306+what= 325 streetable horsepower

[mytight95]

Grady, my definition of streetable is a cruise around town, no overheating, a little finnicky throttle and such as that doesn't really bother me...... i would call them power glitch's..........lol


RC, i like the idea of naturally aspirated, because i don't want to go through the trouble you guys go through with head gaskets, belt slippage, etc.... and if i ever do decide to boost a motor it owuld be turboed, i will have the block and engine that comes out of the car now...I haven't even driven a car that will make 300rwhp before, so i don't know what i would expect...lol.. bet it'd be a blast though :biggrin:



However i would like the car to be able to attend track days in atlanta which is a hair over 200 miles....... Want to be able to drive it there......without issues......

I also thought with the 185's you would have to have a high revving engine, or one that would move serious air, Is this the area where the camshaft is gonna make it or break it? Can a camshaft adapt the smaller cubic inches to move enough air for the larger 185's...... with what? duration, overlap, or mostly lift?


Joe, i assume you have already got your AFR heads right? If so would you mind taking some pics of the ports etc, and maybe tell me the way you had the heads set-up.

thanks again guys


Jason

 

[mytight95]

Also i was curious if the Afr's have to have springs upgraded, or anything like that to handle a very high lift or high duration cam.... cahnge lock or retainers?


jason

 

[Grn92LX]

You will need upgraded springs. Do NOT skimp on that. Do the 185's. They will not be high revving. The cam and the rest of the combo will dictate that. I would suggest spinning to at least 6500 and making some real good power. Your car will be perfectly streetable and like I said if done right 400rwhp is acheivable. Doesn't sound liek your willing to do it so, i'll say if done good it'll easily do 350-360hp. An 1 3/4" longtube may be needed, but talk to your cam grinder. An rpm intake with lower ported will work out great I think. If you were willing to take it higher and make more up top, an rpm II or holley would be cool. Get the compression to at least 10.5:1. 75mm tb, 30# injectors.

A guy on corral (86cobra) made 371rwhp with a n/a 306 with ported TW heads, holley intake, FTI custom cam, 1 3/4" hooker longtubes, 3" exhaust. It made pkenty of low end AND it held usable power to like 7000. It peaked around 6000 rpm. Just an example.

Like I said, get the 185's, its $25 well spent.

 

[mytight95]

yeah i went and checked FTI's website to check out the pricing, you are correct on the 25 dollar diff. I have been sticking money in jewelry box here in the hous 100$ at a time as i can afford it for a couple months bout halfway there........... I thought about just ordering them with my CC, but FTI doesn't tack checks, or credit cards.....lol......

Long tubes gonna make that much more power? I was looking at just the engine alone, Can i achieve close to the rear power level i want with the 70mm tb.....????/



jason

 

[Grn92LX]

Like I said, talk with the cam grinder when you're ready about what size exhaust to use. If you already have a 70mm, use it. I said get a 75mm thinking you had a stock tb.

 

[94GTLaserRC]

...........and like I said if done right 400rwhp is acheivable. Doesn't sound liek your willing to do it so, i'll say if done good it'll easily do 350-360hp. An 1 3/4" longtube may be needed,.

A guy on corral (86cobra) made 371rwhp with a n/a 306 with ported TW heads, holley intake, FTI custom cam, 1 3/4" hooker longtubes, 3" exhaust. It made pkenty of low end AND it held usable power to like 7000. It peaked around 6000 rpm. Just an example.

Like I said, get the 185's, its $25 well spent.

.....and Im sure that that is a well put together combo, so where are you getting 400 rwhp from?

RC

 

[mytight95]

well i am not being imaginative, so i won't worry about the capability of it.........400 that is.....


lol


good help guys thanks...


jason

 

[wytstang]

If this is going to be more of a street bruser(sp?) then track star it's easier to plant 300rwhp then 400rwhp from stop light to stop light. Unless you have the funds to keep up with drag radials replacements making big hp and trying to plant it may cost you more in the long run. .02

 

[mytight95]

i have a set of drag radials if someone wants to call me out, well now i have two sets, bf goodrich 15's gonna put on some welds(still left to buy), and a set on my 16" wheels nittos..........


i am already doing suspension now anyhow, and i am gonna go with the Tokico Illumina adjustables for drag racing, they adjust to full loose etc. for the track and like 50 50 for street driving... sounds good to me.....have the bullit spring kit, bought an airbag to go in the right rear........I don't know if i am gonna like them though they aren't really low enough........so some H&R or Eibach may make there way on there.......lol



jason



jason

 

[Pokageek]

When you guys are talking pistons I could use a little education. For example, when they built my engine they said they put "flat top" pistons in it to make MORE compression. They have very tiny notches (for the valves? I guess..). Sooo, does this limit me on the type of head? Do I need BIGGER notches for a 185? I thought it was ideal to have smaller notches. Now I am confused...

 

[Grn92LX]

.....and Im sure that that is a well put together combo, so where are you getting 400 rwhp from?

RC

Well for one, there was a similar topic discussed on corral titled "afr 165's or 185's" for a kids 306. I of course said get the 185's. Ed Curtis chimed in and said also to get the 185's since the kid had the p to v clearance with his srp pistons. Ed also said that 400hp is do-able.

I would say to get the 400hp (or close to it) with the 185's on a 306, he would need to mill them to get the compression to around 11:1, good valve springs and maybe even titanium retainers. Car would need to be revved to around 7000. I'd say an rpm II or a holley would do it, 75-90mm tb, 1 3/4" longtubes and a aggressive custom cam. 4.10 gears minimum.

Like I said, it doesn't sound like 'mytight95' wants to go all out, so still use the 185's with a spring upgrade, but a smaller intake like the rpm would be fine. I would recommend porting the lower. A custom cam from Ed, hitech motorsports or AFM would work great! Get a cam that'll make power to around 6500 and 360+hp is attainable. Why spend $1300 on a head only to not make good power? I made lots of mistakes on my 302 combo and I for sure learned from them.

 

[5spd GT]

400rwhp is not going to be doable with street manners and streetability. How many and what accessories would be deleted? what tranny...? It just isn't going to happen.

If your going to list horsepower numbers list how they got it...what accessories driven by the engine were deleted...what other "tricks" lightened rotating assembly etc...are being made. At what rpm? etc...etc.

400rwhp isn't going to be streetable. Their is no right or wrong way. Sorry.

Your going to miss a lot of bottomend if you try to push the 306 to far in hp numbers.

AFR 165's are just fine. Performer rpm will be fine (get the lower ported by tmoss on here). Get a nice cam but not so aggressive that you have no vaccum so you can use your brakes still safely

It isn't all about power sometimes...you have to look at the entire picture.

Good Luck with it!

Grn92lx - How did you learn from them...what are some things you have changed...what the 75mm TB that you didn't feel any difference from? You went stroker...you didn't change your 302 setup. You haven't run bigger heads/bigger cam or bigger intake like your suggesting...your getting it from "hearsay" like "us". What is point being proven. Are you just marketing? You have heard tha before I know

 

[mytight95]

i am not trying to go extreme, like i have posted, anything 325 or above would be awesome, i may even go 308, as i have been told by someone that they have some pistons etc. dirt cheap.........and i know the Cubic inches wouldn't hurt....


i live in a small town, i just want a car i can drive to the track and run low 8's in the eighth, maybe break into sevens...... but doubt it, and still have fun with it on the street without reliability issues....


jason

 

[mytight95]

400rwhp is not going to be doable with street manners and streetability. How many and what accessories would be deleted? what tranny...? It just isn't going to happen.

If your going to list horsepower numbers list how they got it...what accessories driven by the engine were deleted...what other "tricks" lightened rotating assembly etc...are being made. At what rpm? etc...etc.

400rwhp isn't going to be streetable. Their is no right or wrong way. Sorry.

Your going to miss a lot of bottomend if you try to push the 306 to far in hp numbers.

AFR 165's are just fine. Performer rpm will be fine (get the lower ported by tmoss on here). Get a nice cam but not so aggressive that you have no vaccum so you can use your brakes still safely

It isn't all about power sometimes...you have to look at the entire picture.

Good Luck with it!

Grn92lx - How did you learn from them...what are some things you have changed...what the 75mm TB that you didn't feel any difference from? You went stroker...you didn't change your 302 setup. You haven't run bigger heads/bigger cam or bigger intake like your suggesting...your getting it from "hearsay" like "us". What is point being proven. Are you just marketing? You have heard tha before I know

looking at your sig you have close to the same setup as i want...... what kinda numbers you get out of it? or do you have any? WIlling to share times or anything, tell me how it pulls etc.....


thanks

jason

 

[Grn92LX]

Grn92lx - How did you learn from them...what are some things you have changed...what the 75mm TB that you didn't feel any difference from? You went stroker...you didn't change your 302 setup. You haven't run bigger heads/bigger cam or bigger intake like your suggesting...your getting it from "hearsay" like "us". What is point being proven. Are you just marketing? You have heard tha before I know

400hp IS attainable AND streetable. Not gonna argue that fact.

I'll try and make this quick. So I didn't go from a tfs stage 1 cam to a BIGGER fti custom on my 302? So I didn't mill my heads? So I didn't swap from shortys to longtubes?

When I swapped to the bigger tb that Ed recommended I also swapped a new maf. I didn't (at that time) have anyway to tune the car. Its kinda hard to feel 5-10hp. I never went back to the track to see my gain. I'll just go by what other combos in my league have done with the tb swap, 1-2mph. There was a thread in here with a guys 75mm tb dyno results. He gained a bit over the 70mm and gained some low end too It was your typical h/c/i 302, that guy white94cobra I believe his name is.

I'm not gonna talk about what i've learned because you'll come in here and quote every sentence and I don't feel like dealing with that. Lets just say over the past 5 years of "tinkering" I learned a TON.

Mytight95, it looks as if this thread is gonna head down the sh itter, if you need some help in building a killer street combo, PM he. If you wanna spend $1300 on heads + a $150 spring to run 108 mph, others got you covered

 

[5spd GT]

looking at your sig you have close to the same setup as i want...... what kinda numbers you get out of it? or do you have any? WIlling to share times or anything, tell me how it pulls etc.....


thanks

jason

Yeah, my car is my 110% daily driver It pulls hard...with comments like "that felt like a rollercoaster" and "you know that feeling in your stomach when you jump off something..."

It pulls strongly but my 302 bottomend (lots of miles) is "getting worse". During it's "getting worse" stage I ran 8.3 @ 86.22mph. This is with no tune as well and no toying. I know it isn't the driving...I have got that backed up with other cars I have drove for people.

We were actually going to make a run to the dyno in the next couple weeks with my buddies blown 02 gt but he has since "blew it" and I'm sure were not going now. Not as practical.

400hp is not attainable and streetable. As the old saying goes, you can't have your cake both ways.

A 300rwhp (or more) would make your car very fun and be very streetable. I'm sure I'm somewhere in the 300rwhp range and it pulls nicely to 6k. I have drove it like this for 15,000 miles all day every day...very reliable. It gave me more than I expected with the combo I got...

I'm telling you if you start getting to aggressive with your setup like to big of heads and cam/intake...your going to lose that torque and your brakes (not enough vac. on the cam). If you want all your accessories that will hurt power...but well worth it on a daily driver like mine. Those, like grn92lx, like to give you the positives and strickly power numbers on combos. That isn't how a combo for a daily driver like yours should be dealt with.

Good Luck!

 

[5spd GT]

400hp IS attainable AND streetable. Not gonna argue that fact.

Wrong, show me one...just one that has 400rwhp like you said earlier. Don't change the numbers now. Show me one that drives it daily driver "like"...and has their accessories for "creature comfort"...just one Grn92lx...just one.

I'll try and make this quick. So I didn't go from a tfs stage 1 cam to a BIGGER fti custom on my 302? So I didn't mill my heads? So I didn't swap from shortys to longtubes?

You complained about the FTI cam when you were "all" Jay Allen...that cam wasn't that much bigger anyways. So milling your heads means your a 302 expert. Yep, your N/A. Wow, a header swap...haven't we all did that... So where have you learned and made "mistakes"...

When I swapped to the bigger tb that Ed recommended I also swapped a new maf. I didn't (at that time) have anyway to tune the car. Its kinda hard to feel 5-10hp. I never went back to the track to see my gain. I'll just go by what other combos in my league have done with the tb swap, 1-2mph. There was a thread in here with a guys 75mm tb dyno results. He gained a bit over the 70mm and gained some low end too It was your typical h/c/i 302, that guy white94cobra I believe his name is.

Show me the torque...was it peak? Peak isn't nothing...it is across the powerband. I'm sorry but a "bigger blade" isn't going to allow more torque down low solidly. Very easy surface area type physicals. So you say 5-10hp but your 1-2mph equates to 10-20hp Hmmm...you also did that with a properly calibrated MAF...wow...and you still can't say you gained but 5-10hp or wait? 10-20hp? Which one is it? So what is the 1-2mph from (10-20hp)? Stock tb? 65mm tb on a street car? 70mm tb on a street car?

Your definiton of a typical h/c/i 302 guy is those who carry there accessories and care about torque and fun factor and reliability and street manners. Yep, I'm guilty...

I'm not gonna talk about what i've learned because you'll come in here and quote every sentence and I don't feel like dealing with that. Lets just say over the past 5 years of "tinkering" I learned a TON.

Yep, I will. You haven't learned anything but "bigger is better" You remind me of these "ole carb guys" that slap on a 950cfm "double pumper" on their stock 350's looking for a boost

That whole 30lb injectors on a h/c/i 302 started all kinds of problems for people. Why don't you see "running to rich with 24's with h/c/i" threads. You know the money you have helped cause people to waste. It would literally be in the tens of thousands I bet I'm serious...

Mytight95, it looks as if this thread is gonna head down the sh itter, if you need some help in building a killer street combo, PM he. If you wanna spend $1300 on heads + a $150 spring to run 108 mph, others got you covered

So anybody that doesn't go along with your "bigger is better" theory ruins a thread or is wrong...hmm...interesting.

My cam (110% street car) has the capability of trapping 110mph...Ed set me up for it. With my shorties/65mm TB. It isn't hurting killercanary when he traps 112.51mph? Did you get convienent amnesia and forget his "small combo" of AFR 165's, Performer intake, fti cam (all small in your eyes) got in a 3,600lb vert Where is your "bigger is better guys at that drive their cars everyday? Keep'em coming grn92x - keep'em coming

 

[mytight95]

i removed ac, smog about two years ago, so the only accessories i include are the neccessities.......lol i include power steering as a neccessitie........lol

I am gonna do my research after all it is my money i am spending, i was just looking for the it can be done, that was the push i was looking for, I have this thread, same thing on about 3 other forums including the local one, and everyone i talk to says i can build it to 325 with perfect street manners, and i think that is what my goal will be......



jason

 

[5spd GT]

mytight95 - Your not going to have "perfect" street manners but you can get that power number with a fair amount of ease. How about just listen to them and get your power and see how "perfect" it is in the street manner category. A couple accessories deleted as in your case will help it out.

 

[Grn92LX]

Dave, i'm not gonna respond to most of your useless jibber jabber. I will, however, show you the dudes 75mm tb results. Now remember, this is results on a h/c/i 302 showing his gains OVER a 70mm tb. http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=576886 Cliff notes, he gained 6hp up top and 5 ft/lbs down low/across

Mytight, talk to GTjake if your looking for 325hp. He's been there/done that. Now he's got a 75mm race tb and he's planning on an rpm upper.