2005 Mustang....good for Chevrolet?

Z28x · Jan 11, 2004

SVTdriver said:
huh? So if you want a more agressive 05 wait for 07?

The '05 will have a Ram Air hood, quad exhust, and more HP. Same body as the '04 just with a more Muscle car/less BMW look.

THe '07 will be a complete redesign on GMs new RWD car platform

Ron Jeremy · Jan 11, 2004

I will wait until 2007 for the agressive GTO. I am also hoping that by 2007 GM will re-introduce the Camaro and Firebird. And I am also hoping that Dodge will re-introduce the Charger. Then we will have a lot to choose from. I just hope that the designs for these cars are not rounded looking like the current ugly GTO.

SVTdriver · Jan 11, 2004

Z28x said:
The '05 will have a Ram Air hood, quad exhust, and more HP. Same body as the '04 just with a more Muscle car/less BMW look.

THe '07 will be a complete redesign on GMs new RWD car platform

Are they going to change the front end? So that it doesn't look like every other pontiac. I saw pics of the pontiac area from NAIAS. And I didn't know which one was the GTO.

fly2low · Jan 12, 2004

Okay, so someone is actually gonna buy a car just for the look . Design first and mechanical follows?
I am not a big fan of the Subbie, but one thing I know for sure for the Evo: the design follows function. The fender flares are needed to provide a bigger track. The hood vent is functional to release hot air. The big air dam is used to add down force, cool the brakes and intercooler. The wing really adds downforce.

I am not saying anything bad about the new Stang. I am just crossing my fingers that they gonna perform as well as they look. Otherwise, there could be a whole new generation of "ricers": people who buy the car based on the look and don't really care about performance (the very definition of "rice cars").

I mean, I open the road test summary of Road & Track now and I am upset on how these 2 rally cars can have a comparable performance to the current SVT Cobra. The 0-60mph and 1/4 mile time of the Subbie is the same with the Cobra, while the Evo is only a tenth behind. These two cars beat the Cobra on the other categories like braking, slalom, mpg (and insurance). How could cars with about a half of displacement can do as well as the Cobra? However, the most bitter part is that the Cobra cost MORE. Isn't Mustang supposed to be an affordable performance car? If you bring down the price a bit, you'd get a Mach 1. However, the Mach is not even a comparisson to these 2 cars. Well, my point is, not that I am bragging how these 2 cars do better, but Ford needs to re-engineer the car better to fight its competitors.

I want them to get the Mustang right; the bang for the buck performance car; not just a straight line car.

That's why I am so upset about the lack of independent rear suspension .

SVTdriver · Jan 12, 2004

I realize it may be hard to believe. But yes people do buy cars for the looks. Now I'm sure that yes a lot of the evo's features are functional. But you do realize these are knock-offs of rally car designs. And the functional items have less functionality on the street than they do on a race track.

Again though how can you be disappointed in something nobdy has tested yet. What if the newly redesign suspension is better than IRS? I'm not saying it will be. But your jumping the gun a little.

fly2low · Jan 12, 2004

SVTdriver said:
Again though how can you be disappointed in something nobdy has tested yet. What if the newly redesign suspension is better than IRS? I'm not saying it will be. But your jumping the gun a little.

I do hope you are right, brother. Let's just wait.

SVTdriver · Jan 12, 2004

I hope I am as well. And I would also argue against the IRS just on the basis of you post. Stating that the WRX beat the cobra in slalom. Would seem to me to say that the IRS was nearly pointless and added more weight than performance. Which as we all know. The mustang could use less of.

fly2low · Jan 12, 2004

Let's hope everyone is doing their proper job: Mustang engineers doing the setup "right", Ford financial/sales people keep bitchin' about keeping the price down, and WE keep bitchin' about getting the car the best with the cheapest price .

BigBlockStang · Jan 13, 2004

fly2low said:
Okay, so someone is actually gonna buy a car just for the look . Design first and mechanical follows?
I am not a big fan of the Subbie, but one thing I know for sure for the Evo: the design follows function. The fender flares are needed to provide a bigger track. The hood vent is functional to release hot air. The big air dam is used to add down force, cool the brakes and intercooler. The wing really adds downforce.

I am not saying anything bad about the new Stang. I am just crossing my fingers that they gonna perform as well as they look. Otherwise, there could be a whole new generation of "ricers": people who buy the car based on the look and don't really care about performance (the very definition of "rice cars").

I mean, I open the road test summary of Road & Track now and I am upset on how these 2 rally cars can have a comparable performance to the current SVT Cobra. The 0-60mph and 1/4 mile time of the Subbie is the same with the Cobra, while the Evo is only a tenth behind. These two cars beat the Cobra on the other categories like braking, slalom, mpg (and insurance). How could cars with about a half of displacement can do as well as the Cobra? However, the most bitter part is that the Cobra cost MORE. Isn't Mustang supposed to be an affordable performance car? If you bring down the price a bit, you'd get a Mach 1. However, the Mach is not even a comparisson to these 2 cars. Well, my point is, not that I am bragging how these 2 cars do better, but Ford needs to re-engineer the car better to fight its competitors.

I want them to get the Mustang right; the bang for the buck performance car; not just a straight line car.

That's why I am so upset about the lack of independent rear suspension .

First off Road and Track drivers suck. And its alot easier to launch a 4 wheel drive car. From a standing start. A Mustang Cobra is a mid twelve second car. The other cars you mentioned are mid to low thirteens. Its just the driver doesn't have to have a brain to launch a car with AWD. The Mach 1 is a low thirteen second car (with 75hp less than a cobra).

As far as the rear suspension goes. This new suspension is right out of a Trans Am racer. It should be worlds better than the old suspension. Be lower cost,lighter wait and have more grip than even the IRS suspension. The IRS suspension should be better only on extremely bumpy surfaces. So all I can say really is don't knock it till you try it. And stop reading that import lover trash R&T.

30AnnivStang · Jan 13, 2004

RON JEREMY, you need to lay off that gen x, gen y crap theory. how old you you think a majority of the people are on this forum? I'd be willing to bet that a large portion are in their 20's and thirties (gen x and y) this is the second time you've mentioned it and it's off base.

and fly2low, the cars you are comparing to the mustang are in another class (weight and intent) NO ONE in there right mind would buy a car as ugly as these 2. Who actually likes that fast-n-furious crap.

back to the topic at hand. While a new Camaro is on the drawing board already. The new mustang will certainly help enthusiasts get thier precious 'Maro. especially if the 'stang does well, just like the 60's. The Pony Car wars are on again baby!! I can't wait to have a garage with an '05 Mustang and an '07 Camaro.

CatmanJJ · Jan 13, 2004

If GM wants to be competitive I think they need to offer an equal amount options as the GT for equal or lesser price. Seems in the end of the F-body they priced themselves out of the market as Ford sold many more V6 models then GM. The GTO is sweet but for thousands more then the 05 GT, I don't see it being a major player. It's more of a niche vehicle at this point.

Personally, I'd like to see the big 3 face off again, GM with GTO, Z28, Chevelle (on GTO platform) - Dodge with Charger, Challenger, and/or Hemi-cude - Ford well just keep making a kick ass Mustang.

63_Fairlane · Jan 13, 2004

Well there was a chance that the Mustang would have ended up being a Turbo allwheel drive car. Take the SVO and crossbread it with a Probe and an Escape and Viola! you get a turbo-allwheel-drive-fourbanger Mustang....

Makes you wonder sometimes...

JimF65 · Jan 13, 2004

63_Fairlane said:
Well there was a chance that the Mustang would have ended up being a Turbo allwheel drive car. Take the SVO and crossbread it with a Probe and an Escape and Viola! you get a turbo-allwheel-drive-fourbanger Mustang....

Makes you wonder sometimes...

Remember? The Probe was originally going to be a front-drive putt-putt "next edition" Mustang. Until we Mustangers shouted long and loud that we wanted to keep performance in the Mustang!! So Ford put the "Probe" name on the Mazda that was originally slated to be a Mustang. And we all see what happened to the Probe........

fly2low · Jan 13, 2004

Competition is the very heart of America. Without free enterprise, this country will not be in this condition right now. The winner takes it all. Camaro/Trans Am died, Mustang lives. The 60's cars are good; I love them. However, modern cars perform better than them (accelates, brakes, corners, better ergonomics, better emissions, etc).
Sure some of us are hardcore Mustang fans. However, we must also realize that the competition continues. In making Mustang, Ford doesn't compete with GM anymore. In reality, there are other auto makers that offer performer cars for Mustang's price range. I just took Evo and STi as an example. Omitting personal sentiments, these competitions, give buyers purchase options.

Be honest, are you or all of your household only use American brands. Are all of your electronics RCAs? Would you buy a better electronic foreign made product for a better price? Wouldn't you be happy if the domestic makers will then be able to offer a better and cheaper products to fight these competitions? Regardless, the customers win.

The same thing will happen with Mustang. The market will tell by the sales number. Ford must improves Mustang to be better and cheaper in order to make Mustang survives in the future. Isn't the very heart of Mustang an affordable performance i.e. bang for the bucks?

Now, let me take the Evo as an example again. This car undercuts the Cobra by about $6k. Yet, it performs better in some categories tested and even finished a bit better in the final summary (see my attachment). For the sake of simplicity, let's forget the modification capabilities since both cars have tons of potentials. Please also let styling to be a subjective matter (this is a Mustang board. Of course, everyone loves Mustang). This is a real competition.

Don't despise the competitors. If people buy them, let them do that. Ford will then be forced to improve the Mustang further. At the end of the day, you'll get a better and cheaper Mustang.

PS: And for a personal note, I don't only read crappy magazines. I have the February issue of Hemming Muscle Machines right next to me now. Know yourself and know your competitions.

BTW, I don't mean to insult anyone with this crappy Strategic Management 101 materials. I just want to elaborate my points . Peace .

http://www.motortrend.com/features/scenes/112_0306_spdint/

tylers65 · Jan 13, 2004

fly2low said:
Competition is the very heart of America. Without free enterprise, this country will not be in this condition right now. The winner takes it all. Camaro/Trans Am died, Mustang lives. The 60's cars are good; I love them. However, modern cars perform better than them (accelates, brakes, corners, better ergonomics, better emissions, etc).
Sure some of us are hardcore Mustang fans. However, we must also realize that the competition continues. In making Mustang, Ford doesn't compete with GM anymore. In reality, there are other auto makers that offer performer cars for Mustang's price range. I just took Evo and STi as an example. Omitting personal sentiments, these competitions, give buyers purchase options.

Be honest, are you or all of your household only use American brands. Are all of your electronics RCAs? Would you buy a better electronic foreign made product for a better price? Wouldn't you be happy if the domestic makers will then be able to offer a better and cheaper products to fight these competitions? Regardless, the customers win.

The same thing will happen with Mustang. The market will tell by the sales number. Ford must improves Mustang to be better and cheaper in order to make Mustang survives in the future. Isn't the very heart of Mustang an affordable performance i.e. bang for the bucks?

Now, let me take the Evo as an example again. This car undercuts the Cobra by about $6k. Yet, it performs better in some categories tested and even finished a bit better in the final summary (see my attachment). For the sake of simplicity, let's forget the modification capabilities since both cars have tons of potentials. Please also let styling to be a subjective matter (this is a Mustang board. Of course, everyone loves Mustang). This is a real competition.

Don't despise the competitors. If people buy them, let them do that. Ford will then be forced to improve the Mustang further. At the end of the day, you'll get a better and cheaper Mustang.

PS: And for a personal note, I don't only read crappy magazines. I have the February issue of Hemming Muscle Machines right next to me now. Know yourself and know your competitions.

BTW, I don't mean to insult anyone by this crappy Strategic Management 101 materials. I just want to elaborate my points . Peace .

http://www.motortrend.com/features/scenes/112_0306_spdint/

Well said!

Competition breeds a need to become better than the sum of ones parts. Without competition, there is no need for improvement.

63_Fairlane · Jan 13, 2004

JimF65 said:
Remember? The Probe was originally going to be a front-drive putt-putt "next edition" Mustang. Until we Mustangers shouted long and loud that we wanted to keep performance in the Mustang!! So Ford put the "Probe" name on the Mazda that was originally slated to be a Mustang. And we all see what happened to the Probe........

Hey Jim,

This is just speculation. I wonder if Ford and Mazda actually swapped the body work on the two cars after Ford decided to keep the rear wheel drive Mustang. The MX6 or whatever it was called looks a lot ike and SN94 Stang. It even had little indentations in the quarter panels where the side scoup should be and three bar tail lights.

The Probe wasn't a bad car, but it wasn't good enough to survive the backlash by the Mustang faithful. It definately was not a Mustang!!! Then again, the new Cougar was essentially the same car and it failed miserably as well.

63_Fairlane · Jan 13, 2004

I have to agree competition is good. The Evo and the STi, like the old Eclipses, RX7s, and 300Zs are serious competition. The Mustang offers better styling to my eye, but that is a subjective argument. I know plenty of folks who go either way, so it is a toss up.

I guess it depends on what you are looking for in a car. Do you want the ultimate turbo four cylinder or a supercharged V8? Do you prefer the security of all wheel drive or the challenge of rear wheel drive? Do you prefer low end torque or a screaming top end? Etc...

It comes down to personal preference and what suites best on a daily basis.

fly2low · Jan 13, 2004

I do want to see a faster, harder Mustang. I really think that they do the styling right. Now I want to see a performer car. I still keep one slot open for the next gen Stang. If they do things right, I am going to get an '06 model in a V8 variant (I prefer to skip the first year) in blue with with strips. If they make the IRS available only for the Cobra, I guess I have to go with the Cobra.

However, I do want to keep my Evo. IMO, nobody can make a better performer 4dr at this price (I personally dislike the styling of STi). I can always drive with while carrying

(4) passengers.

JimF65 · Jan 13, 2004

63_Fairlane said:
Hey Jim,

This is just speculation. I wonder if Ford and Mazda actually swapped the body work on the two cars after Ford decided to keep the rear wheel drive Mustang. The MX6 or whatever it was called looks a lot ike and SN94 Stang. It even had little indentations in the quarter panels where the side scoup should be and three bar tail lights.

The Probe wasn't a bad car, but it wasn't good enough to survive the backlash by the Mustang faithful. It definately was not a Mustang!!! Then again, the new Cougar was essentially the same car and it failed miserably as well.

What do you mean "swapped the body work"? The Probe was a Mazda, just with a few sheet metal differences. Yes, not a bad car, but definitely not a worthy successor to the Mustang name. True, we don't have the authorative documentation from Ford, but it's pretty clear, and many mags speculated the above with nary a denial from Ford when it was happening.

As for the Cougar: poor styling, too close a copy of Asian cars, not a worthy successor to that name, in my humble opinion. You don't get ahead by imitating.

Yup, they do listen to consumers..... sometimes. :o)

Brokecobra · Jan 13, 2004

Good for chevy? No

The new mustangs (assumed) build quality, interior, power, and suspension are not good for chevy.

If you are asking will the Camero make a comeback then the answer is yes. Chevy needs to find a way to make the f body more profitable, and that will probably mean platform sharing so that it doesnt cost chevy so much to make the camero's. The firechicken and transam are probably dead for the near future with the GTO in the lineup.

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