1987 vert suspension opinions

[bsk116]

As far as I can tell the suspension is stock with 92,000 miles.
I am getting ready to replace the shocks/struts with some Tokico Hp Series. During my quest for best price, I noticed that Tokico makes a shock/strut/spring kit (HPK211) for not much more money.
Here is where things get dicey. The car came with 245/45R17 4 lug cobra wheels which I like, but the tire/tires rub occasionally (this is tolerable) when the steering wheel is at max left/right turn. I'm concerned if I install the kit (Lowers car approximately 1” to 1 .25”) the tires will rub even more especially when four people are in the car.
Logic tells me that I should replace the springs the same time as the shocks/struts.
Another possible option is to install the Tokico lowering kit, but replace the 245/45R17 with a slightly smaller tire/wheel package (would like to keep the 17" wheel size if possible) to eliminate any potential rub when car is loaded with four people.
Also, what other items should be replaced while the car is on the lift? Bushings? I would like to tighten up the front end as it seems to wander on certain roads, but I think it is due to the wide tires. This is strictly a summer cruiser and ride comfort is first.
What do you think?
Thanks for any help/suggestions.

 

[stang&2Birds]

You have an 87 and a vert. So, be super careful going by what others have done and advice.

Your car is heaver, and will sit lower. Also, the 87 wheel wells are not friendly towards 245/45/17 tires. If you add more camber, get MM CC plates. you can often get more tire clearance.

So...
Yes, lowering the car any will result in more issues with tire rub. That's real life.

In "Interweb life", you can lower the car 5" and put on 335's up front and you'll never have any problems!
Really, really, my car is lower 8" and I have 355's and my car is fine.

Unless your stock springs are broken (they rust to the FCA and break from flexing stress), there is no need to replace your stock 20+ year old springs. The Fox/sn95 style coils springs are good for a very very long time. Likely far longer than the metal in the frame/body will last.

If you want to lower the car, you'll have issues. The vert will be lower than a hatch or notch with the same springs. If you have an automatic, the car will be lower still (more weight)! Also, anytime you lower a Fox, IMHO, CC plates are required, and a bumpsteer kit is highly recommended. The CC plates allow for more/normal camber. The bumpsteer kit "helps" to control bumpsteer (hence it's name ).

First, if you don't have sub-frames on your vert, do that first! Also, get an STB. Again, the Fox platform sucks for rigidity, and the vert super-sucks. Don't even think of going with stiffer or lowered springs without subframes.

If you want a firmer ride, you can do what I did. I went with Mach1 springs and the Steeda spring spacer. Plus, poly isolators. That gets me close to stock height (lowered ~1/4" -> ~1/3"), and a firmer ride. But, again, your car will be lower than mine because of your car's weight.

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/misc/Mustang1986_with_Mach1_springs/

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/tmp/OTC-spring-tool/

Good Luck!

 

[bsk116]

Hey, thanks for your input 2birds. I guess I will replace the 25 year old shocks/struts with some Tokico blues and call it a day. I certainly do not want a firmer ride, however if I can stop the banging noise on the poor streets in town with just shocks/struts I will be happy. On good roads the car rides amazingly well considering the age and miles it has.
Thanks again.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I've been looking into the KYB Gas-A-Just shock and struts. Any input? They're priced right.

 

[bsk116]

I've been looking into the KYB Gas-A-Just shock and struts. Any input? They're priced right.

I assume your asking 2Birds this question.
What I have read on various forums is stay away from KYB, however every person has an opinion. KYB may very well be an excellent product, I have never purchased their product so I can't provide any input.
I think I will go with the non-adjustable Tokico Hp Series as I have read favorable comments on this product. For all I know, the Tokico might be over priced junk, maybe someone with first hand experience will chime in.

 

[foxna6]

If everything is stock you should also replace the ball joints and inner and putter tie rod ends a lot of people overlook these parts but they are very important in the way the car drives

 

[stang&2Birds]

KYB struts/shocks are basically the same as the Monroe-matics. They don't "suck", but they are a "low-end performance" shock/strut. Or, in other terms, more comfort-oriented with consideration given for performance. Still, IMHO, they are an upgrade over stock. So, IMHO, for comfort/mild-handling and stock 4-cyl or GT springs, they are "fine".

KYB makes a fine product. They are not the pure cr*p products that some companies sell. But, at the same time, don't think that you're getting a Koni strut performance for a small fraction of the price. However, a performance Koni strut would be harsher on real-life city street and the bumps and pot-holes. So, it all depends exactly what a person wants for their car.

Still, my preference, before any KYB strut (adj or not) would be a Tok blue. I put those on when I did the M2300K swap - nice struts and shocks!

When I went to a firmer spring (Mach 1 600lbs/in vs 525 lb/in), the Tok blues would have been boarder-line. Still, people have them with 600lbs/in springs and they are happy. Still, to be safe, since I would need an alignment anyways when I did the springs, I went with the Tok White Adj. They aren't a true "ultimate" handling shock. More for the beginner/intermediate-level. But, my car is a daily driver, so they are fine for me. And, they were the best price among the competition (Koni, etc).


BTW, thanks to the "wayback archive", here are the slides that Koni has on the different struts:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040828011028/http://www.koni-na.com/presentations/mustang/

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Yeah, I was looking at the Tokico HP series (IE Tokico Blue's) as an alternative.

My goal is got go with a strut/shock and spring set that 1) lowers the car slightly to imrove the look and 2) maintains the best ride quality possible. Quite frankly, I don't do any really hard corner carving and I'm sure some gain in handling would be a biproduct of the first consideration, so a budget minded set up is more what I'm looking into....but the first two points are most certainly a priority.

I'm also trying to avoid dropping it more than about an 1" to 1.25", as budgeting for caster/camber plates at this time is out of the question and I've got to consider clearance issues with the 17x9 (255/40/17) and 17x10 (275/40/17)' wheels I'm running.

Right now, my car rides so harsh it's not even really fun to drive. I don't know what the previous owner has in there, but it's coming out as soon as I can put something together.

 

[stang&2Birds]

Stock GT front fender height, with the correct tire diameter (tire and rim), is ~27.25" +/- ~0.2".

You can lower a stock GT spring by ~1/4" or ~1/2". IMHO, I wouldn't go any lower with the stock spring rate.
http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/926953-cutting-stock-1993-5-0-springs.html

Summary: Cut ~60 degrees, or ~15% of a coil to get an ~~1/2" drop.


IMHO, to lower the car, get the Mach1 springs (600lbs/in vs the GT 425/530 lbs/in springs). The Mach1 springs lower a car by ~1/2". But, if you keep your compressed isolators, the drop may be more like ~0.6 -> ~0.7". But, the Mach1 springs definitely give a harsher ride. With new Tok Blues, you should be okay. I keep my Tok adj on the middle setting.

Note, automatics are a little lower for a given spring, and verts get lowered more. A hatch gets lowered less.

After you replace the springs, it takes a days/miles for the isolators to compress and settle. Contrary to interweb lore, the springs do not "settle".

If you go with new rubber isolators, then the suspension height settling will vary. It depends on the exact isolators, how much the car is driven etc. Consider that it takes many years for the stock Ford OEM isolators until they fully compress.


To get the exact height for the front fender, it can take a number of spring installs/modify/test cycles.
*I* don't like coil overs for the street since the strut towers were not designed to handle anywhere near the forces that coil-overs put on them.

Whatever anyone does, they should never heat the coil to adjust the ride height. That will effect the temper/strength/internal-molecular-alignment, and can/will effect how long the coil lasts. The coil will be weaken and will likely effect the coil pitch/spacing over time.


For the rear, get the MM adj rear lower control arms, and have a blast setting the height that you want.

Good Luck!

 

[bsk116]

If everything is stock you should also replace the ball joints and inner and putter tie rod ends a lot of people overlook these parts but they are very important in the way the car drives

Duly noted. I should probably have my mechanic put it up on his lift and take inventory of what needs replacement. It passed inspection last year with no problem but my mind keeps telling me that everything is 25 years old

 

[Sharad]

As far as I can tell the suspension is stock with 92,000 miles.
I am getting ready to replace the shocks/struts with some Tokico Hp Series. During my quest for best price, I noticed that Tokico makes a shock/strut/spring kit (HPK211) for not much more money.
Here is where things get dicey. The car came with 245/45R17 4 lug cobra wheels which I like, but the tire/tires rub occasionally (this is tolerable) when the steering wheel is at max left/right turn. I'm concerned if I install the kit (Lowers car approximately 1” to 1 .25”) the tires will rub even more especially when four people are in the car.
Logic tells me that I should replace the springs the same time as the shocks/struts.
Another possible option is to install the Tokico lowering kit, but replace the 245/45R17 with a slightly smaller tire/wheel package (would like to keep the 17" wheel size if possible) to eliminate any potential rub when car is loaded with four people.
Also, what other items should be replaced while the car is on the lift? Bushings? I would like to tighten up the front end as it seems to wander on certain roads, but I think it is due to the wide tires. This is strictly a summer cruiser and ride comfort is first.
What do you think?
Thanks for any help/suggestions.

In order to give you more specific advice, we'd need to know the size and offset of your 17" cobra wheels. But the short answer is that you can lower a Fox on 17s pretty easily. I'm not familiar with the HPK211, but if it doesn't lower the car more than 1.25", you'll be fine as long as the wheel sizing is right.

Regarding the wandering, this could be worn balljoints, strut mounts, tie rods, rag joint in the steering shaft, and even tramlining from the wide tires. A good suspension inspection performed by a qualified mechanic would go a long way toward diagnosing the problem. But as you alluded to in another post, It's pretty typical for a 25 year old car to need some restoration. That's the fun part though, you can upgrade those parts as you go. Foxes can handle pretty well, and with a decent ride quality, if they are done correctly. There's certainly no shortage of manufacturers offering quality suspension upgrades.

 

[aar0s]

88' with Steeda sports with energy suspension isolators and 16 inch pony 225/55/16's kyb's in the front and worn out stockers in the back a few other things but they dont deal with ride hight. It would rub at full lock a little but not too bad. never had more than me and my wife in the car so i cant tell ya how it did with four in the car. I dont think the ride was harsh but im a little forgiving in the harsh/fun department. Just thought id give ya a visual seeing how our cars are twins.

 

[bsk116]

I appreciate everybody taking the time to educate me on the various options etc..
Sharad, now you are telling me what I want to hear I don't know what the offset of my Cobra R wheel is but I did take an unscientific measurement with a tape and the wheel appears to measure 10" wide overall. How do I determine offset? Remember, all I have done since purchasing the car is add cat back Borla and a timing advance.
I've got it in my head to buy the Tokico kit (for $437 versus $340 for just the shocks/struts) which lowers the car approximately 1" to 1.25" according to Tokico. No offense to 2birds, but my mind tells me fresh shocks/struts AND springs would be better than just shocks/struts.
I'm not opposed to replacing the wheels to make this happen (one has some nasty chrome bubbling going on anyway) if I can keep the same 17" diameter wheel (with different offset?) and 245/45R17 tires with the lowering kit.
My Gt is the same as yours regarding rub, at full lock only, it is tolerable.
Sorry my pic didn't come out as good as yours but you get the idea. I tried to upload two more pics but it says the "files are too large".

 

[aar0s]

Thats one fine looking vert ya got there

 

[bsk116]

Thats one fine looking vert ya got there

Thank You! It's kind of you to say.
I was very lucky to find a rot free fox body in the northeast. Had to travel 350 miles to get it but worth it IMO. This car is 100% original including the paint and interior!