2005 Mustang or Subaru WRX STi

SVTdriver said:

I thought the new rotary was the renesis, not nemesis. Am I wrong?

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You're correct. He just got the name wrong.

SVT,

It is renesis. As for the RX8 being slow, when you switch to a car with little low end torque, it takes some time to adjust your driving habits.

As for VW/Audi, I just sold my fiance's 94 Jetta, and I have never been happier to see a car go. For all of the Germans' supposed technical prowness, every one of their cars with which I have personally dealt have had electrical gremlins. The AC switches literally burned out. They would burn your hand when you touched them to turn on the AC or heat. If you look at the various VW forums, they have entire pages dealing with electrical faults, poor grounding, etc,
They do have some of the best paint though. I washed/waxed the Jetta a few days ago and the paint is still solid.

The little turbo fours seem to come and go every few years. The old Eclipse/talon's ran a similar setup to the "new Lancer EVO". New package with four doors, basically the same drivetrain. Ok, the Evo experts probably know all of the little differences, but they seem to be very similar drivetrain wise. If trends follow what they have in the past, these cars will be available on a back lot, fly by night used car dealership within three to five years for next to nothing. If I were interesting in modding one of those cars, I would wait a year or two and pick one up used. JMHO

Ok I thought the renesis was a completely new engine not a 13b. At least I thought that is what I had read. I don't keep up on rotary motors so as far as I know it might still be the same motor from WWII.

SVTdriver said:

Ok I thought the renesis was a completely new engine not a 13b. At least I thought that is what I had read. I don't keep up on rotary motors so as far as I know it might still be the same motor from WWII.

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The Renesis is a new engine. The old rotaries couldn't meet emissions regs. It produces almost as much power has the old turbo rotaries in N/A form. There are rumors of a supercharged version in the near future however.

My bad, brainfart! Renesis is it. It's an all new design, but my point was its still just a 1.3L Rotory, like the 13B. I believe its a twin rotor. What I was tryin to express is that, rotaries are known for their free revving nature and high power output relative to their size. For him to say the Renesis has no potential is ignorant.

63_Fairlane said:

SVT,

The little turbo fours seem to come and go every few years. The old Eclipse/talon's ran a similar setup to the "new Lancer EVO". New package with four doors, basically the same drivetrain. Ok, the Evo experts probably know all of the little differences, but they seem to be very similar drivetrain wise. If trends follow what they have in the past, these cars will be available on a back lot, fly by night used car dealership within three to five years for next to nothing. If I were interesting in modding one of those cars, I would wait a year or two and pick one up used. JMHO

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Hmm.. History seems to disagree with you a little bit. The Evo isn't really anything new, they've been around Japan for years. Being Japanese myself with many friends in Japan, the Evo 7 are about 4 years old and they have VERY good resale value in japan. The Evo series has been out for close to a decade. My friend has an Evo 6 with over 90,000 miles on it and it still runs beautifully. To make that kind of statement without any figures to back it up shows just a bit of ignorance. Wait a year or two? The Evo's been out close to two years and you CANNOT get one for under 25k. Try if you want as even USED dealers have them with a bit of markup. I know this is a ford forum, but as someone that loves cars in general whether foreign or domestic, I think its ignorant to show complete disrespect for a car that many regard as the best overall performance vehicle for under 45k

350Z/G35- At 287hp, in a small 2 seater, its an embarassment that this car is barely a low 14 second car. Most times I've seen are in the mid 14's anyway. There is a guy around the way that has the Greddy Twin Turbo kit for it, but it's still not that fast. A stock turbo SRT-4 was neck and neck with him. The TT 350z isn't tuned but neither is the SRT-4. The nissan is a nice car with a good aftermarket, good looks, and decent athletics around a track, but it underachieves in my book. I blame it on these damn Turbo 4's! They are forcing everyone to pack some serious HP.



Completely Agree, test drove a 350Z yesterday....very disapointed. If you value performance over interior, I wouldn't even consider a Z. To buy a decent package comes out to like 36k. For 36k or close to 40 for a G35 coupe, you'd think you'd get some nice straightline speed. 36-40 k for a car that does 0-60 in mid to high fives? What a damn rippoff.

While I agree with some of your points. The resale market in this country MAY be different (Not saying it will be).

SVTdriver said:

While I agree with some of your points. The resale market in this country MAY be different (Not saying it will be).

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I agree, theres no real way to predict resale value in the US 3 or 4 years, but to assume that they'll be worth practically nothing in that time is really wishful thinking.

they also are different specs and have to be discarded every three years.

if you guys are so concerned about the snow, buy a Jeep. (I did) the stang is my summer cruiser

If you are inclined towards the handling of a car then don't just go by live or IRS rear. A live axle rear can be made to pull off better skidpad ratings than a IRS and the best IRS setup is the one where the camber of the wheel during it's up and down movement does not alter.

Due to it's nature a live axle will always have a camber change but if you have wide tyre in the rear then the change in camber is negated. For instance the BMW Zed3 or the E30 (both IRS) had semi-trailing configuration and this lead to change in camber in tight curves resulting in a nervous rear.

This has been changed for the Zed4 which gets a revised multi-link inherited from the 3-series (typically the best IRS would be a 5-link setup, whereas a double wishbone setup like the Porshce is also acceptable but increases the rollcenter). Typically a lower rollcenter in the rear & higher in the front with more flex in the rear than the front on a rwd car is preferable, so that the rear with the drive wheels have good mechanical grip and such a setup has a natural moderate understeer. A moderate amount of body lean in tight corners in the rear causes the rear to grip much better.

On the other hand rear heavy rwd cars like the Porsche Carrera which have higher rollcenter & are also stiffer in the rear although decreases body roll, but tend to oversteer.

The third-gen Camaro for instance had a track bar centrally locating the rear and it was able to pull out .87 g's out of the box and with some modifications around 0.90. My Zed4 pulls out 0.92 g's out of the box and expect the new mustang to be somewhere in the neighbourhood of 0.88-0.89 g's but skidpad rating (roadholding index)and handling are quite different.

A live axle will always have the tendency to road hop so expect it to be less comfy but if you want to have fun in making a good car handle better a live axle can be pretty entertaining. imho the difference between IRS and a live axle on a good handling car is that the former can make a bad driver look good, whereas the latter needs a good driver to make good use of it.

Is there a difference between a Live axle and a solid rear axle?

wrx-no-mo said:

Currently I have a 2004 WRX wagon. Modified fairly conservatively to the point where it can run mid 13's in the quarter.

But I want more!

I've narrowed the choice down to the WRX STi and the new stang. I don't really plan on taking the new car to the track--I just want a beast of a daily driver.

The main pros I see for the STi are: all-wheel drive, spectacular handling. The cons are: turbo lag (barely there, but...) and the rice look. (the megaspoiler has grown on me a little, but I'm still not sure--and I hate the look without a spoiler and don't like the stock sedan spoiler)

The pros for the mustang: low end torque. better mod potential while maintaining good daily driveability, and I LOVE THE NEW STYLE!!

The cons (help me out here): handling--specifically, in the twisties and in the rain/snow.

Any thoughts? Do you think the 05's will handle any better than the previous years?

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Here are my thoughts-
I haven't driven an STi yet, but I hear it's a great car. Far better than the Evo. The STi has boy-racer styling, which to me isn't all that great. Styling is a personal thing though. It kinda depends on who you want to impress.

Power is going to similar in both cars (the only reason you see low 1/4s on the stis is because they lauch them at the expense of transmissions and clutches). Subaru has a decent quality reputation, but the WRX's tranny's need some work. The Mustang's no-gimics approach is going to make it a far more durable car though.

The handling isn't going to be as good as the STi's, but the mustang isn't that bad. The mustang's handling being bad is mostly over-hyped by people who just look at the specs (live axle/strut). Also, a lot of the Sti's grip comes from super-sticky tires (140 treadwear I believe). Having auto-x and open tracked my stock-ish 2000 GT, I've never been beat by a (non-sti) WRX. As for the snow AWD far better than RWD. Traction control makes life livable.

ok I sat in one yesterday the evo or the sti don't compare GET THE MUSTANG. (and i have sat in both btw)

As for handling, stock the mustang might not be able to hang with the all wheel drive STI, But, look what SVT was able to do with the '00 Cobra R. That was a far outdated suspension and they were able to pull out 1G. With simple mods you can use the thousands of dollars you saved by buying a mustang to make it out handle an STI.

The mustang hands down. The styling alone would make the decision for me. So what if the STI can corner like a go cart, the stang just looks better.

I was astonished when I read some negative comments about the new Mustang.It appeared that some of You guys aren't in love with the newest model.I am not against Subaru (it is the only one Japan car brand I actually like) I admire the performance,handling and AWD of the STI,but most of You have totally forgotten about style which Subaru lacks.Of course it is not a ricer but a brick with a wing I would say
I must also mention the fact that The Subaru Impreza is very cheap in the U.S(may the cheapest in the world)
I am sure that if it cost as much as in my country (around 55 thousand $)You would change your mind.

Pretty good thread so far....though some of the narrow minded responses have me cracking up

Anyway, nobody has posed these questions yet:

1) where do you live and what kind of driving conditions will you encounter?

2) does having 2 vs 4 doors matter for what you are doing?

I ask this stuff because I own a Mustang GT (1996) and a Subaru WRX (2002). The Stang is my toy while the Rex is my daily driver. Living in Michigan, I needed something that can handle deep, unplowed roads in the winter and I wanted a 4-door since I have kids getting in and out on a daily basis. As far as all of the Cobra vs STi vs GT vs Evo vs ??? crap, who cares? Run what ya brung, I say. I have played quite a bit with my WRX on the street and must say that a stock GT 4.6 (no matter what year) has been a pretty simple kill with my stock Subi. I have ran from both a dig and from a roll quite a few times, and I usually can get a car length or two before having to pull out of it. About the most even Stang I have run was a buddy's '03 GT with a 5-speed, x-pipe, catback, CAI and 3.73 gears. Those mods put him pretty even with my stock Rex. But last weekend I modded my Rex to a Cobb Stage 2, so it should be interesting to see what she'll do now.

To answer the original question, it is a tough call. Both the '05 and the STi are SWEET if you ask me. I don't think you could go wrong with either one. For my driving situation though, I would still lean towards the STi.

Listen, this is coming from an import guy. A stock 03 GT, from a roll would murder a stock WRX. From a dig it would be a little different if the race were short. The WRX falls on its ass in the higher speeds. The 03 GT with the mods that you speak of should be able to keep up with a stock STi from a roll. So either these guys can't drive or most of your races are from a dig and the race isn't long enough for them to catch up. Sorry man but the stock WRX is no match from a roll for a car that can match it's times without the advantage of a 4wd launch. Now if you're talking pre "PI" 4.6 than thats a different story, but unless the WRX has some mods its not taking an 03(especially modded).