3:73 vs 4:10

joelliott said:
Whats a good rpm to run HW speeds at? You above say your pushin 2300 at 70mph. I would have that thatd be kinda high. I run about 1850 at 70-75 with my stock 3.08 rear. I wanna go 3.73 being I have a 85gt with T5. I am thinking itll put me about 2300 too at 70-75. Is this ok on a pretty much stock 5.0.?
Joe E.


I think mine was somewhere around 2300rpm...maybe a tad more... :shrug:

I hate the fact (especially with 410's) how you can be cruising at 80 on the interstate and your running 3k rpm :nonono:

The gears are fine for a 5.0...but I just don't like the extra wear it causes on the engine...it's hard to cruise at any speeds higher than interstate speeds...
 
I have the aod, not sure of the t5 gearing you may be a little higher, someone here with one would know....but 2300 is not really high at all...mine i basicly stock with 160k and it's real smooth....engine isn't straining at all and I do alot of highway driving...it's so much better than my 2:73's where I was at like 1200....haven't even noticed any MAJOR fuel consumtion.....as I said before I wasn't too sure which gears would do what for me so I brouht to this place called Mustang Madness...he suggested 3:73 in the 5 speed and 4:10's on aod, then I told him I did highway like 4x's a week and he said 3:73's would give me more power but keep it highway friendly...so it's really their advice?
 
5spd GT said:
Yours isn't a daily driver...

There are a couple guys on here like willys1 that actually lost time on their bolt-on stang when they went from 373's to 410's...it is to much for the stock breathing motor...and the way the autos drive ratios are...

410's will hurt gas mileage more and more wear on the engine (a higher constant rpm)...

I do agree...stick with the Ford gears...

Go with 373's...with YOUR car...

He cant drive then :) CleanLX over on corral gained about 2mph over 373's on his practically stock car. Exhaust, gears and a mass air meter were his mods. Car runs high 12's @ 104ish. NO lower than 410 on an aod it will not hurt mileage. Friend has them in his stock 87 aod gt so trust me. Like michael said, it isnt a huge rpm increase, maybe 200-300 and they'll help with speeding tickets on the hwy because you wont be cruising too fast :p Think about it like this, with 273's you have to get on it harder to move it and with more gear you wont have to, so 'in theory' your using less gas to accelerate the car :D 410's for your aod car, RsStanG1987. My friend with a h/c/i 306 94gt just did 410's over his 373 and as soon as he got them he kept telling me how much I need them lol. My rear end hums so I need to have that fixed so im pretty sure i'll be doing 410's.
 
It's easy to figure out what your rpms will be -- (3.73/3.08) X 1850 = your rpm with the 3.73 gears.

RPM's kill an engine? Well, I'd agree if you're talking about running along consistently at 5 or 6 grand. But the difference between 1800 and 2500 rpm is absolutely nothing to worry about - other than consuming a bit more fuel. People seem to forget that the vast majority of smaller engined cars out there (most are 4 cylinders) are geared higher because they have less torque to work with. My wife's BMW cruises right along between 3400 and 3800 rpm between 70 and 80 mph - knocks down 39mph and has 70K on it --- still drives like new. And it has the same 6250 rpm redline that the 5.0L has built into the computer.

You will definitely take a highway gas mileage hit moving from 3.08's to 3.73's or 4.10's. I'll guess it's gonna be on the order of a 10-12% reduction in fuel mileage. On the other hand, your in town mileage may slightly increase because it will take less throttle to get the car moving.
 
Higher rpms does put more wear on your engine overtime...they are working faster than they were from the factory...

410's will hurt gas mileage in an AOD (on highway)...it is simple...if you are comparing stock cruising rpm to 410 cruising rpm...more rpms means more fuel and air...I personally don't like the "loaded" sound of a car cruising at 2500rpm for extended periods of time...it wasn't that way from the factory for a reason...
 
I agree with Michael. I dont, however, think that 410's on the highway are gonna 'kill' mileage. Possibly could see 1 maybe 2 mpg less but i'd say the fun factor of going from a 273 to a 410 more than makes up for that slight loss. I'll have to ask my friend what kinda mileage he gets in his near stock AOD 87 GT with his 410's. I'll ask my other friend with the h/c/i 306 if his mileage got worse going from 373 to 410. Both drive their cars everyday.

Tothe original poster, you WILL be dissappointed with 373's in an aod car. I suggest you make a post titled soemthing like 'stock/near stock aod guys, what gear you running/what gear you suggest'. garantee at least 75% say 410 ;)
 
Well it is common sense that 410's will be worse on mileage than 373's...again more rpm = more fuel and air...

Thought it may not be a noticeable difference at the pump but you lose gas mileage...no it doesn't kill it...but it does make it worse...

I've rode in 410 cars and like the extra quickness through the gears but it is not worth the extra wear on the car...or mileage...373's for either 5spd or auto if it is your daily driver...More gear is not always better...
 
That is a not a good argument about about the v8 and gas mileage...just because you buy a 4cylinder doesn't mean you want good gas mileage...or just because you buy an 8 cylinder doesn't mean you don't care about gas mileage...

Gas mileage is a good sign of the car being in tune (putting the gears aside)...I for one like to know I can get good gas mileage and run an "8"...I would rather be getting what I do know than 3mpg...but who buys an 8 cylinder and wants good gas mileage :rolleyes:

I guess a car that gets 10mpg is faster than one that gets 30mpg :D
 
5spd - yes, of course more gear means more revs; the relevant question is whether or not the increase is significant. There's a 10% increase in engine speed moving from 3.73's to 4.10's. Let's put that in perspective by talking about how that effectively racks up 'miles' on the engine. A 3.73 geared car will cover 250,000 miles on the same number of revs that a 4.10 geared car will use to cover 225,000 miles. I don't think that difference is gonna be significant in the life of the engine - at least as a practical matter.

As for all the talk about mileage - it's WAY more complicated than simple increasing revs, or my favorite - it's been proven that the difference is only 1 mpg. The fact is that the amount of power required to move the car through the air at a given speed (let's assume flat terrain for a moment) is fixed. It doesn't matter what gear you're in or what gear's in the rear -- the amount of HP required stays constant. The amount of airflow through the engine is not just a function of rpm, it's also a function of throttle opening. Because at a fixed cruise, the engine only has to produce a VERY small fraction of maximum power available at that rpm. At a fixed 70 mph, it probably only takes something on the order of 30-40 HP to keep the car moving. So, let's say the 3.73's are at 2000 rpm at that speed. With the 4.10's you'll be at 2200 rpm. But since the amount of power being produced is the same, the throttle opening will be slightly smaller with the shorter gear. So you can't simply conclude that at higher revs - you'll move more air and that'll take more fuel. That argument would indicate more power is being produced - but it's not; because speed is fixed. And power produced is a function of the cruising speed, not the rpm level. Power AVAILABLE is a function of the rpm level. It's likely that more fuel will be consumed, but the percentage will likely be less than the % of gear increase.

You're gonna have to check if you want to see how fuel mileage is affected by rpm in your car. I did some experiments in my wife's car with the trip computer on extended runs -- running in 4th gear and then 5th gear at different road speeds. Her car has about 15% difference between 4th and 5th gear. That's almost identical to the difference between 3.55's and 4.10's. At 60 mph, it used 5% more fuel; at 65 mph it used 7% more fuel; at 70 mph it used 10% more fuel. Her car is newer and fairly aerodynamic - the differences might be slightly greater in an older Stang.
 
Michael Yount said:
5spd - yes, of course more gear means more revs; the relevant question is whether or not the increase is significant. There's a 10% increase in engine speed moving from 3.73's to 4.10's. Let's put that in perspective by talking about how that effectively racks up 'miles' on the engine. A 3.73 geared car will cover 250,000 miles on the same number of revs that a 4.10 geared car will use to cover 225,000 miles. I don't think that difference is gonna be significant in the life of the engine - at least as a practical matter.

As for all the talk about mileage - it's WAY more complicated than simple increasing revs, or my favorite - it's been proven that the difference is only 1 mpg. The fact is that the amount of power required to move the car through the air at a given speed (let's assume flat terrain for a moment) is fixed. It doesn't matter what gear you're in or what gear's in the rear -- the amount of HP required stays constant. The amount of airflow through the engine is not just a function of rpm, it's also a function of throttle opening. Because at a fixed cruise, the engine only has to produce a VERY small fraction of maximum power available at that rpm. At a fixed 70 mph, it probably only takes something on the order of 30-40 HP to keep the car moving. So, let's say the 3.73's are at 2000 rpm at that speed. With the 4.10's you'll be at 2200 rpm. But since the amount of power being produced is the same, the throttle opening will be slightly smaller with the shorter gear. So you can't simply conclude that at higher revs - you'll move more air and that'll take more fuel. That argument would indicate more power is being produced - but it's not; because speed is fixed. And power produced is a function of the cruising speed, not the rpm level. Power AVAILABLE is a function of the rpm level. It's likely that more fuel will be consumed, but the percentage will likely be less than the % of gear increase.

You're gonna have to check if you want to see how fuel mileage is affected by rpm in your car. I did some experiments in my wife's car with the trip computer on extended runs -- running in 4th gear and then 5th gear at different road speeds. Her car has about 15% difference between 4th and 5th gear. That's almost identical to the difference between 3.55's and 4.10's. At 60 mph, it used 5% more fuel; at 65 mph it used 7% more fuel; at 70 mph it used 10% more fuel. Her car is newer and fairly aerodynamic - the differences might be slightly greater in an older Stang.

I still stick by my side which is 373's are a better overall gear for performance and street... :) ...hmm...maybe even 355's... :shrug:

I think the 373's and 410's at a cruising speed (70 for example) wouldn't take any more "noticeable" gas to keep it moving at that same constant speed...if any at all...the "fake" torque produced by the either gear ratio (373's or 410's) is enough to keep the "show on the road" :nice: ...273's to 410's is different of course...
 
Grn92LX said:
I agree with Michael. I dont, however, think that 410's on the highway are gonna 'kill' mileage. Possibly could see 1 maybe 2 mpg less but i'd say the fun factor of going from a 273 to a 410 more than makes up for that slight loss. I'll have to ask my friend what kinda mileage he gets in his near stock AOD 87 GT with his 410's. I'll ask my other friend with the h/c/i 306 if his mileage got worse going from 373 to 410. Both drive their cars everyday.

Tothe original poster, you WILL be dissappointed with 373's in an aod car. I suggest you make a post titled soemthing like 'stock/near stock aod guys, what gear you running/what gear you suggest'. garantee at least 75% say 410 ;)
Sure people may say 4.10's but in the end for some it is too little of a gear. Of course we always want the best and for overall speed it seems to go hands down to the 4.10's. But you always sacrifice something and i'm sure that it really is a lot of fun with those gears on quite a few applications, but for others it is a little, overboard. I personally don't think 3.73's are a disappointing gear for an aod at all, both that and 4.10's are a fine gear for a stock 5.0. It is all preference really on what you want your car to do and how you drive it. I have heard many people happy with their 3.27's or 3.55's, so does that make them in the wrong? Of course not, it is what makes them happy and what it takes to make someone happy and pleased with what they have is different for everyone and in almost any case, it will vary all the time - it's all preference.

I personally will be going with the 3.55 gear route, why you say? Don't sit there and tell me that it is too high of a gear and that i'de be very disappointed with them and that i'm making a mistake it's my car and that's what fits me best. The reason i'm confident in it is because I am pushing about 250 rwhp and after a few more tweeks and tuning deals and especially after the supercharger with roughly 9-12 psi of boost, 3.55's may even be a little much but I am still fairly confident it will be the best choice - I will just have to wait and see. My point is that it all has to do with what your plans are and what your car is going to do, don't just modify or change something for the current but rather the near and distant future so you won't regret doing something in regards to some other plans you have.

Back to your original final statment, the only real sad and disappointing thing I will say about gearing is the fact that most of these things came with those slug 2.73's :notnice:
 
5spd GT said:
I still stick by my side which is 373's are a better overall gear for performance and street... :) ...hmm...maybe even 355's... :shrug:

I think the 373's and 410's at a cruising speed (70 for example) wouldn't take any more "noticeable" gas to keep it moving at that same constant speed...if any at all...the "fake" torque produced by the either gear ratio (373's or 410's) is enough to keep the "show on the road" :nice: ...273's to 410's is different of course...
I agree with both of you guys in a respectable sense. The main thing I see though is the fact that to do the same speed with either gear will require a different rpm. It's I suppose more freed-up "parasitic drag" from the engine because it is easier for the engine to rev under loads. I also however see the weights of these cars and by today's standards these are definitely not tanks are heavy luxury vehicles/SUVs where it takes a lot of force to get them going. I mean come on, we're talking about a 3000 pound aerodynamic car strapped to a 5 liter V8 - does anyone else see the easy time a vehicle such as that has in getting rolling on a normal basis? It isn't a great load on the engine in the first place really. The differences between the 3.73 and 4.10s is minimal however but nonetheless - they are there. Picking the RIGHT gear IS a science. If you want the best for performance overall then only you can be the deciding factor. No one can sit there and tell you without a unanimous decision of what to get because different people will always say something different. No one can choose for you what you want but yourself - the final decision lies with the owner - always.
 
87'GTstang said:
No one can choose for you what you want but yourself - the final decision lies with the owner - always.

Exactly...and that is why there are so many threads pertaining to this because everybody has a different car and wants to do different things with it...so they ask for a suggestion...

Oh and on the 410's making the car slower than the 373's...Grn92lx - You said that he couldn't drive...the car is an auto... :nice: ...but hey we both got our own versions of what it to much or what is needed...you say no less than 410's...I say 373's all around...