I have owned my 86 GT convertible 5 spd since 1993. Engine temp gauge went from 1/2 to 3/4 on stock temp gauge approximately in 1997 while stuck in traffic with AC running. Fast forward 12 years and 100,000 miles and I am retired. While searching for the cause over that time period I replaced the water pump with an 86 pump from Ford, several new thermostats, tried flushing block more than once, new 3 row griffin aluminum radiator, checked temperature with both a mechanical and electrical gauge, etc, etc, etc. I no longer have the AC installed and all traces of the system were removed years ago. I have no antifreeze leaks, I have read the threads concerning overheating. Engine always runs at 210 degrees unless the ambient temperature is below 50 degrees. Temperatures increase as rpms increase. I have good condition quality hoses and my lower radiator hose has a solid spring running all the way through. Air/fuel mix is correct based on spark plugs and has been reviewed by myself and mechanics. Mechanics have just said to drive it or pay them and they will search for a cause. Engine runs fine other than over time and abuse its lost its hyperactive nature just like its antique owner. Carcomputer will no longer go to WOT. Ambient temperatures were about 90 degrees yesterday, rpms in 2 to 2500 while rowing gears and then while coasting in 5th at about 1700 rpms temp went to 214 and refused to drop back to 210. Today it made a 7 mile trip to Lowe’s and on the return journey and in 80 degree ambient temperature and 1700 rpm it went to 211. Being an 86 I believe the temp should be around 195 unless the engine is being pushed at 2000rpm and up. The sending unit for the electrical temp gauge is mounted in the thermostat housing. The engine is stock, fan housing excellent, clutch fan assembly very good condition. Ford service guy and fox body owner told me years ago that the “head bolts for the “junk” turbo swirl heads”might have stretched slightly” yet I have never found any indication of leaking in the engine or cooling system. One thread said if temp increases at highway speeds it is an airflow issue or water pump. I’m willing to try another water pump but don’t know which one to choose. Getting old and I still haven’t figured this out. You’re thoughts please.
Engine 1986 5.0 over heating
- Thread starter Greg bailey
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08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Sorry to hear,
I’ll say a “Thank you” up front for the detailed information. Almost NEVER happens.
Have you tried pulling engine Codes (even with no CEL they may be present). The Ford OE Pump is the best choice, other OE parts Underhood work best as well.
If you’ve replaced it with OEM, I’d not waste the $$ on another just yet. Aftermarket parts more times than not point to issues rather than superiority.
Any questions regarding below, please ask.
Let’s establish a baseline & figure this out, plenty of good minds here always willing to help. Tell that Mechanic to go SCREW himself.(Pun intended, HIGHLY). lol!
Mentioned as Stock, Is the Car modified in any way, Exhaust, Pulleys? Still a Speed Density platform, or converted to Mass Air?
First pass, I’d check:
1) Air/Fuel Ratio. Mixture was checked- do you recall the numbers, have a printout? Fuel Pump Pressure/Flow should be verified. Injector Cleaner in tank.
2) Ignition Timing, Idle and Advance, rate of Advance. Diaphragm on Distributor, anomaly within Distributor, Sensors, corrupt programming.
3) Leaky Head Gasket causing Cylinder to Cylinder leak, or small Combustion leak entering coolant (May see small bubbles within coolant, engine running, Cap off). Or, check for Hydrocarbons & other Gases in Coolant. Coolant elements in Oil.
4) Coolant temperature Sensor, Engine management.
5) Exhaust obstruction, clogged Catalytic converters.
6) EGR Valve function test
7) PCV Valve function.
8) Airbound Coolant System
9) Thermostat installed backwards
Which of the above are you 100% on, to begin ruling them out & moving on?
What do you mean, precisely- regarding the comment posted “CPU will no longer go full Throttle”?
The Car’s lost some of its power, you’d mentioned. It should still feel strong, with regular Oil & Filter changes..
Wait for your reply.
-John
I’ll say a “Thank you” up front for the detailed information. Almost NEVER happens.
Have you tried pulling engine Codes (even with no CEL they may be present). The Ford OE Pump is the best choice, other OE parts Underhood work best as well.
If you’ve replaced it with OEM, I’d not waste the $$ on another just yet. Aftermarket parts more times than not point to issues rather than superiority.
Any questions regarding below, please ask.
Let’s establish a baseline & figure this out, plenty of good minds here always willing to help. Tell that Mechanic to go SCREW himself.(Pun intended, HIGHLY). lol!
Mentioned as Stock, Is the Car modified in any way, Exhaust, Pulleys? Still a Speed Density platform, or converted to Mass Air?
First pass, I’d check:
1) Air/Fuel Ratio. Mixture was checked- do you recall the numbers, have a printout? Fuel Pump Pressure/Flow should be verified. Injector Cleaner in tank.
2) Ignition Timing, Idle and Advance, rate of Advance. Diaphragm on Distributor, anomaly within Distributor, Sensors, corrupt programming.
3) Leaky Head Gasket causing Cylinder to Cylinder leak, or small Combustion leak entering coolant (May see small bubbles within coolant, engine running, Cap off). Or, check for Hydrocarbons & other Gases in Coolant. Coolant elements in Oil.
4) Coolant temperature Sensor, Engine management.
5) Exhaust obstruction, clogged Catalytic converters.
6) EGR Valve function test
7) PCV Valve function.
8) Airbound Coolant System
9) Thermostat installed backwards
Which of the above are you 100% on, to begin ruling them out & moving on?
What do you mean, precisely- regarding the comment posted “CPU will no longer go full Throttle”?
The Car’s lost some of its power, you’d mentioned. It should still feel strong, with regular Oil & Filter changes..
Wait for your reply.
-John
Install a mechanical temp gauge, even temporary just to verify the actual engine temps, the factory gauge is a 'best guess' and can read different from one sending unit to another, also if the sender was installed with teflon tape the readings will be off do to resistance to ground.
that is the first step I would take.
that is the first step I would take.
Thank you for your response.
Up front let me ask you to imagine a dog chasing his tail - I was that dog. That said I am responding based on my notes, memory, and parts receipts or shop receipts. The engine operating temperature shifted from 195 to 210 degrees around 1995. Basically I stopped looking for answers to my engine’s 210 degree operating temperature around 2012. The engine currently has 217,380 miles and is typically driven about once or twice a week for perhaps a 15 to 20 mile round trip. The engine has not been modified in any way. I swapped the car to 20W/50 synthetic oil shortly after acquiring the vehicle in May 1993 and it has received excellent maintenance and regular attention until it was no longer my daily driver in 2007. The vehicle has always been garaged when not in use.
Referencing the above list of questions:
1). Air/fuel ratio. All verifications were based on spark plug color by myself and mechanics such as Garrett Motorsports. I verified burns at extended low revs and also at highway romps. I haven’t used injector cleaner recently but always burn premium and now use Sta-Bil in the fuel mix.
2). I have used 10 degree advanced timing. While searching for answers on the overheating issue I tested stock vs advanced timing and found it did not resolve my operating temperature issue. There is no diaphragm on my distributor that I am aware of.
3). Leaky head gasket - my only checks for this were multiple checks for any mix of fluids and for air bubbles in the radiator.
4). Coolant temperature sensor - I made an extensive search for an OEM part years ago and was unable to find one. Thought I finally had and purchased a part from Mustangs Unlimited however they sent me Motorcraft DY-1145 which was not a direct replacement as advertised and I was unwilling to cut up my wiring harness to install it. I’m also extremely concerned by after market replacements so I have never tested a replacement to see if it helped.
5). Never pressure tested catalytic converters. Researched them while looking for answers to my 210 degree operating temperature and learned that symptoms of failure typically show up when the cats get wet during rainy day driving. Other that that it has only been checking flow from exhaust tips. I also know the original owner had the cats replaced under a Ford recall before I purchased the car in 1993.
6). EGR valve - car computer showed codes 33 and 44. Code 33 is the EGR valve was not detected as opening. After research I purchased a replacement EVR valve from NAPA(E63Z*9J459*A). The valve repairs the EGR however the car has less power when the EGR was working so on 8/11/2012 I chose to reinstall the defective EVR. Note that while repaired the operating temperature remained 210 degrees.
7). PCV valve and hose were replaced and tested while checking for overheating.
8). Assume you are referring to air removal from the cooling system. Checked yesterday and I did have to add a a very small amount of coolant and burp the upper radiator hose. Lower radiator hose connection at aluminum radiator does have a very slight drip when garage temperatures drop below 40 degrees during winter storage. That may explain the issue with the temp reaching 214 degrees a couple of days back. Thanks.
9). Thermostat is installed correctly and has been replaced multiple times - dog chasing his tail.
Concerning the CPU will not go WOT. You know how if you advance the throttle a bit faster than normal the computer system switches the engine control systems to hyper acceleration. That system became intermittent during the year 2000 and eventually stopped working altogether perhaps by 2002. In researching that I read where aftermarket car alarm systems could damage a cars electronic systems over time. I had an alarm system installed shortly after purchasing the car based on the strong recommendation of the previous owner. The car operated perfectly for a number of years after the system was installed. However after researching the WOT issue I had the alarm system removed. Never thought it would happen but I understand only 18% of today’s population can drive a stick shift. In a sense my 5 spd trans has become my cars anti-theft device. In my research I had also learned that engine wear might also render the WOT system inoperable. For some reason engine wear at the cam shaft lingers in my mind. Perhaps around 2007 while still chasing my tail I purchased a VM1 cpu off EBAY for $25 (E6SF-12A650-M1B) but never tested it. Discovered my CPU was a rare R (Georgia) code. Research indicated that the sensors working with an R code may have slightly different values than those working with an M code CPU. Research also explained that I would have to wreck the sheet metal behind the passenger side kick panel just to remove my factory cpu. Given the above and the chances my $25 cpu might even work I chose to leave things alone rather than chance damaging anything.
“As for running strong” - the mechanics that test drove it years ago thought it was running very well but they weren’t nailing the throttle. After the WOT stopped working I tended to run longer higher revs to build speed. I really don’t know how much timing advance I was or am getting at this time. The trans, shifter, billet flywheel, heavier clutch, adjustable clutch, aluminum driveshaft were a Ford Motorsports offering I took advantage of when the factory trans input shaft bearing failed at 139,000 miles in 1997. I have learned this system easily provides acceptable acceleration simply by using fast shifts, keeping rpms typically below 3000 and without dropping rpms between shifts. It’s become second nature once I learned and adapted. The engine doesn’t burn oil which says something considering the 217000 miles.
Final thoughts: in researching my notes, parts receipts, and paid service receipts I am unable to pinpoint even which year the overheating issue began. All I remember was sitting in traffic with the AC running when the factory temp gauge shifted from 1/2 way to 3/4 way in a matter of seconds. I immediately pulled over, looked things over, turned off the AC and drove on. This happened perhaps around 1995. I’m sure I was clueless and just ran with the factory idiot gauge at 3/4 while I searched for any possible culprit. It wasn’t until I purchased a mechanical gauge kit that I discovered the engine was running at 210 degrees. I discovered I could crank up the engine cold and over time at idle it would eventually get to 210 and hang there. Driving it around it would get to 210 and stop climbing. I have since replaced that gauge and have the same exact readings.
“Where to now Saint Peter” -
I enjoy driving the car. It’s not the destination - it is the drive.
That said availability of replacement electronic sensors or lack there of is a major concern of mine and I’m not sure whether I should even continue to drive the car. Even the electronic sensors for my 1996 R code truck have already become a problem and they made millions more of them than Ford made of 86 GT 5spd convertible Mustangs. I personally am not one to buy and keep things I do not use or am afraid to use. I would also hate to be the reason for the demise of this car simply because I chose to drive and enjoy it knowing there are no longer the correct electronic systems/parts to fix it.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Thank you
Up front let me ask you to imagine a dog chasing his tail - I was that dog. That said I am responding based on my notes, memory, and parts receipts or shop receipts. The engine operating temperature shifted from 195 to 210 degrees around 1995. Basically I stopped looking for answers to my engine’s 210 degree operating temperature around 2012. The engine currently has 217,380 miles and is typically driven about once or twice a week for perhaps a 15 to 20 mile round trip. The engine has not been modified in any way. I swapped the car to 20W/50 synthetic oil shortly after acquiring the vehicle in May 1993 and it has received excellent maintenance and regular attention until it was no longer my daily driver in 2007. The vehicle has always been garaged when not in use.
Referencing the above list of questions:
1). Air/fuel ratio. All verifications were based on spark plug color by myself and mechanics such as Garrett Motorsports. I verified burns at extended low revs and also at highway romps. I haven’t used injector cleaner recently but always burn premium and now use Sta-Bil in the fuel mix.
2). I have used 10 degree advanced timing. While searching for answers on the overheating issue I tested stock vs advanced timing and found it did not resolve my operating temperature issue. There is no diaphragm on my distributor that I am aware of.
3). Leaky head gasket - my only checks for this were multiple checks for any mix of fluids and for air bubbles in the radiator.
4). Coolant temperature sensor - I made an extensive search for an OEM part years ago and was unable to find one. Thought I finally had and purchased a part from Mustangs Unlimited however they sent me Motorcraft DY-1145 which was not a direct replacement as advertised and I was unwilling to cut up my wiring harness to install it. I’m also extremely concerned by after market replacements so I have never tested a replacement to see if it helped.
5). Never pressure tested catalytic converters. Researched them while looking for answers to my 210 degree operating temperature and learned that symptoms of failure typically show up when the cats get wet during rainy day driving. Other that that it has only been checking flow from exhaust tips. I also know the original owner had the cats replaced under a Ford recall before I purchased the car in 1993.
6). EGR valve - car computer showed codes 33 and 44. Code 33 is the EGR valve was not detected as opening. After research I purchased a replacement EVR valve from NAPA(E63Z*9J459*A). The valve repairs the EGR however the car has less power when the EGR was working so on 8/11/2012 I chose to reinstall the defective EVR. Note that while repaired the operating temperature remained 210 degrees.
7). PCV valve and hose were replaced and tested while checking for overheating.
8). Assume you are referring to air removal from the cooling system. Checked yesterday and I did have to add a a very small amount of coolant and burp the upper radiator hose. Lower radiator hose connection at aluminum radiator does have a very slight drip when garage temperatures drop below 40 degrees during winter storage. That may explain the issue with the temp reaching 214 degrees a couple of days back. Thanks.
9). Thermostat is installed correctly and has been replaced multiple times - dog chasing his tail.
Concerning the CPU will not go WOT. You know how if you advance the throttle a bit faster than normal the computer system switches the engine control systems to hyper acceleration. That system became intermittent during the year 2000 and eventually stopped working altogether perhaps by 2002. In researching that I read where aftermarket car alarm systems could damage a cars electronic systems over time. I had an alarm system installed shortly after purchasing the car based on the strong recommendation of the previous owner. The car operated perfectly for a number of years after the system was installed. However after researching the WOT issue I had the alarm system removed. Never thought it would happen but I understand only 18% of today’s population can drive a stick shift. In a sense my 5 spd trans has become my cars anti-theft device. In my research I had also learned that engine wear might also render the WOT system inoperable. For some reason engine wear at the cam shaft lingers in my mind. Perhaps around 2007 while still chasing my tail I purchased a VM1 cpu off EBAY for $25 (E6SF-12A650-M1B) but never tested it. Discovered my CPU was a rare R (Georgia) code. Research indicated that the sensors working with an R code may have slightly different values than those working with an M code CPU. Research also explained that I would have to wreck the sheet metal behind the passenger side kick panel just to remove my factory cpu. Given the above and the chances my $25 cpu might even work I chose to leave things alone rather than chance damaging anything.
“As for running strong” - the mechanics that test drove it years ago thought it was running very well but they weren’t nailing the throttle. After the WOT stopped working I tended to run longer higher revs to build speed. I really don’t know how much timing advance I was or am getting at this time. The trans, shifter, billet flywheel, heavier clutch, adjustable clutch, aluminum driveshaft were a Ford Motorsports offering I took advantage of when the factory trans input shaft bearing failed at 139,000 miles in 1997. I have learned this system easily provides acceptable acceleration simply by using fast shifts, keeping rpms typically below 3000 and without dropping rpms between shifts. It’s become second nature once I learned and adapted. The engine doesn’t burn oil which says something considering the 217000 miles.
Final thoughts: in researching my notes, parts receipts, and paid service receipts I am unable to pinpoint even which year the overheating issue began. All I remember was sitting in traffic with the AC running when the factory temp gauge shifted from 1/2 way to 3/4 way in a matter of seconds. I immediately pulled over, looked things over, turned off the AC and drove on. This happened perhaps around 1995. I’m sure I was clueless and just ran with the factory idiot gauge at 3/4 while I searched for any possible culprit. It wasn’t until I purchased a mechanical gauge kit that I discovered the engine was running at 210 degrees. I discovered I could crank up the engine cold and over time at idle it would eventually get to 210 and hang there. Driving it around it would get to 210 and stop climbing. I have since replaced that gauge and have the same exact readings.
“Where to now Saint Peter” -
I enjoy driving the car. It’s not the destination - it is the drive.
That said availability of replacement electronic sensors or lack there of is a major concern of mine and I’m not sure whether I should even continue to drive the car. Even the electronic sensors for my 1996 R code truck have already become a problem and they made millions more of them than Ford made of 86 GT 5spd convertible Mustangs. I personally am not one to buy and keep things I do not use or am afraid to use. I would also hate to be the reason for the demise of this car simply because I chose to drive and enjoy it knowing there are no longer the correct electronic systems/parts to fix it.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Thank you
The DY-1145 is a sensor not a sender, to be clear, the sensor is like a information source for the computer, the sender is for the gauge in the dash, two different things in two different places.
Never heard of an R code (Georgia?) Cpu, not saying one does not exist, just I've never heard of one.
How old is the water pump? Did not see (or I just missed it) about it being changed.
210* with the ac on in traffic would not be unusual.
Belt slippage or fan clutch could cause higher temps too.
and not sure what is meant by WOT (wide open throttle) not working but the symptom you describe would indicate a fuel delivery problem, low fuel pressure or regulator malfunction.
for some help on where and how to remove your computer go to the tech/how to thread and look for the surging idle checklist, I think you need not mess with your computer because it gives you codes but just to be clear the computer can be removed and installed without destroying nothing but some skin on your knuckles.
Get a Ford repair manual, tons of 'how to do it right' info there.
Never heard of an R code (Georgia?) Cpu, not saying one does not exist, just I've never heard of one.
How old is the water pump? Did not see (or I just missed it) about it being changed.
210* with the ac on in traffic would not be unusual.
Belt slippage or fan clutch could cause higher temps too.
and not sure what is meant by WOT (wide open throttle) not working but the symptom you describe would indicate a fuel delivery problem, low fuel pressure or regulator malfunction.
for some help on where and how to remove your computer go to the tech/how to thread and look for the surging idle checklist, I think you need not mess with your computer because it gives you codes but just to be clear the computer can be removed and installed without destroying nothing but some skin on your knuckles.
Get a Ford repair manual, tons of 'how to do it right' info there.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hello there,
I agree with the others, 210’F is within normal ranges, iproviding it’s stable. I do understand your concerns, You need to be willing to replace certain to locate the origin of the problem.I.e; Replace ECU with your spare.
You certainly need to replace old Hoses & make the entire system airtight..If you’re getting a drip out, you’re likely pulling air in.
Jack the nose of the Car up to allow the air to rise to the highest point & evacuate all the air out.:
As suggested, Acquire a Shop” manual, Very important.
1) Your CPU’s “R” Code is likely a “VR1”.
2) CPU R & R is easily performed without cutting anything. (All in the Manual).
3) 86’s ran a few EEC’s, most common; VH2 (E6SF-12A650-H1C)..
4) You may run a VM1 (Which you bought) VP1, VR1, most plentiful is the DA1 out of 87’-88’ SD, Mustangs..MUST be a 5Spd.CPU.
5) Know that the 86’ was the 1st SEFI & an Auto Trans CPU in a 5 Spd.86’ May melt traces off the CPU’s PCB.,(02 Sensor circuits)...The FULL ID# has that info. Post it.
6) ECT Sensor replacement link below, 86’ parts quite plentiful online, LMR, Summit, Jeg’s, Rock Auto has the best prices.
OE replacement is best. Call before purchase, ensure it’s the correct Sensor
As mentioned above, motor has
TWO.:
https://www.carparts.com/details/Fo...Cyl_5-dot-0L/REPF312803.html?showfitment=true
Breaking it down..
1) Exhaust restriction.
2) Test the resistance@ ECTS with a VOM , Cold, Hot.
3) Have your 02’s ever been replaced? Don’t test them with a VOM on resistance or damage will result. Test output Viltage in parallel, (use a pin to pierce insulation) engine running, ground the other lead.
3) Add a 180’ T-Stat.
4) Add a 70/30 Coolant mixture
5) 20-50 Oil? Did you add this due to mileage, or to cure an issue? Run 10-30.”High Mileage” Synthetic.
6) Pull the lines off your Heater Core & verify no restrictions, use a Garden hose to verify circulation, or temporarily bypass.
7) Any chance you’re not running a CCW Pump? If it’s a Clockwise rotating Pump, that could explain that issue..
8) Perform a Fuel Pump reassure/volume test. Check your F.P.R.for fuel in its vacuum line in your your mouth, taste Fuel? It’ requires replacement.
9) Do a Cylinder Pressure/leakdown test. You may also pressurize each Cylinder with 10lbs of compressed air, be sure the Cylinder tested is at BDC, or it may push the Piston down, rotating the Crank, look for Bubbles.in your coolant.
10) The only reason the Cam could be involved is if the Exhaust loves were so worn it wouldn’t allow enough exhaust Valve lift, trapping superheated gases within the chamber, causing excessive heat & heating up the fuel charge, doubtful .
11) RE,:EGR, still the Smog Pump, have AIT Injection lines hooked up to
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Darn internet dropped out, was Cutoff, sorry, Meant to continue with how much of your emissions equipment are still on the Car? Still have the Smog Pump, etc, are the Catalytic Converters factory? Know you replaced Exhaust, uncertain how much. The EGR functioning is something that shouldn’t affect performance, CPU changes tables, slightly, with it functioning. If you desire it’s removal, there’s a termination plug for the plug that goes to it, block off plate. No codes will be stored in your CPU.
Only A few degrees is the difference between the notoriously unreliable factory gauge at 1/2, going to 3/4. 220 Degrees is a normal operating range for a 1986 5.0 w/OE T’stat. If it’s in the 230 degree zone, then I’d be concerned.
Honestly, I’d be going after that WOT anomaly, the car running right is the real goal, here. Then, taking it for a good romp and trying to make the temp rise under those conditions will tell you if it’s an issue exists, or not. If your newer Radiator was used, send it out to get boiled, any blocked passages will then then be cleared.
Check your Heater Core for blockages, or bypass it, temporarily.
Realistically, you’re basing that is was running at 195F on pure speculation from the OE gauge, the day this started. Which equates to a few degrees. You then installed a good gauge and got 210Deg.F, which really is within the normal range. You’ll note this in the Tech. Manual specifications.
Some Fords with electric fans will not trigger the high speed/second fan until 210-215 Deg., I’d listed many reasons for typical higher temps, if the Car’s not overflowing and is running right, not detonating nor racing into the 250 Degree zone, hanging between 210 and 215 Degrees no matter the ambient temp and driving style, you’re OK.
I had a friend over this morning with his stock 87’5.0, my IR laser caught a high temp of 208F, it’s at 168K, all original. He’s driven it from Mass to Illinois this year with no issues.
Air inlets arein front down near the lower valence provides air while driving, ensure they are installed, the Clutch fan having any grease on/near it suggests slippage, needs replacing. Set Fan & shroud clearance at 1/2” away from fan blades, 50% fan into the shroud, 50% hanging out.
Running a flex-o-lite Fan is also an idea, they flatten out during higher RPM’s, reducing parasitic loss.
Most OE parts are available from LMR, and 86-93 parts, in many cases they are the same. Verifying tests above will prevent you from having a component failure later.
Your Car is at a good temperature for what it was designed for. Nobody wants a meltdown, nor steer you into the path of one.
Use Ford OE parts, and you’ll be just fine, if the Pump you installed wasn’t one, replace it if you desire. Not telling you to throw money at it, only to replace components that are out of Spec’s, or have apparent issues.
Acquire a 12 Oz container of Redline’s “Water Wetter”, see if you lose a few Degrees of Engine Coolant temp.
There’s more than just one Ford mechanic that’s correlated this temperature as normal.
Highly unlikely any motor, in an overheated state would yield you another 100,000 Miles, and still have more to give. Do a tuneup, replacing any sensors that are not within spec’s, if original factory Sensors- they have exceeded their typical lifespan. Getting the Car to function (WOT) as it should, is #1, see what occurs when the dust settles.
Nobody would gire erroneous information , here. If somebody’s off, it’s quickly corrected by another. If you need help with anything, please feel free to ask.
Should be driving and enjoying the Car without concern, all been there.
Has the Car ever raced past 210-215 to full over boil? I don’t recall you mentioning it. Anything I’m incorrect on, feel free to add it, so responses may be more specific.. I’m basing my response(s) off what you’ve texted thus far.
Good luck!
-John
Only A few degrees is the difference between the notoriously unreliable factory gauge at 1/2, going to 3/4. 220 Degrees is a normal operating range for a 1986 5.0 w/OE T’stat. If it’s in the 230 degree zone, then I’d be concerned.
Honestly, I’d be going after that WOT anomaly, the car running right is the real goal, here. Then, taking it for a good romp and trying to make the temp rise under those conditions will tell you if it’s an issue exists, or not. If your newer Radiator was used, send it out to get boiled, any blocked passages will then then be cleared.
Check your Heater Core for blockages, or bypass it, temporarily.
Realistically, you’re basing that is was running at 195F on pure speculation from the OE gauge, the day this started. Which equates to a few degrees. You then installed a good gauge and got 210Deg.F, which really is within the normal range. You’ll note this in the Tech. Manual specifications.
Some Fords with electric fans will not trigger the high speed/second fan until 210-215 Deg., I’d listed many reasons for typical higher temps, if the Car’s not overflowing and is running right, not detonating nor racing into the 250 Degree zone, hanging between 210 and 215 Degrees no matter the ambient temp and driving style, you’re OK.
I had a friend over this morning with his stock 87’5.0, my IR laser caught a high temp of 208F, it’s at 168K, all original. He’s driven it from Mass to Illinois this year with no issues.
Air inlets arein front down near the lower valence provides air while driving, ensure they are installed, the Clutch fan having any grease on/near it suggests slippage, needs replacing. Set Fan & shroud clearance at 1/2” away from fan blades, 50% fan into the shroud, 50% hanging out.
Running a flex-o-lite Fan is also an idea, they flatten out during higher RPM’s, reducing parasitic loss.
Most OE parts are available from LMR, and 86-93 parts, in many cases they are the same. Verifying tests above will prevent you from having a component failure later.
Your Car is at a good temperature for what it was designed for. Nobody wants a meltdown, nor steer you into the path of one.
Use Ford OE parts, and you’ll be just fine, if the Pump you installed wasn’t one, replace it if you desire. Not telling you to throw money at it, only to replace components that are out of Spec’s, or have apparent issues.
Acquire a 12 Oz container of Redline’s “Water Wetter”, see if you lose a few Degrees of Engine Coolant temp.
There’s more than just one Ford mechanic that’s correlated this temperature as normal.
Highly unlikely any motor, in an overheated state would yield you another 100,000 Miles, and still have more to give. Do a tuneup, replacing any sensors that are not within spec’s, if original factory Sensors- they have exceeded their typical lifespan. Getting the Car to function (WOT) as it should, is #1, see what occurs when the dust settles.
Nobody would gire erroneous information , here. If somebody’s off, it’s quickly corrected by another. If you need help with anything, please feel free to ask.
Should be driving and enjoying the Car without concern, all been there.
Has the Car ever raced past 210-215 to full over boil? I don’t recall you mentioning it. Anything I’m incorrect on, feel free to add it, so responses may be more specific.. I’m basing my response(s) off what you’ve texted thus far.
Good luck!
-John
Thank you John for your well thought out response.
I understand how that darn internet drops out sometimes. Squirrel shorted out power lines on my street this morning. Everyone is entitled a mistake now and then.
Yes - my car ECA is a VR1. The VM1 I acquired is a E6SF-12A650-M1B. Looking online most of the posts associate this cpu with a 5spd which would then make it compatible with my car.
I haven’t looked online yet to see the availability of the ECT and if it’s a direct replacement for the one that is about 7” from the thermostat housing and is screwed into one of the metal pipes which run to the heater core. Years ago while chasing my tail I checked water flow through the heater core - no problem there.
The 20W/50 oil is an old school make me feel better kinda when I was abusing my 1st car - triple black 1970 Mach 1. Yes - I have many regrets. Police targeted the group I associated with - 1969 SuperBee, BMW 2002Tii, 1960’s Corvair with huge big block where the back seat used to be, an SS 396, and one biker. It was a brutal summer. Cops and my Dad came to an agreement and the Mach 1 departed without me and I held onto my license by a thread.
You have given me a lot to think about. Did go for a test ride this morning. Traffic wasn’t the best - ran 75 mph at about 2000rpm and temperature readings hung around 214. Couple of short hops at 80 mph and 2200rpm and temperature readings remained 214. Got off the highway on a major roadway and lengthy cruise at 55 to 60 mph and around 2000 to 2100 rpm in 4th gear and basically in the 215 temp range. Got onto a 35 mph road and lower revs and temp went to 218. Got home and left car idling and temp stayed about 215 to 217. Put an electric fan blowing into the front of the car for 3 or 4 minutes and temp stayed 215. Turned off fan and idled car up to 2000 rpm and held it and initially the temp slowly dropped to 211 and then began its rise again to 214. Shut engine off. Noted perhaps 8-10 drops of antifreeze had collected on top of the timing chain cover about 2” to the left of the thermostat housing. Noted later one drop on the engine block directly behind the thermostat housing. No traces of antifreeze or liquids noted in exhaust tips. My piece of tape marking the coolant level in the overflow tank blew off during the test drive so was unable to verify radiator cap lifted to allow coolant to flow into the overflow tank. Did note after 3 hours of cooling down no fluid was sucked out of the overflow tank and back into the radiator. Checked and all connections on the coolant recovery system felt tight and passage tubes were open and suction did pull liquid from the overflow tank. Swapped radiator cap to a Ford 16# cap for future test.
Cranked car again - noticed what I considered to be poor airflow from exhaust tips for an idling 5.0. You asked earlier- the cats were replaced by Ford in a recall prior to my purchasing the car at 88,000 miles in May 1993. No replacement since then. Don’t recall ever having O2’s replaced. If I take the car to a muffler shop for testing the back up pressure and they decide the cats are plugged up then what are my options and what would each option involve? If cats are plugged I would assume O2’s should also be replaced.
I understand how that darn internet drops out sometimes. Squirrel shorted out power lines on my street this morning. Everyone is entitled a mistake now and then.
Yes - my car ECA is a VR1. The VM1 I acquired is a E6SF-12A650-M1B. Looking online most of the posts associate this cpu with a 5spd which would then make it compatible with my car.
I haven’t looked online yet to see the availability of the ECT and if it’s a direct replacement for the one that is about 7” from the thermostat housing and is screwed into one of the metal pipes which run to the heater core. Years ago while chasing my tail I checked water flow through the heater core - no problem there.
The 20W/50 oil is an old school make me feel better kinda when I was abusing my 1st car - triple black 1970 Mach 1. Yes - I have many regrets. Police targeted the group I associated with - 1969 SuperBee, BMW 2002Tii, 1960’s Corvair with huge big block where the back seat used to be, an SS 396, and one biker. It was a brutal summer. Cops and my Dad came to an agreement and the Mach 1 departed without me and I held onto my license by a thread.
You have given me a lot to think about. Did go for a test ride this morning. Traffic wasn’t the best - ran 75 mph at about 2000rpm and temperature readings hung around 214. Couple of short hops at 80 mph and 2200rpm and temperature readings remained 214. Got off the highway on a major roadway and lengthy cruise at 55 to 60 mph and around 2000 to 2100 rpm in 4th gear and basically in the 215 temp range. Got onto a 35 mph road and lower revs and temp went to 218. Got home and left car idling and temp stayed about 215 to 217. Put an electric fan blowing into the front of the car for 3 or 4 minutes and temp stayed 215. Turned off fan and idled car up to 2000 rpm and held it and initially the temp slowly dropped to 211 and then began its rise again to 214. Shut engine off. Noted perhaps 8-10 drops of antifreeze had collected on top of the timing chain cover about 2” to the left of the thermostat housing. Noted later one drop on the engine block directly behind the thermostat housing. No traces of antifreeze or liquids noted in exhaust tips. My piece of tape marking the coolant level in the overflow tank blew off during the test drive so was unable to verify radiator cap lifted to allow coolant to flow into the overflow tank. Did note after 3 hours of cooling down no fluid was sucked out of the overflow tank and back into the radiator. Checked and all connections on the coolant recovery system felt tight and passage tubes were open and suction did pull liquid from the overflow tank. Swapped radiator cap to a Ford 16# cap for future test.
Cranked car again - noticed what I considered to be poor airflow from exhaust tips for an idling 5.0. You asked earlier- the cats were replaced by Ford in a recall prior to my purchasing the car at 88,000 miles in May 1993. No replacement since then. Don’t recall ever having O2’s replaced. If I take the car to a muffler shop for testing the back up pressure and they decide the cats are plugged up then what are my options and what would each option involve? If cats are plugged I would assume O2’s should also be replaced.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Your Temp sounds pretty solid to me .Im also a “one off” from the street racing shenanigans I’d pulled in my Teen’s. First Car on the road was a 64’ GTO that I’d restored from bottom up in Smith Vocational H.S.
.No better feeling than to to be in shopweek & restoring my own Car, lol! Used Lead for filler, A.Body Instructor had a Shop that Chopped, Channeled, lowered Cars- mostly Willy’s & 30’ Fords, but did anything.
Great Mentor, learns the correct way, aanle to pursue Automotive & Auto Body, Metal Fab- combined. Was busy.After the Service, I worked at va Shops, then for ROV Tech where my Dad & designing, selling, operating Robotics in Plants all over the US.
Kept folks away from Radiation, hardened robots did the workreducing critical path time Robotic Underwater Vacuuming, Welding, weld inspectons, etc accessing areas otherwise impossible to view & 1,000MWe Plant in 18 Mo.scheduled outage loses 2-2.5 Mil.$ a day from generation loss, alone). later, Company was bought by Rolls Royce. (Nuclear specific underwater Robotics)paid for College & acquired an engineering degree, an Engineerdropped an SD421 out of a 63’ Catalina, stored the 389 & its 3 Speed M/Trans to preserve originatily.
My 1st LEGAL Car on the road I’d restored & painted, Rebuilt a 63’ SD 421, radically- M22 Trans stored the 389(Legal)Shop, leadfiller for seams. A 64’ GTO. Have only a pic of a pic, post it regardless.
Vocational Shop Head was a Chop & Channel guy, Willy’s, 30’s Fordsx, anything. painting he’d done with an airbrush was incredible, as well as the Blown Big Bocks in most, great Mentor !
I feel for you, ridding an AAR Cuda, several 68-69’ R/Air 400 GTO’s, an 87’ GN, a Mach 1, 68’ Mustang, 71 SS;54 Chevelle, 69’ SuperBee :83, 4Zspd, Raim Air, 70’ Charger w/440, LOT’s of 83’90 Mustangs, 2 Saleens, (One 5.8L)...argh! Still have- a 67’ Kellison X300GT Astra kit Car, ground up.(L-79 327/350) , 69’ & 79’ Corvette (s), 87’ GN, (2) 2008 GT500’sz , 1 89’ GT, 1 96” Cobra, 79’ Z28 with a 532. I’m good. Tm good, there.
Oh well,
.No better feeling than to to be in shopweek & restoring my own Car, lol! Used Lead for filler, A.Body Instructor had a Shop that Chopped, Channeled, lowered Cars- mostly Willy’s & 30’ Fords, but did anything.
Great Mentor, learns the correct way, aanle to pursue Automotive & Auto Body, Metal Fab- combined. Was busy.After the Service, I worked at va Shops, then for ROV Tech where my Dad & designing, selling, operating Robotics in Plants all over the US.
Kept folks away from Radiation, hardened robots did the workreducing critical path time Robotic Underwater Vacuuming, Welding, weld inspectons, etc accessing areas otherwise impossible to view & 1,000MWe Plant in 18 Mo.scheduled outage loses 2-2.5 Mil.$ a day from generation loss, alone). later, Company was bought by Rolls Royce. (Nuclear specific underwater Robotics)paid for College & acquired an engineering degree, an Engineerdropped an SD421 out of a 63’ Catalina, stored the 389 & its 3 Speed M/Trans to preserve originatily.
Hi, Yes, slow inconsistent internet speeds, rgoing to Fiber with a 25$ Firestick, Amazon prime(10/$”Mo.) Netflix (8$/Mo). YouTube (Free) has full length Movies, Series, Documentaries, only need a WIFI connection, not a 260$/Mo. Xfinity. setup, all above is 70$/Mo.& runs 10 fold faster than Xfinity Internet speed..Prettgynobvious choice!
My 1st LEGAL Car on the road I’d restored & painted, Rebuilt a 63’ SD 421, radically- M22 Trans stored the 389(Legal)Shop, leadfiller for seams. A 64’ GTO. Have only a pic of a pic, post it regardless.
Vocational Shop Head was a Chop & Channel guy, Willy’s, 30’s Fordsx, anything. painting he’d done with an airbrush was incredible, as well as the Blown Big Bocks in most, great Mentor !
I feel for you, ridding an AAR Cuda, several 68-69’ R/Air 400 GTO’s, an 87’ GN, a Mach 1, 68’ Mustang, 71 SS;54 Chevelle, 69’ SuperBee :83, 4Zspd, Raim Air, 70’ Charger w/440, LOT’s of 83’90 Mustangs, 2 Saleens, (One 5.8L)...argh! Still have- a 67’ Kellison X300GT Astra kit Car, ground up.(L-79 327/350) , 69’ & 79’ Corvette (s), 87’ GN, (2) 2008 GT500’sz , 1 89’ GT, 1 96” Cobra, 79’ Z28 with a 532. I’m good. Tm good, there.
Oh well,
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
Ok, so you going to aim for getting the motor running as it should-Meaning Temperature is stable, going to work towards functionality, look at Temp as secondary, that seem ok?
Lastly, you’re not living in CA.? How strict are your emission Laws?
I’d look for signs of physical 02 Sensor damage & excessive normal wear, but seeing as they are 200K old, I, myself would probably replace them & any other sensor that’s worn, or malfunctions. Don’t purchase through a Shop, any parts you bring in will cost you much less, try one of the spots listed in the below paragraph. One example here:
Your Temp, even being hard on it, sounds pretty solid to me, based on your findings.Sounds relatively stable. Draw a line on your overflow Tank. Isolate all your Coolant “drips”. My guess is it’s the T’stat Housing, or a Coolant line & dripping. Silicone lines are cheap & are excellent, bent to fit perfectly. I’ll help you get past the WOT issue- ok? Others will generally do the same..
Does the WOT throttle issue occur when the engine is still relatively cool, or only fully warm, is Temp influencing WOT , or not a factor?
Many relocate after removal of the CPU for easier access, if you have a Cat obstruction & need new one’s, they’re easy to find, not too steep, monetarily. Will also outflow your OE Cat’s by a mile & still pass Emissions easily. Are you still running the Smog pump AIR, lines bolted up to the rear of each Head? How much Smog is still functioning? The EGR is usually an issue due to excess Carbon buildup, as it’s not revved high & at WOT, that lines up.
You may order any parts you need through Summit, LMR, American Muscle, etc. You can’t find ANY part, I’ll find it for you-k?
The above also stocks Cat’s & full X or H pipes pipes designed bolt up to OE Manifolds, or Shorty/L.T. headers,. As you’re running Duals & not a Y Pipe, it’ll bolt up. Cost is about 350$ for the “direct Boltup” H or X pipes with 50 State legal, high flow Cat’s.
(Brand:BBK) H pipes give more of a nostalgic exhaust tone, X pipes may give a few more Ponies for your Pony, but slightly more expensive.
Both will sound great, link to example:
www.bbkperformance.com
.
Or you can just buy Cats individually & weld in. I do suggest Stainless for longevity, but H. Carbon Steel will work just fine.
-Check your MAP Sensor & ensure it’s not leaking and functioning properly.
Get a SHOP Manual on your Car, Haynes or Chiltons, most walk-in stores will stock them.
The MAP sensor deciphers how much Vacuum is present within the Intake to calculate airflow..It helps the CPU to calculate Fuel/Air Ratio, along with with other sensors. The MAF sensor came in 89’, many convert SD based Motors to this platform. Not all. Opinion is to get it right as-is, think about that in the background. For a stock application, there’s no real need.
Yes, the “Turbo-Swirl” Heads are not the best, but nonetheless work fine, and still should.
-The TPS’s function lies within its name, deciphering how much the butterfly is open. it’s adjustable, is a variable Resistor, and like an old stereo volume control, creating “Static” when older. The TPS May have “dead” spots very similar. as the wiper contacts & changes resistance values the CPU interprets & uses other sensory data to run properly. Mal-adjustment or faulty MAF symptoms are erratic running conditions, idle, may cause a WOT throttle issue on it’s own, or kick you out of running closed loop. Closed loop is where function is based on sensory data based CPU decisions, open loop runs the Car on the default program the CPU has embedded within.
Quick link regarding the adjustment process:
lmr.com
Please post what you desire, willing to help out however possible, if needed.
Good luck!
-John
Ok, so you going to aim for getting the motor running as it should-Meaning Temperature is stable, going to work towards functionality, look at Temp as secondary, that seem ok?
Lastly, you’re not living in CA.? How strict are your emission Laws?
I’d look for signs of physical 02 Sensor damage & excessive normal wear, but seeing as they are 200K old, I, myself would probably replace them & any other sensor that’s worn, or malfunctions. Don’t purchase through a Shop, any parts you bring in will cost you much less, try one of the spots listed in the below paragraph. One example here:
1986 FORD MUSTANG 5.0L 302cid V8 Oxygen (O2) Sensor | RockAuto
RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.
www.rockauto.com
Your Temp, even being hard on it, sounds pretty solid to me, based on your findings.Sounds relatively stable. Draw a line on your overflow Tank. Isolate all your Coolant “drips”. My guess is it’s the T’stat Housing, or a Coolant line & dripping. Silicone lines are cheap & are excellent, bent to fit perfectly. I’ll help you get past the WOT issue- ok? Others will generally do the same..
Does the WOT throttle issue occur when the engine is still relatively cool, or only fully warm, is Temp influencing WOT , or not a factor?
Many relocate after removal of the CPU for easier access, if you have a Cat obstruction & need new one’s, they’re easy to find, not too steep, monetarily. Will also outflow your OE Cat’s by a mile & still pass Emissions easily. Are you still running the Smog pump AIR, lines bolted up to the rear of each Head? How much Smog is still functioning? The EGR is usually an issue due to excess Carbon buildup, as it’s not revved high & at WOT, that lines up.
You may order any parts you need through Summit, LMR, American Muscle, etc. You can’t find ANY part, I’ll find it for you-k?
The above also stocks Cat’s & full X or H pipes pipes designed bolt up to OE Manifolds, or Shorty/L.T. headers,. As you’re running Duals & not a Y Pipe, it’ll bolt up. Cost is about 350$ for the “direct Boltup” H or X pipes with 50 State legal, high flow Cat’s.
(Brand:BBK) H pipes give more of a nostalgic exhaust tone, X pipes may give a few more Ponies for your Pony, but slightly more expensive.
Both will sound great, link to example:
Ford Mustang 5.0L 2-1/2 High Flow Catted H-Pipe 86-93
Free Shipping on Mustang 5.0 2-1/2 In. Catted H-Pipe (86-93). Order Now and Save!
www.bbkperformance.com
Or you can just buy Cats individually & weld in. I do suggest Stainless for longevity, but H. Carbon Steel will work just fine.
-Check your MAP Sensor & ensure it’s not leaking and functioning properly.
Get a SHOP Manual on your Car, Haynes or Chiltons, most walk-in stores will stock them.
The MAP sensor deciphers how much Vacuum is present within the Intake to calculate airflow..It helps the CPU to calculate Fuel/Air Ratio, along with with other sensors. The MAF sensor came in 89’, many convert SD based Motors to this platform. Not all. Opinion is to get it right as-is, think about that in the background. For a stock application, there’s no real need.
Yes, the “Turbo-Swirl” Heads are not the best, but nonetheless work fine, and still should.
-The TPS’s function lies within its name, deciphering how much the butterfly is open. it’s adjustable, is a variable Resistor, and like an old stereo volume control, creating “Static” when older. The TPS May have “dead” spots very similar. as the wiper contacts & changes resistance values the CPU interprets & uses other sensory data to run properly. Mal-adjustment or faulty MAF symptoms are erratic running conditions, idle, may cause a WOT throttle issue on it’s own, or kick you out of running closed loop. Closed loop is where function is based on sensory data based CPU decisions, open loop runs the Car on the default program the CPU has embedded within.
Quick link regarding the adjustment process:
TPS Voltage Adjustment Video | 86-04 Mustang - LMR.com
Need help installing or adjusting your 86-04 Mustang throttle position sensor? Watch our install video to help you install and properly adjust your Stang's TPS.
lmr.com
Please post what you desire, willing to help out however possible, if needed.
Good luck!
-John
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Pic’s promised I’d post a pic of my 67’ Kitcar. Kellison Astra X-300;-GT, Project, (recognize the Car?). built with 68’ Corvette L-79 327, M-22, 3.73’s, curb weight of 2,100, My 64’ GTO, ran a 63’ SD421- put the 4$&!500-550HP More does it need, ? lol
Pic. of my 64’ GTO, Sorry for the awful clarity, all I have left.
79’ Z-28, Roller 532, M-22, 3.73’s, came with a 70’ Chevrolet LS-6 , stored it, built an aftermarket 4 Bolt Block, 1150 Dominator waiting until the rings are seated. 5 pics per post, I’ll add the extra’s in 1 more.-John
Pic. of my 64’ GTO, Sorry for the awful clarity, all I have left.
79’ Z-28, Roller 532, M-22, 3.73’s, came with a 70’ Chevrolet LS-6 , stored it, built an aftermarket 4 Bolt Block, 1150 Dominator waiting until the rings are seated. 5 pics per post, I’ll add the extra’s in 1 more.-John
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Last few Pics, sorry about clari
P
Some guy in N.Y. Took a 70’ LS6 built for 1/8th mile & tried to street it with 12.25:1 CR, on 93 Octane. Lucky melted Plugs & Valve margins were OK. Ran a 625 Carter AFB to add insult to injury.Had a severe Accelerator pump leak, likely how it didn’t melt a Piston. Bought it & got it running right & checked everything,.want to hear the worst no-no’s about how this was, just ask, lol!
Astra’s interior has the best gauges SW gauges in 1970, going to keep it retro, donor Corvette had original Sidepipes, want sidepipes on this Car, May use the Vette’ VIN # keep the 454 Vette for parts only. If sidepipes were stock, you can legally run them. Just Feels wrong not to restore the Vette, too. Play it by ear...
My 96’, EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL IN MASSACHUSETTS!
All I have left from my 64’ GTO, I know- “Flamejjob on a 64’ GTO?”, try talking a tunnel visioned 17yr old out of that. Kept the OE 389 $ 3Spd Trans., somebody will come knocking for it one of these days, lol.
Interior of the Astra, all SW Gauges of the period, body came in one piece, my Uncle started it in 68’ schedule was too tight, he wrapped it up and put it on a pad. So I’m restoring and building simultaneously.He sold it to me for 3K, what it cost him in Parts. In the 60’s:70’s. All the parts came from 1940’s-1960’s Cars. Would have been super expensive to acquire them now, replica’s just as expensive, have everything I need- resculpted the body a bit, narrowed the 9”
rear, body ready for final sanding after I add flush mount door handles from a donor Corvette I’d picked up, cheap.
Have to finish it so he can drive it, he’s 76, Aunt 77’, All he ever wanted is to take her on a cruise night, I’m going to make that happen. He was building it for her, wanted it to be a 10th Annoversary present.
Talk to you later!
John
Some guy in N.Y. Took a 70’ LS6 built for 1/8th mile & tried to street it with 12.25:1 CR, on 93 Octane. Lucky melted Plugs & Valve margins were OK. Ran a 625 Carter AFB to add insult to injury.Had a severe Accelerator pump leak, likely how it didn’t melt a Piston. Bought it & got it running right & checked everything,.want to hear the worst no-no’s about how this was, just ask, lol!
Astra’s interior has the best gauges SW gauges in 1970, going to keep it retro, donor Corvette had original Sidepipes, want sidepipes on this Car, May use the Vette’ VIN # keep the 454 Vette for parts only. If sidepipes were stock, you can legally run them. Just Feels wrong not to restore the Vette, too. Play it by ear...
My 96’, EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL IN MASSACHUSETTS!
All I have left from my 64’ GTO, I know- “Flamejjob on a 64’ GTO?”, try talking a tunnel visioned 17yr old out of that. Kept the OE 389 $ 3Spd Trans., somebody will come knocking for it one of these days, lol.
Interior of the Astra, all SW Gauges of the period, body came in one piece, my Uncle started it in 68’ schedule was too tight, he wrapped it up and put it on a pad. So I’m restoring and building simultaneously.He sold it to me for 3K, what it cost him in Parts. In the 60’s:70’s. All the parts came from 1940’s-1960’s Cars. Would have been super expensive to acquire them now, replica’s just as expensive, have everything I need- resculpted the body a bit, narrowed the 9”
rear, body ready for final sanding after I add flush mount door handles from a donor Corvette I’d picked up, cheap.
Have to finish it so he can drive it, he’s 76, Aunt 77’, All he ever wanted is to take her on a cruise night, I’m going to make that happen. He was building it for her, wanted it to be a 10th Annoversary present.
Talk to you later!
John
Attachments
Hi,
Ok, so you going to aim for getting the motor running as it should-Meaning Temperature is stable, going to work towards functionality, look at Temp as secondary, that seem ok?
Lastly, you’re not living in CA.? How strict are your emission Laws?
I’d look for signs of physical 02 Sensor damage & excessive normal wear, but seeing as they are 200K old, I, myself would probably replace them & any other sensor that’s worn, or malfunctions. Don’t purchase through a Shop, any parts you bring in will cost you much less, try one of the spots listed in the below paragraph. One example here:
1986 FORD MUSTANG 5.0L 302cid V8 Oxygen (O2) Sensor | RockAuto
RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.www.rockauto.com
Your Temp, even being hard on it, sounds pretty solid to me, based on your findings.Sounds relatively stable. Draw a line on your overflow Tank. Isolate all your Coolant “drips”. My guess is it’s the T’stat Housing, or a Coolant line & dripping. Silicone lines are cheap & are excellent, bent to fit perfectly. I’ll help you get past the WOT issue- ok? Others will generally do the same..
Does the WOT throttle issue occur when the engine is still relatively cool, or only fully warm, is Temp influencing WOT , or not a factor?
Many relocate after removal of the CPU for easier access, if you have a Cat obstruction & need new one’s, they’re easy to find, not too steep, monetarily. Will also outflow your OE Cat’s by a mile & still pass Emissions easily. Are you still running the Smog pump AIR, lines bolted up to the rear of each Head? How much Smog is still functioning? The EGR is usually an issue due to excess Carbon buildup, as it’s not revved high & at WOT, that lines up.
You may order any parts you need through Summit, LMR, American Muscle, etc. You can’t find ANY part, I’ll find it for you-k?
The above also stocks Cat’s & full X or H pipes pipes designed bolt up to OE Manifolds, or Shorty/L.T. headers,. As you’re running Duals & not a Y Pipe, it’ll bolt up. Cost is about 350$ for the “direct Boltup” H or X pipes with 50 State legal, high flow Cat’s.
(Brand:BBK) H pipes give more of a nostalgic exhaust tone, X pipes may give a few more Ponies for your Pony, but slightly more expensive.
Both will sound great, link to example:
.Ford Mustang 5.0L 2-1/2 High Flow Catted H-Pipe 86-93
Free Shipping on Mustang 5.0 2-1/2 In. Catted H-Pipe (86-93). Order Now and Save!
Or you can just buy Cats individually & weld in. I do suggest Stainless for longevity, but H. Carbon Steel will work just fine.
-Check your MAP Sensor & ensure it’s not leaking and functioning properly.
Get a SHOP Manual on your Car, Haynes or Chiltons, most walk-in stores will stock them.
The MAP sensor deciphers how much Vacuum is present within the Intake to calculate airflow..It helps the CPU to calculate Fuel/Air Ratio, along with with other sensors. The MAF sensor came in 89’, many convert SD based Motors to this platform. Not all. Opinion is to get it right as-is, think about that in the background. For a stock application, there’s no real need.
Yes, the “Turbo-Swirl” Heads are not the best, but nonetheless work fine, and still should.
-The TPS’s function lies within its name, deciphering how much the butterfly is open. it’s adjustable, is a variable Resistor, and like an old stereo volume control, creating “Static” when older. The TPS May have “dead” spots very similar. as the wiper contacts & changes resistance values the CPU interprets & uses other sensory data to run properly. Mal-adjustment or faulty MAF symptoms are erratic running conditions, idle, may cause a WOT throttle issue on it’s own, or kick you out of running closed loop. Closed loop is where function is based on sensory data based CPU decisions, open loop runs the Car on the default program the CPU has embedded within.
Quick link regarding the adjustment process:
TPS Voltage Adjustment Video | 86-04 Mustang - LMR.com
Need help installing or adjusting your 86-04 Mustang throttle position sensor? Watch our install video to help you install and properly adjust your Stang's TPS.
Please post what you desire, willing to help out however possible, if needed.
Good luck!
-John
Hi John – I’ve been avoiding the issue-1986 Mustang GT convertible 5 spd. Didn’t like ordering generic O2’s but finally accepted my fate and placed order today. Have looked at BBK cat back systems and read some reviews that product required cutting, bending, etc to fit. Talked to muffler shop and guy said if it was him he would custom build the exhaust without the use of cats which at this time is legal in GA for a 25+ year old car. Of course he will do whatever I request. Yes all of the original emissions equipment is on the car – it may not work anymore but it is still hooked up. (1986-speed density system) If the exhaust return tube which runs from the 2nd set of cats up to the back of the heads were going to be removed this would be the time to do so. Once the exhaust system is flowing again I’m probably not the man for possibly 50% of the troubleshooting that would follow. Started developing “necessary tremors” at age 58 and at 63 they have become a PITA. What are your opinions on how the new section of exhaust system should be constructed.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi Greg, That is correct- many systems require you to cut, mitre, reshape & sometimes more, usually the cat back, not the catted X or H pipes. Many are junk, others reasonably priced & fit well. Running Cats would outflow what most basic mod’s used could throw at them, I see no reason not to run them. Ther-in lies my question..
You want to enjoy it running like it did years back, want to jump in and cruise & not worry about issues. Sound a bit more stout. Maybe some basic mod’s down the road, or not- but not much more, correct? Once I get that answer, I can suggest one solid thought.
Lots of room underneath 86+. 79’-85’ GT’s had a Single ‘Y’. If the Shop’s reasonable, having them bend & weld it up may be a good idea
. A purchased X Pipe will provide some H gains, & save some Fabrication $, 5/8”-11 Plugs in the Heads, few simple steps will rid you of that AIR system portion.
I’m generally for keeping Emissions equipment, most harms HP very little, much less than generally thought.
Most prevalent 86’s issues are the mod limiting SD platform, It’s choking Intake piping, exhaust manifolds and the OE Cats.
You shouldn’t have any drivability issues with this, it’ll likely just help “wake it back up“.
Ok- I’ll look for your thoughts!
Take care!
John
You want to enjoy it running like it did years back, want to jump in and cruise & not worry about issues. Sound a bit more stout. Maybe some basic mod’s down the road, or not- but not much more, correct? Once I get that answer, I can suggest one solid thought.
Lots of room underneath 86+. 79’-85’ GT’s had a Single ‘Y’. If the Shop’s reasonable, having them bend & weld it up may be a good idea
. A purchased X Pipe will provide some H gains, & save some Fabrication $, 5/8”-11 Plugs in the Heads, few simple steps will rid you of that AIR system portion.
I’m generally for keeping Emissions equipment, most harms HP very little, much less than generally thought.
Most prevalent 86’s issues are the mod limiting SD platform, It’s choking Intake piping, exhaust manifolds and the OE Cats.
You shouldn’t have any drivability issues with this, it’ll likely just help “wake it back up“.
Ok- I’ll look for your thoughts!
Take care!
John
Thank you John
The BBK High flow H pipe systems for stock or shorty headers I have seen on the internet are all $449 + tax. The picture shown on CJ Pony Parts is of a fully welded system which I would prefer however all other pictures of the BBK systems show the use of clamps to connect two of the pipes. The picture shown by CJ Pony Parts may be the old style and they have failed to update the picture. The pipes are 2-1/2” and yes my odd Mustang has 2-1/4 od. I also have the factory headers. I’m more interested these days in low end torque which comes with an H pipe and either the stock or shorty headers. Reducing exhaust back up pressure too far means reducing low end performance. Regardless of either custom fabrication or ordering components I will use a muffler shop to do the work. Can you recommend specific products I should purchase or do you have a preferred route if this were your car?
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi Greg,
I do apologize for the delay in response, my wife secretly setup a 4 night trip to Hampton Beach, N.H.for our 10th Anniversary (sneaky), lol!
Words describing the trip, >105 degrees, caught 56 Mackerel in 5 hr’s, Irish=burned, crisp, uplifting, ate an 8.5lb lobster & now I’m as red as he was, I really needed that! lol!
I’m old school in that capacity, go for Stainless, Love Welding it- an inserted pipe & a 360Deg Seam weld is superior to clamping any exhaust, -I give credit to the wide seam clamps used these days, are engineered well & work superbly with an expanded/undersized insertion pipe joint.
Ok to trust them from quality Mfg’s.
If you need to have work done, someday removal of the entire Exhaust takes minutes.
Almost too good to be true.
American Muscle, CJ, LMR, Pitstop, Summit sells the good, bad, the ugly.. Compare online, don’t buy exhaust online. Call them to verify everything so you’re covered.
HOOKER, KOOK’s, BORLA, SLP, PYPES, MAC, FORD RACING, ROUSH, FLOWMASTER, BBK, rarely MAGNAFLOW are all Mfg’s i stick to for various components.
If I were you, being a Shop install, I’d just use the MFG’s for the unequal length H Pipe & Mufflers, Shorty’s- or what you have. Good to mate new to new. have them bend/weld up the rest of the pipes. Very easy.
Yes, agree with your H balanced Pipe views, you’ll get a more Nostalgic Exhaust note in addition to low end, usable Torque.
NOTE: YouTube has 1,000’s of Car’s with sound files of different combo’s people put together, type it right into YouTube 86’ Mustang GT Exhaust Systems sound, make a final choice. Mustangs have their “own” sound, most will do anything to eliminate the OE “Drone” sound.
This may help:
Closest to yours, bone stock. Did a show 1987 5.0 (22,000Mi) Exhaust using BBK Shorty’s to a BBK Catless H Pipe with Flowmaster super 44 Mufflers, 2.5” pipes i’d bent out of 316 S.S.. Very nice, deep tone.
Bent out ends straight & beveled for a Stock look. Buffed end to end for a Clean look.
MAC Mufflers are also great sounding in near stock 5.0 applications.
-Think American Muscle does Price matches.(?)
Not ridiculously loud, nor crackly, more of an old school muscle sound. This might work for you.
If you had the Shop bend up the Pipes, would likely be cheaper, and with the correct- look of the straight, single diameter pipes exiting the rear of the Car (the stock look) beveled on the end, but 2.5”.
-Unless ALL Stainless, you could have them weld the last 3’ of pipe in 304 Stainless. Tell them to use #309 filler Rod, Carbon to Stainless. The nice, clean OE look, will never rust.
They’ll buff to a mirror, or leave as-is, or just grain them straight out with a 3M pad.
The 1987 I did always stuck out, sounded excellent for stock, Customer was very happy, keeping a stock look, stock build.
Tried to be broad in my answer, but that GT I Did sticks outAnything else specific you want to ask, please do!
Best!
-John
I do apologize for the delay in response, my wife secretly setup a 4 night trip to Hampton Beach, N.H.for our 10th Anniversary (sneaky), lol!
Words describing the trip, >105 degrees, caught 56 Mackerel in 5 hr’s, Irish=burned, crisp, uplifting, ate an 8.5lb lobster & now I’m as red as he was, I really needed that! lol!
I’m old school in that capacity, go for Stainless, Love Welding it- an inserted pipe & a 360Deg Seam weld is superior to clamping any exhaust, -I give credit to the wide seam clamps used these days, are engineered well & work superbly with an expanded/undersized insertion pipe joint.
Ok to trust them from quality Mfg’s.
If you need to have work done, someday removal of the entire Exhaust takes minutes.
Almost too good to be true.
American Muscle, CJ, LMR, Pitstop, Summit sells the good, bad, the ugly.. Compare online, don’t buy exhaust online. Call them to verify everything so you’re covered.
HOOKER, KOOK’s, BORLA, SLP, PYPES, MAC, FORD RACING, ROUSH, FLOWMASTER, BBK, rarely MAGNAFLOW are all Mfg’s i stick to for various components.
If I were you, being a Shop install, I’d just use the MFG’s for the unequal length H Pipe & Mufflers, Shorty’s- or what you have. Good to mate new to new. have them bend/weld up the rest of the pipes. Very easy.
Yes, agree with your H balanced Pipe views, you’ll get a more Nostalgic Exhaust note in addition to low end, usable Torque.
NOTE: YouTube has 1,000’s of Car’s with sound files of different combo’s people put together, type it right into YouTube 86’ Mustang GT Exhaust Systems sound, make a final choice. Mustangs have their “own” sound, most will do anything to eliminate the OE “Drone” sound.
This may help:
Closest to yours, bone stock. Did a show 1987 5.0 (22,000Mi) Exhaust using BBK Shorty’s to a BBK Catless H Pipe with Flowmaster super 44 Mufflers, 2.5” pipes i’d bent out of 316 S.S.. Very nice, deep tone.
Bent out ends straight & beveled for a Stock look. Buffed end to end for a Clean look.
MAC Mufflers are also great sounding in near stock 5.0 applications.
-Think American Muscle does Price matches.(?)
Not ridiculously loud, nor crackly, more of an old school muscle sound. This might work for you.
If you had the Shop bend up the Pipes, would likely be cheaper, and with the correct- look of the straight, single diameter pipes exiting the rear of the Car (the stock look) beveled on the end, but 2.5”.
-Unless ALL Stainless, you could have them weld the last 3’ of pipe in 304 Stainless. Tell them to use #309 filler Rod, Carbon to Stainless. The nice, clean OE look, will never rust.
They’ll buff to a mirror, or leave as-is, or just grain them straight out with a 3M pad.
The 1987 I did always stuck out, sounded excellent for stock, Customer was very happy, keeping a stock look, stock build.
Tried to be broad in my answer, but that GT I Did sticks outAnything else specific you want to ask, please do!
Best!
-John
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