...i don't expect you to hang on every word I've ever written...especially when I've written about 73 bagillion of them over the course of the last 8 years..
but in just the last reply I stated that the A340 Toyota bell was gonna get bolted to a plate, and another plate will be bolted to the trans,..and the two of them will be welded together.

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 6, 2019

Well I'm there....Nothing left to do but do. As my buddy Yoda says..."Do Not Try...Do,...or do not".
I chose to do.
I made a purchase last night....250.00 worth of junk from DIY autotune...Mostly because I'm positive that the car will never run again due to the complexity of the engine. I had the JimStim simulator built when I first built the MS2, 5 years ago, but after getting the thing running, sold that stuff off to Collin (Hoopty5.0)
Now that I have upgraded the thing to MS3x and plan to convert from EDIS ign, and batch fired injection to SEFI with COP, and intend to accommodate the Variable Valve Timing, Knock sensors, and use an IAC motor instead of the fast idle valve.....
I'm thinkin I'm phcked.
With that mindset, I bought the test equipment so that I can see for myself that the outputs that are supposed to go to these various devices actually work. I figure if that part of my brain (the right side) can rationalize to the other side of my brain that will want to rip all of that sht out, disable the VVTI, batch fire the freakin thing and try to reconfigure the EDIS....I may have a prayer of seeing the thing run like it did when it was in the land of the rising sun.
But to tie this all into the new tag line,...I got nothing left to buy for the thing.
With a few exceptions........
The wife wont thermal coat the exhaust manifold for me as a Christmas present...and I'm gonna run stock cams....If I wanted some stupid power level above 500whp I'd need new cams...(She wouldn't buy those either) Fortunately, with regard to the cams,...I intend to practice what I preach.
A street car with more than 500whp is a waste of money without the means to couple that power to the road.
So,...It'll have to be a future capability.......
When the left side of my brain sneaks in while my right side brain is sleeping, and beats it to a pulp.

droopie85gt · Dec 7, 2019

CarMichael Angelo said:
Well I'm there....Nothing left to do but do. As my buddy Yoda says..."Do Not Try...Do,...or do not".
I chose to do.

The wife wont thermal coat the exhaust manifold for me as a Christmas present...and I'm gonna run stock cams....If I wanted some stupid power level above 500whp I'd need new cams...(She wouldn't buy those either)

She won't buy these things because Mikey been a bad boy or she refuses to throw money into a pit and set it on fire>??

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 7, 2019

I was finally off today. Because it's the day that Kate has deemed " Christmas decoration day", I has the spectre of having my day interrupted to have to go out and buy a tree, then set that thing up, lug 50 bagillion decorations out of the basement, and help her make the house " all Christmassy"
If that wasn't enough, the dog has a bunch of slimy fungoo in one of his eyes,....I have to take him to the vet today too.

Turns out that the dog has allergies, and possibly a hair in that eye...and his ass glands are plugged up. They took him away to weigh him, and at the time, I had no idea that they were also gonna express those glands. But from the exam room, I could watch into the area where they were doing it. I couldn't see the actual process, but from what I could see, there was a few vet techs reacting to the end result. It was kinda like when somebody gets sick in a crowd.

Let's just say that more than a couple of them got blasted with my dogs ass gland juice.

Aside from that, It costs me 140.00 to find out that I could've given him some benedril, and washed his eye out with Visine AC...
At least the dog looks better. ( I'm sure he feels better too) The fact that a couple of vet techs have my dogs ass jizz on them made the time sacrifice this morning more acceptable to me.

When I get home, the wife is gone to get the tree,...I start right away trying to get the damn transmission married to the engine.
I call her and make a pinky deal..I tell her if she'll let me have 4 hours, I'll spend the rest of the day and evening setting up the tree and making the place all Christmassy.

She agrees.....In actuality, she leave me alone for 5 hours.

Here is where I start.

The engine is leveled, as is the trans. They are both at the same height. The trans, and converter slide together effortlessly.

The plan is to use the removable bell from the Jap trans,..make a plate that’ll bolt onto the rear of that bell,..make tabs that’ll bolt to the front pump of the trans,..weld them together.

I make the plate..

I make the tabs for the trans..

I make these out of 1/4“ bar...I also add a washer behind to apply pressure to the pump housing when I tighten the bolts down, just in case the tab is riding on some part of the trans case instead.
total thickness of those tabs.......just a tick under 5/16”

I put the stuff together....I merge the two pieces....it ain’t gonna work.

the plate I made to go on the back of the bellhousing blocks the bolts to the front pump..In other words, if I weld these two pieces together, I’ll never be able to get to the front pump bolts ever again...

You can see the plate butted up against the top two front pump bolts...I’m phcked. I can’t drill access hole,..the bolts that go through the bellhousing into that plate interfere with the bolts that go into the front pump..and.....they are holding the trans too far back...the converter is actually out of the front pump by about 3/16”

You’re lookin between the trans and the back of the bell at the converter hub. That tape was against the lip seal of the front pump,..now it’s at least 3/16” out, and the bolts that go into the front pump are jammed against that plate. Again,....I’m pcked.
I’m so freakin angry that I cannot get past this that I have an epic temper tantrum.

Its at this time that I get a blinding headache..It literally brings me to my knees..My vision goes away,...my head feels like it’s gonna explode..............Im having.....I mean,...I have,.......an Epiphany.

I’m gonna be able to fix it..I’m gonna be able to finish this damn thing.

the 1/4” tabs can be changed out for 1/8” tabs...I’ll get an 1/8” back and the converter will barely be out of the front pump. ( it’s supposed to be between 3/32 to 1/8“ out of the front pump anyway) I’ll have to gusset the tabs to give them the strength that the 1/4” tabs would have,..and since I can’t weld the two pieces together,....I’ll make it so I can bolt them together...

Then,..I’ll be able to get to the front pump bolts....after I unbolt the plate that blocks them...and most importantly after two months of fcking with this,....

I’ll be done.

jrichker · Dec 7, 2019

CarMichael Angelo said:
I made a purchase last night....250.00 worth of junk from DIY autotune...

The wife wont thermal coat the exhaust manifold for me as a Christmas present...and I'm gonna run stock cams....If I wanted some stupid power level above 500whp I'd need new cams...(She wouldn't buy those either) Fortunately, with regard to the cams,...I intend to practice what I preach.

Count yourself blessed - my wife gave me the sour grapes look "What are you spending money for now" . I spent $75 for some new Spicer U joints for the Ford Racing aluminum driveshaft that has over 100K miles on it. Then next day she tells me that she like old cars. She must mean cars that were made before she was born 70+ years ago... My daily driver Mustang is 30+ years old now, but that doesn't count as an old car...

95BlueStallion · Dec 7, 2019

Patiently waiting for V.3.

droopie85gt · Dec 8, 2019

95BlueStallion said:
Patiently waiting for V.3.

CarMichael Angelo said:
You’re lookin between the trans and the back of the bell at the converter hub. That tape was against the lip seal of the front pump,..now it’s at least 3/16” out, and the bolts that go into the front pump are jammed against that plate. Again,....I’m pcked.
I’m so freakin angry that I cannot get past this that I have an epic temper tantrum.

Its at this time that I get a blinding headache..It literally brings me to my knees..My vision goes away,...my head feels like it’s gonna explode..............Im having.....I mean,...I have,.......an Epiphany.

My wife has often asked, will yelling and cussing at an inanimate object, YOU BOUGHT, and seem to love, make whatever you are doing any better??

YES. YES IT WILL.

EVENTUALLY.

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 8, 2019

I believe that today will mark the turning point for me. After I get through a “Get-together” that the love of my life had planned with our ( her) friends, I may be able to spend a few hours making the final mods to the mating brackets For the trans.

I have rehearsed in my head the course of action, and I’m fairly certain that I can make this work. The one thing here is that a bolted together solution means that maybe it’ll give me the flexibility to move it to another trans ( 5R55/6R80) when and if I decide to ever do that.
The other is that I think it’ll look good enough to brag on..(if it turns out the way my brain is telling me it’ll look.)

I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

jrichker · Dec 8, 2019

CarMichael Angelo said:
I was finally off today. Because it's the day that Kate has deemed " Christmas decoration day", I has the spectre of having my day interrupted to have to go out and buy a tree, then set that thing up, lug 50 bagillion decorations out of the basement, and help her make the house " all Christmassy"
If that wasn't enough, the dog has a bunch of slimy fungoo in one of his eyes,....I have to take him to the vet today too.

Turns out that the dog has allergies, and possibly a hair in that eye...and his ass glands are plugged up. They took him away to weigh him, and at the time, I had no idea that they were also gonna express those glands. But from the exam room, I could watch into the area where they were doing it. I couldn't see the actual process, but from what I could see, there was a few vet techs reacting to the end result. It was kinda like when somebody gets sick in a crowd.

Let's just say that more than a couple of them got blasted with my dogs ass gland juice.

Aside from that, It costs me 140.00 to find out that I could've given him some benedril, and washed his eye out with Visine AC...
At least the dog looks better. ( I'm sure he feels better too) The fact that a couple of vet techs have my dogs ass jizz on them made the time sacrifice this morning more acceptable to me.

When I get home, the wife is gone to get the tree,...I start right away trying to get the damn transmission married to the engine.
I call her and make a pinky deal..I tell her if she'll let me have 4 hours, I'll spend the rest of the day and evening setting up the tree and making the place all Christmassy.

She agrees.....In actuality, she leave me alone for 5 hours.

Here is where I start.

The engine is leveled, as is the trans. They are both at the same height. The trans, and converter slide together effortlessly.

The plan is to use the removable bell from the Jap trans,..make a plate that’ll bolt onto the rear of that bell,..make tabs that’ll bolt to the front pump of the trans,..weld them together.

I make the plate..

I make the tabs for the trans..

I make these out of 1/4“ bar...I also add a washer behind to apply pressure to the pump housing when I tighten the bolts down, just in case the tab is riding on some part of the trans case instead.
total thickness of those tabs.......just a tick under 5/16”

I put the stuff together....I merge the two pieces....it ain’t gonna work.

the plate I made to go on the back of the bellhousing blocks the bolts to the front pump..In other words, if I weld these two pieces together, I’ll never be able to get to the front pump bolts ever again...

You can see the plate butted up against the top two front pump bolts...I’m phcked. I can’t drill access hole,..the bolts that go through the bellhousing into that plate interfere with the bolts that go into the front pump..and.....they are holding the trans too far back...the converter is actually out of the front pump by about 3/16”

You’re lookin between the trans and the back of the bell at the converter hub. That tape was against the lip seal of the front pump,..now it’s at least 3/16” out, and the bolts that go into the front pump are jammed against that plate. Again,....I’m pcked.
I’m so freakin angry that I cannot get past this that I have an epic temper tantrum.

Its at this time that I get a blinding headache..It literally brings me to my knees..My vision goes away,...my head feels like it’s gonna explode..............Im having.....I mean,...I have,.......an Epiphany.

I’m gonna be able to fix it..I’m gonna be able to finish this damn thing.

the 1/4” tabs can be changed out for 1/8” tabs...I’ll get an 1/8” back and the converter will barely be out of the front pump. ( it’s supposed to be between 3/32 to 1/8“ out of the front pump anyway) I’ll have to gusset the tabs to give them the strength that the 1/4” tabs would have,..and since I can’t weld the two pieces together,....I’ll make it so I can bolt them together...

Then,..I’ll be able to get to the front pump bolts....after I unbolt the plate that blocks them...and most importantly after two months of fcking with this,....

I’ll be done.

@ CarMichael Angelo

This is a machine shop project that may eliminate most of the DIY manufacture; it may also be expensive. The biggest hurdle will be finding the countersunk bolts in sizes and prices you are willing to pay for them. The Military Spec MS24672 series bolts are a starting place for the bolts that you will need. Again, Google is you friend in this department.

Why not use two pieces of ¼” steel plate cut as a circle whose OD is about 1 1/2” larger than the diagonal measurement across the largest component. Now you have two circular pieces of steel the same size.

Then layout the bolt holes for each piece, drill and countersink them. Keep in mind that metric fasteners have a 90° countersink angle while commercial US fasteners are 82° countersink angle and MS & NAS aircraft fasteners are 100° countersink angle. For simplicity’s sake you may want drill and helicoil all of the bolt holes to US threads. One plate for the bellhousing and one plate for the transmission. Center both plates up with each other and drill and ream holes for two ¼” alignment dowels ½” from the outer edge of the perimeter of the plates. Install the press fit dowels in one side and ream the other 2 holes to make a close fit. Mate the two pieces together and drill the outer ring of holes about ½” from the edge. Choose the bolt size – between 5/16” - 3/8” and use grade 8 bolts You are probably looking at 10-12 bolts for the outer rim in order to get the shear strength that you will need.

Cut out the inner portion of each plate to get the required clearance. Secure the plates to the bellhousing and the transmission/front pump with the countersunk fasteners. Test fit the two components for fit and alignment; using ¼” plate means that you will have about ½” thickness for the two plates bolted together. Too much clearance means that you have to remove material on the side opposite the countersink holes on both plates. Two little clearance means you have to add some shims made out of sheet steel in the form of a ring about 1 “wide. The dowel pins will help keep the parts aligned to make sure it fits straight and true, so be sure to use them if you have to add any shims..

95BlueStallion · Dec 8, 2019

Dang, you spoke out loud before it was done.

Now awaiting V.4.

HotFox · Dec 9, 2019

Imagine what Mike could do with a Brigeport mill in his garage!

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 15, 2019

I’m officially there. I’m at the stage where rationale starts to spend my money.
Simply put, things gets to a point where you start telling yourself “ Since you’ve gone this far, you may as well just do it”.

That line of thinking is the killer of many a project. That line of thinking turns a winter project into a multiple winter project...One that might have had a modest budget, but now becomes a “ stupid expensive, never ending excuse to keep on spending money on it“ project..

Specifically speaking.....this freaking 2JZGTE.

Today’s lesson: 2Jz’s use TTY fasteners........everywhere. Head bolts, Main bolts, Rod bolts,..all TTY. Once loosened, they become throw away. I knew this about the head bolts,...and there is now a set of head studs laying down there in their place.
If I could’ve left the bottom end intact, and not remove the rotating assembly, those fasteners would’ve been fine for my anticipated power goals......

I‘d have never known this if the intake cam hadn’t spun off of the wrench I had on it while trying to remove the intake cam gear. So I could simply change out the cam seals...

A total of ten dollars to do...

But things didn’t work out that way.

Now, after doing a leak down test ( the results of which are partly suspect) I have to remove the head to take it to a machine shop and have it checked.

The rational part of your brain says: “Since you’ve got the head off, and the head is at a machine shop, you may as well have him touch up the valves.”
And $250.00 blows straight out of your ass.

You need a new head gasket, ...You buy the best, because “Since you intend to lean on the engine more than stock, you may as well buy a Cometic”

And another $150 flies outta there.

You now have a completely fresh head, and a new head gasket....You heard somewhere that the head bolts may be TTY....You do some reading,..sure enough they are,..So you buy new ones. They’re cheap enough, but the “voices from the bleachers“ tell you to not be a chump, and remember why you rationalized the head gasket to yourself...( Oh yeah.....I’m gonna go for a little less than twice the factory power level the engine came with originally.........Dammit!)

So you send the TTY stock stuff back, and spend 3 times more than that to buy head studs...BAM!
Another $150.00.

But finally,...........Here you are..You got a fresh head,....You got new cam seals,...You got a new Cometic head gasket, and now a brand new set of ARP head studs to hold that bitch on.
But There’s pitting around the water holes in the block deck...it looks deep enough in some areas to cause a water leak.....And Cometic head gaskets already have a rep for leaking even when everything is perfect...and this is far from perfect.

A call to Cometic confirms your fear,....they want perfect mating surfaces. That’ll mean that the block will need decking.

And that’ll require I loosen and remove the rod bolts,...which are TTY,...and the main bolts...which are TTY...to remove the rotating assy so they can deck the block.
( See where this is going?)

And if all of this ain’t bad enough....I gotta deal with the 3AMD at night, and the rational “if I’m gonna go that far, I may as well“ part of my brain the rest of the time.

So.... ( you’re almost at the end now)... The rational side says I should buy new standard bearings and rings since the pistons and crank are out...Cha-Ching!....$250.00 more. New main studs,...Boom! Another $150.00. New rod bolts,...Wham! $125.00.
The rational side tells me that rod bolt replacement always warrants a rod resizing afterwards,..so I now have machine work in front of me too..Lets just add $200.00 to that..For block decking, a light hone,...and rod resizing.

All on an engine that was purchased as a running,.....straight drop in....only changing an oil pan to make it fit, and having to adapt some transmission to that to get it all running.

All of which is now tapping on $8500.

Engine- 2800.00
Intake- 550.00
Exhaust - 600.00
Big ass waste gate- 300.00
Fuel system- 350.00
Injectors- 400.00
Ecu upgrades 350.00
Coil packs 250.00
Oil pump 280.00
Water pump 140.00
Transmission fiasco- 600.00.. ( plus months of days off to make it work)
Fasteners 450.00
A2W intercooler - 350.00
Machine work 450.00
Head gasket. 175.00
Rings, bearings, gaskets- 350.00

If Kate only knew......she’d have a freakin’ stroke.
As for me....I thinkimgonnapuke.

90sickfox · Dec 15, 2019

90sickfox · Dec 15, 2019

You could've had a coyote in there....

Adieu · Dec 15, 2019

90sickfox said:
You could've had a coyote in there....

Just like everyone else doing swaps these days?

2Blue2 · Dec 15, 2019

Cha ching, more money, more money

CarMichael Angelo said:
.I gotta deal with the 3AMD at night, and the rational “if I’m gonna go that far, I may as well“ part of my brain

CarMichael Angelo said:
The rational part of your brain says

CarMichael Angelo said:
things gets to a point where you start telling yourself

CarMichael Angelo said:
if it turns out the way my brain is telling me

Bad Brain!!, BAD ! BAD !!

don't be troubled by an unruly brain
possible solutions

You kids get off my lawn!
Remember the good ole days when a 302/C4 was good enough?

90sickfox · Dec 15, 2019

Mike, it costs to have a bad @$& swap build. It's amazing how stuff adds up when you put it to paper. People always talk about how simple or cheap a swap is. I'm so tired of people talking about that I could swap a coyote in my car for less than 10k. You can, if you want it to look like a hacked up junk yard build. I was shocked to add up the 10k in this 331.....and I just have the cookie cutter, 331, aluminum headed, turbo, POS.

That money you've spent is just that.....spent. you're that much closer to your goal. Unlike the Monsters previous engine, this one can be sold at a premium if you ever decided to go another route. Wouldn't get all your money back but this engine would return a bunch of your investment.

We know putting wild custom builds together isn't cheap.

You just made me think of the 30k in my car that I'd be lucky to get 8k for complete. I'm going to puke again.....

RaggedGT · Dec 15, 2019

Just sell more Beamers and be sure to add on the Deluxe undercoating and personalized floor mats- Be enough money for Two 2JZ’s

stangboy · Dec 15, 2019

Hey Mike!! Did ya miss me?

Ok I'm officially lost as far as what has been done to the car since I last was a regular here. Do you actually have a 2JZ or are you contemplating on getting one??? I don't have time to go back a whole year into this thread. I'm really just popping in on a couple threads i was following because I miss you guys and I found myself with a few spare minutes.

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 15, 2019

stangboy said:
Hey Mike!! Did ya miss me?

Ok I'm officially lost as far as what has been done to the car since I last was a regular here. Do you actually have a 2JZ or are you contemplating on getting one??? I don't have time to go back a whole year into this thread. I'm really just popping in on a couple threads i was following because I miss you guys and I found myself with a few spare minutes.

Hello Craig.
Sorry,..youre Just gonna have to find out for yourself.
*Hint...all you gotta do is go up to my last post to find out.

Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself

droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself

HotFox

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

2Blue2

will be trying this sex one when I can find it

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

RaggedGT

Been here over a DECADE and still no CT

stangboy

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

Hookers and Beer for life!

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

StangNet's favorite TOOL

My assy trans to myself

Hookers and Beer for life!

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

StangNet's favorite TOOL

My assy trans to myself

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

will be trying this sex one when I can find it

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Been here over a DECADE and still no CT

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

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