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Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

  • Thread starter Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
  • Start date Start date Aug 26, 2013
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    1978 2jzgte 6 cylinder american racing ar 500 australian head custom interior cyclone cyclone spoiler fairmont ford fuel injected futura indepedant throttle bodies inline ms3x roller cam snow cooler turbocharged
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droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
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#11,041
  • Jan 19, 2020
  • #11,041
74stang2togo said:
Finally found a machinist that can explain why you've had so much trouble with machining work. (Skip to 8:40)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZYa3LmiNiY
Click to expand...


Oh no...in a week or 2 Mikey's 3AMD will make him take the head back off and check the cam side for straightness. I worry for his sanity at this point.

 

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
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#11,042
  • Jan 19, 2020
  • #11,042
CarMichael Angelo said:
just heard back from the guy @TOOLOW91 Referred me to to send the injectors to for testing, and calibration.
If you remember, these were eBay special Bosch injectors advertised at 1000cc( 95lh/hr) that I bought for 375.00

They are in fact just as described, all within a chicken's dick of each other flow wise.

I did good.
Click to expand...
That’s awesome ! The 75 bucks he charges is worth the peace of mind man
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Jan 19, 2020
#11,043
  • Jan 19, 2020
  • #11,043
Man o man....things are moving now.

Because it’s Sunday, part of this day was shared with my wife. At 2, she wanted to go to a sports bar, and watch the Chiefs game With some of her football watching female friends.

I’d rather have the flu.

Since she knew that I wasn’t gonna be up for that, she offers that I spend the rest of the day in the garage, and she would go meet her friends to yell at a bunch men chasing after the guy that has the ball.

Why,....I don’t mind if I do.


This is my fuel cell. It’s Chine. I have to modify the thing to accept my pump, and either buy a longer sending unit, or make a drop to allow it to recess. Either way, it’ll be wrong. If I drop the thing an inch, it’ll never read full, if I leave it where it is, it’ll say the tank is empty when there would still be several gallons left.

i think it’s better to have the thing say the tank is empty when it actually still has gas in it. ( It’s not like I’ll ever allow this car to run that low anyway)

When there are so many things to do on this car, I’m bouncing around trying to get as many things started as I can. I decided to put the head on the car...


But one of the studs didn’t want to go in nicely. Seemed like there was damage to the threads in the block. The bolt that came out of it threaded in smoothly, but that stud acted like it was gonna gall. So,..I grabbed the bolt, and headed to O Reilly’s to buy a tap. I figured it had to be metric. When I got there, I threaded the bolt into their thread test board that they had hanging there...thought it might be a 10mm fine thread, 10-100pitch. The bolt wouldn’t thread into the nutsert they had that was that size, but at Oreillys, cave men have tried to thread the wrong bolt in almost every nutsert they have, so all of them are phcked up anyway. I looked for that tap. Didnt have it anyway.
Just to be sure, I go back to that thread board, and check the bolt one last time, only this time I’ll check the SAE stuff instead.
It threaded into the 7/16-20 insert..

Go figure,...a domestic thread in a Japanese engine..They didnt have that tap either.

Turns out, I did.

But it wasn’t right. The engine is a Japan spec version, there just isn’t a way that they used a domestic bolt in any part of the engine. A 7/16-20 tap didn’t thread in right either,..I chose not to force it. Instead, I dicked with cleaning the threads and working the stud in and out till I got it all the way in. When I finally got the stud issue behind me, I set the head on the studs.

You couldn’t get some of the nuts to thread,..the holes were intended for a socket head bolt, and there was a bunch of of casting slag in the way. I had to remove the head, remove all of the spring cups ( cause grinding sht was gonna get everywhere again). Once I got that all clean and smooth, and after blowing off the head extensively, I put the thing BACK on, and threaded the 14 nuts on, and torqued the head down to 75ft lbs.

I needed to do some work to the oil pump. Information online recommends rounding off the sharp edges to aid oil flow. That meant the pump had to come apart..There’s like 8 Phillips head screws holding the back on,...you have to remove the back to remove the gears. You have to remove the gears because........grinding dust.

Except,..those screws were torqued down like a sonofabitch. One of them got mangulated and the philips head screw slots became worthless. I had to drill it out. Fortunately there was the old pump that I could rob the screw from.
Once that was done,..I painted the pump GM copper, ( not General Motors) and bolted it on.
I got the new water pump out, it’s part of a two piece unit. I cleaned the old back side. It had a nipple that was intended to feed the old water cooled factory turbos. I removed it, and tapped that so I could plug it. Put the two pieces together, and painted it. Unfortunately, I don’t have the freakin o ring that seals the pump to the block ( Although I thought I did) bottom line..it didn’t get bolted on.


You can see every freakin Oring I had trying to find one that would fit...Not today..
Pretty well ended my engine progres...but I wasn’t done..

This is the VVTI intake gear. When you have one of these engines and start doing homework, you find out that they’ll leak in certain spots. This gear has an Oring seal that sits in the groove you see. That Oring becomes brittle with age, and oil starts to get past it. you can see the crotchety broken Oring in the pic. Even though they pressure wash these engines there was still evidence of leakage. This engine had leaks, and one of them was this gear. Fixing it is easy, you just have to make sure you put the gear back together the way it came apart, otherwise the cam timing could get all phcked up. It’s just a matter of lining up the grooves in the gears. and of course,..you gotta have the right Oring..on this one, I do.

I removed the PS rack. I wanted to keep the alignment, so I locked the two front rotors together before I removed the rack.
I also transferred the bumpsteer kit over to the new manual rack. I checked that thing too,.....3.5 turns lock to lock.
The last thing I did was remove the column,..and that is all the news that fit to tell.
 
Reactions: dr. Dan W., JoeDaddy and KZGUNS

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
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Birmingham, al
Jan 19, 2020
#11,044
  • Jan 19, 2020
  • #11,044

Because you can only post 5 pics per reply.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Jan 20, 2020
#11,045
  • Jan 20, 2020
  • #11,045
The prius EPS unit was delivered according to my FedEx app...
Time to see if I've thrown more money away.
 
Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2020

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#11,046
  • Jan 20, 2020
  • #11,046
Fixed!
 

droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
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Jan 20, 2020
#11,047
  • Jan 20, 2020
  • #11,047
CarMichael Angelo said:
The prius EPS unit was delivered according to my FedEx app...
Time to see if I've thrown money away.
Click to expand...

I think that boat sailed years ago!

But I am interested in seeing how this works out. Also, can you weigh that thing? I am interested in how much it weighs vs. a power rack and all the hoses, pump and stuff that goes with it. How much current does the unit draw?

That engine color is still pretty tight!
 
Reactions: dr. Dan W. and HotFox

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
20+ Year Stangneter
Nov 29, 1999
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Jan 20, 2020
#11,048
  • Jan 20, 2020
  • #11,048
Why not just use the factory ps pump for a 2jz and put the an line adapters on it and make a ptfe feed and could use rubber for the return . Pump even mounts on the driver side ?
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
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Birmingham, al
Jan 20, 2020
#11,049
  • Jan 20, 2020
  • #11,049
TOOLOW91 said:
Why not just use the factory ps pump for a 2jz and put the an line adapters on it and make a ptfe feed and could use rubber for the return . Pump even mounts on the driver side ?
Click to expand...
it's always intrigued me. Power steering w/o all of the hydraulic bullsht. If it works.
If I can make it fit.
 
Reactions: 90sickfox, jeremythedestroyer, KZGUNS and 1 other person

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
20+ Year Stangneter
Nov 29, 1999
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Jan 20, 2020
#11,050
  • Jan 20, 2020
  • #11,050
CarMichael Angelo said:
it's always intrigued me. Power steering w/o all of the hydraulic bullsht. If it works.
If I can make it fit.
Click to expand...
Fair enough , I can understand that . I thought about doing it on my car when the gear drive was an option . But street car lol
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Jan 20, 2020
#11,051
  • Jan 20, 2020
  • #11,051


It'll fit.

Its not gonna be a huge weight saving alternative if we’re talking about trading this for a power steering pump, lines, and bracketry. It’s also another “ not for the faint of heart” conversion. I have taken the Prius EPS unit apart as far as I can so that I could weld the necessary mounts on so that I can use the factory column mount points. I had no idea what kind of bushings/ bearings were in the steel tubing to support the internal shaft. Fortunately, there was only one bearing at each end, one of which I’ve removed to get the two piece shaft system out of the tube. The large end where the motor has some sort of circuit board that is soldered to some sort of sensor ring at the motor end of the unit. I was hoping to be able to remove that so that any welding I’m gonna do won’t hurt the circuitry. but I’d have to de-solder 4 pins in order to remove that board from the sensor ring...I’m thinking that I don’t want to risk damaging that board trying to desolder it so that I don’t damage it by welding on the tube...

See the catch 22 here?

once I get the tube modified to mount the lower assembly to the ford steering column mount, I’ll start trying to decide where to cut the ford column, and then figure out how I’m gonna tie the ford shaft to the Prius shaft, and at the same time tie the ford column to the Prius unit.

Then,.....once ALL of that is figured out,...I’ll still have to adapt the output shaft of the Prius to the Ford steering coupler so that I can tie the rack in , and wire the stuff all in.

A month of days off.....
 
Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
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Jan 20, 2020
#11,052
  • Jan 20, 2020
  • #11,052
Hopefully it goes smooth for ya Mike. I’m kinda jonesin to see this come together now.
 
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a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
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Jan 21, 2020
#11,053
  • Jan 21, 2020
  • #11,053
Well Mike better you than us..
 
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droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
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Jan 21, 2020
#11,054
  • Jan 21, 2020
  • #11,054
Don't worry about getting it right the first time. The 3rd or 4th time is the charm, or so I heard. That thing is actually a lot smaller than I thought...at least the diameter of the motor thingy part.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
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234
Birmingham, al
Jan 22, 2020
#11,055
  • Jan 22, 2020
  • #11,055
Ok..I’m off today. Decisions.......

Today I gotta decide whether or not to leave the existing main cap bolts in place, or use the new ones that are laying on the bench downstairs. On one hand.......the damn bolts are torqued and didn’t break. They didn’t do anything weird, they pulled to torque, and then allowed me to pull them another 75 degrees past the torque point. The one side of my brain says to leave them, and store the other bolts in case something fails in this engine ( other than a main cap bolt) and I need them.
The other will be the worry that they’ll fail at some point. When you read the freakin instructions in the manual about assembling the engine, and read about the TTY sequence,..it says install the bolts, torque them to 44 ftlbs, pull them another 90 degrees. If one of them fails, replace it. ...( This is for a new freakin bolt....the phckin things can fail the first time you pull them).
So.....this is thing one.
If I decide to leave them, or if I decide to replace them,...I can put the oil pan on today.
The other thing is whether or not to double check that freakin pan for leaks. ( maybe it’s triple check...I-I-I don’t know anymore)
If I focus on that......if I decide to stay on that path, verify that the pan don’t leak, I can put the damn thing on the engine. I could put the cams on,....I could bolt the engine to the transmission,...I could put the engine in the car, I could make mounts for it...
But, there are other things I want to do to the engine while it’s out and on a stand....I need to see about either using the factory compressor, or adapting my Sanden unit to the engine instead. Building a bracket for that would be sooo much easier if the engine is right in front of me, as opposed to having to lay on my back. Yeah.........much better.

I bought one of these plates to mount the coil packs...

it cost 99.00 bucks. I bought the thing a long time ago as I’ve been amassing parts for the engine. Last Sunday I decided to get it out, and bolt the coil packs to it. Two things:
1. The freakin coil packs that I bought an even longer time ago are wrong. The bolt hole arrangement is parallel to the length of the coil, and they are too long To even consider trying to adapt ( think they might be for like a early 5300 LS engine). I also bought a short wire set that will work with them, but not the correct coil pack. It has been too long to even attempt a refund on the bracket, the wires, or the coil packs, so it comes down to minimizing the loss. I can use the coil packs, and mount them under the intake, and buy new wires.
2. I actually prefer the factory cover that covers the spark plug valley, and the cam gears as opposed to mounting the coils there and having to either do away with the cover, or hack it up. I’d mount the coils out of sight, then run a longer wire under the cover at the rear, or conversely I’d run wires between the intake runners and over the intake cam cover. Doing that means I gotta cut up the cover though. Not liking that plan.
None of this HAS to be decided today though,..so I’m gonna move that to the back burner.


The steering conversion will probably be what I focus on though....I’ve just about worked out all of the small stuff, I’ve bought all of the universal joints/couplers required to tie it into the steering rack. I’ve got a plan for how it’s gonna mount....it’s all down to doing it.
 
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Hoytster

I don't dare do that to my Knob
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Jan 22, 2020
#11,056
  • Jan 22, 2020
  • #11,056
There is a very good reason you are supposed to replace TTY bolts after the first use. I personally would never run a used set of TTY bolts on any engine I care about.

I could try to explain the engineering behind it but posting this link is easier.
http://repair.alldata.com/online2he...n't_torque-to-yield_head_bolts_be_re-used.htm
 

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.
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#11,057
  • Jan 22, 2020
  • #11,057
CarMichael Angelo said:
Ok..I’m off today. Decisions.......

Today I gotta decide whether or not to leave the existing main cap bolts in place, or use the new ones that are laying on the bench downstairs. On one hand.......the damn bolts are torqued and didn’t break. They didn’t do anything weird, they pulled to torque, and then allowed me to pull them another 75 degrees past the torque point. The one side of my brain says to leave them, and store the other bolts in case something fails in this engine ( other than a main cap bolt) and I need them.
The other will be the worry that they’ll fail at some point. When you read the freakin instructions in the manual about assembling the engine, and read about the TTY sequence,..it says install the bolts, torque them to 44 ftlbs, pull them another 90 degrees. If one of them fails, replace it. ...( This is for a new freakin bolt....the phckin things can fail the first time you pull them).
So.....this is thing one.
If I decide to leave them, or if I decide to replace them,...I can put the oil pan on today.
The other thing is whether or not to double check that freakin pan for leaks. ( maybe it’s triple check...I-I-I don’t know anymore)
If I focus on that......if I decide to stay on that path, verify that the pan don’t leak, I can put the damn thing on the engine. I could put the cams on,....I could bolt the engine to the transmission,...I could put the engine in the car, I could make mounts for it...
But, there are other things I want to do to the engine while it’s out and on a stand....I need to see about either using the factory compressor, or adapting my Sanden unit to the engine instead. Building a bracket for that would be sooo much easier if the engine is right in front of me, as opposed to having to lay on my back. Yeah.........much better.

I bought one of these plates to mount the coil packs...

it cost 99.00 bucks. I bought the thing a long time ago as I’ve been amassing parts for the engine. Last Sunday I decided to get it out, and bolt the coil packs to it. Two things:
1. The freakin coil packs that I bought an even longer time ago are wrong. The bolt hole arrangement is parallel to the length of the coil, and they are too long To even consider trying to adapt ( think they might be for like a early 5300 LS engine). I also bought a short wire set that will work with them, but not the correct coil pack. It has been too long to even attempt a refund on the bracket, the wires, or the coil packs, so it comes down to minimizing the loss. I can use the coil packs, and mount them under the intake, and buy new wires.
2. I actually prefer the factory cover that covers the spark plug valley, and the cam gears as opposed to mounting the coils there and having to either do away with the cover, or hack it up. I’d mount the coils out of sight, then run a longer wire under the cover at the rear, or conversely I’d run wires between the intake runners and over the intake cam cover. Doing that means I gotta cut up the cover though. Not liking that plan.
None of this HAS to be decided today though,..so I’m gonna move that to the back burner.


The steering conversion will probably be what I focus on though....I’ve just about worked out all of the small stuff, I’ve bought all of the universal joints/couplers required to tie it into the steering rack. I’ve got a plan for how it’s gonna mount....it’s all down to doing it.
Click to expand...
Hoytster said:
There is a very good reason you are supposed to replace TTY bolts after the first use. I personally would never run a used set of TTY bolts on any engine I care about.

I could try to explain the engineering behind it but posting this link is easier.
http://repair.alldata.com/online2he...n't_torque-to-yield_head_bolts_be_re-used.htm
Click to expand...

Some of your Asian makes actually allow TTY bolts to be reused under certain circumstances. Hyundai/Kia head bolts come to mind, as there is actually a procedure to measure and inspect them to see if they're reusable once removed, and an adjusted torque sequence when they're re-used.

If something like that exists for the 2JZ main bolts, and you followed it, you're fine. If not, change them, it'll take all of another hour.
 

Hoytster

I don't dare do that to my Knob
20+ Year Stangneter
Dec 30, 2002
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Jan 22, 2020
#11,058
  • Jan 22, 2020
  • #11,058
I've seen that before but didn't want to get into the weeds since, from what I've seen, that's usually a limited OEM specific case. They engineer that into the fastener design or found that the fastener doesn't meet max yield after initial torquing so there is a certain amount of stretch still available in the fastener before the clamping ability starts to decline.

I have not known Toyota to specify a stretch range for their TTY main bolts in the 2JZ. The ones I've seen built by what I consider to be a very knowledgeable guy always received new bolts or ARP hardware because of this. I have heard of guys reusing them with no issues, but I see no logic in this if you can find new bolts and have the time to put them in.
 
Reactions: Adieu

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
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polk county florida
Jan 22, 2020
#11,059
  • Jan 22, 2020
  • #11,059
Change them, or you will worry yourself to death.
Don't give the 3and something to pester you about.
 
Reactions: Adieu and Hoytster

hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis
15 Year Member
Dec 14, 2010
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SW Houston
Jan 22, 2020
#11,060
  • Jan 22, 2020
  • #11,060
Sorry to backtrack here Mike, but the EPS intrigues me. The unit bolts under the dash in line with the column? Interesting. I had made the poor assumption that it was tied into the rack somehow.
 
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