331 ... N/A now ... KB later ... approach?

BlackVert · Sep 19, 2006

My long-term goal is to make my 1995 Mustang convertible a streetable, daily driver that puts down 325-350hp N/A at the wheels through my T5, with all my accessories (A/C and P/S) and smog stuff (EGR and cats). But I also have a 1.8L Kenne-Bell sitting in my basement that I'd like to bolt back on eventually.

I have found a place (M&R engines) that builds economy 331 short blocks with forged pistons and rods and a nodular crank for $1550 shipped, so I am thinking that is a good starting point. Also, I have a Pro Products Typhoon Intake and some MAC long tubes that are Jet-Hot coated. But I am not married to them.

So here is what I am thinking:

- 331 short block, nodular crank, forged pistons and rods
- What compression ratio for both N/A now and the KB later?
- What heads?
- What CAM?
- 1.6" or 1.7" rockers?
- Pro Products Typhoon Intake (while N/A)?
- Jet-Hot coated MAC long tubes?
- High-flow cat pipe
- 30# injectors
- Lightning MAF
- 75mm BBK T/B
- Old style Holley SysteMax lower / 1.8L KB / 42# injectors later

Is 325-350 N/A with the ability to go KB later realistic?

Killercanary · Sep 19, 2006

It is realistic. I would shoot for 9:1 compression. It will be the middle ground for both an NA and blown application. the cam is going to be the tricky part to find one that works now and later. As for heads... you know what I'd be choosing.

BlackVert · Sep 19, 2006

Thanks Paul. I was thinking 9.0:1 too.

Don at Lasota Racing also says 9.0:1 and recommends AFR heads. He recommended a Jay Allen cam.

http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/

Jay sells Canfield heads, maybe he can cut me a deal on a cam/195cc package.

BTW, I have an email into RNH for their advice. I haven't heard back from them yet.

Killercanary · Sep 19, 2006

I know Don likes Jay Allen, I like Ed Curtis. My dad and I, along with my cousin Matt and his KB's 94Gt have all had great luck with Ed's cams and such. You know what my car has done, my dad's NA 302 cubic inch combo makes 347rwhp and ran 11.84 at 117mph at 3350lbs, and my cousin made 396rwhp with 6lbs of boost with his KB, AFR165's and an FTI cam.

AznStanger3v · Sep 19, 2006

i say 9.5:1 and lower boost. but i just like to go against the grain. im in agreeance with ol pauly boy. i think the biggest hurdle is the cam. id pick Jay Allen, only bc my experience with Ed Curtis wayyyyy back in the day didn't go as well as I would have liked it to go. Cam was fine, although the customer service wasnt to my liking.

BlackVert · Sep 20, 2006

I just talked to Jay Allen. Holy crap. He says that with the 331, his cam, some Canfield 195CC heads with 64CC chambers (he sells them complete with matching springs and everything), and the Typhoon intake, I can expect to put down 350-375 N/A at the wheels, 50-state emissions legal.

That would put me right around 9.0:1 and Jay says with that CR, I could even use 87 octane gas.

350/.85 = 412hp at the flywheel
375/.85 = 441hp at the flywheel

If it really makes what Jay says it will, I doubt I'll have any desire to put the blower back on!

Grn92LX · Sep 20, 2006

BlackVert said:
If it really makes what Jay says it will, I doubt I'll have any desire to put the blower back on!

Dude, just build a n/a 347 then with some compression (10.5-11:1) and let Jay take care of the top 1/2 of the induction stuff. How's an easy 400rwhp sound with no tuning headaches? Sell your blower and bank the money.

BlackVert · Sep 20, 2006

Grn92LX said:
Dude, just build a n/a 347 then with some compression (10.5-11:1) and let Jay take care of the top 1/2 of the induction stuff. How's an easy 400rwhp sound with no tuning headaches? Sell your blower and bank the money.

if i could find a 347 shortblock for the same price as the 331, then i'd definately be leaning that way.

5spd GT · Sep 20, 2006

A 331 has more piston material, stick with it if your adding a blower later. Less side pressure as well, where the blocks are prone to crack (down the middle)...

Of course, as you know...watch that block splitting power.

I personally like Ed Curtis...

Grn92LX · Sep 20, 2006

BlackVert said:
if i could find a 347 shortblock for the same price as the 331, then i'd definately be leaning that way.

My builder (and Paul's builder as well) charges the same for a 347. Link in sig.

Daggar · Sep 20, 2006

+1 for selling the KB. That 1.8 is not going to be large enough to support any stroker worth it's sand. You'll need a 2.2L Blowzilla/Flowzilla to displace enough air to properly feed a stroker.

BlackVert · Sep 20, 2006

Grn92LX said:
My builder (and Paul's builder as well) charges the same for a 347. Link in sig.

i have an email in to them, but they haven't responded yet.

i guess i'll try calling them tomorrow.

they are probably going to have a hard time beating $1550 shipped though.

AznStanger3v · Sep 20, 2006

building a bad ass NA motor is fun. I say up the compression a little, at least to be able to use 91 or whatever your midgrade in your area is.

Grn92LX · Sep 20, 2006

BlackVert said:
i have an email in to them, but they haven't responded yet.

i guess i'll try calling them tomorrow.

they are probably going to have a hard time beating $1550 shipped though.

Not with the quality you're getting inside and the little "extra's" Rick does. You won't find any REAL builders that will do a shortblock for $1500.

BlackVert · Sep 20, 2006

Grn92LX said:
Not with the quality you're getting inside and the little "extra's" Rick does. You won't find any REAL builders that will do a shortblock for $1500.

http://www.mandrengines.com/index.html

M&R Engines said:
About M&R Engines:

M&R has been building professional custom engines for over 15 years. We have been featured on 6 episodes of American Hot Rod the TV series. We have been published in dozens of magazine articles and our racing engine division has won over 20 NASCAR championship titles.

Sure looks like a "REAL" builder to me.

Grn92LX · Sep 20, 2006

A real builder will notify the customer what parts are inside the engine. Not just "4340 H beams" LOL.

Follow your heart, i'll stick with my builder

I saw a 331 shortblock on their site for $2349 + shipping. Fyi, my 347 was cheaper and has better (name brand) parts and other 'tricks' I will not mention.

cctinnell · Sep 21, 2006

I had very good luck with my 331 from Keith Craft. It's a little more pricey but for the insurance of having good parts its worth it.

5spd GT · Sep 21, 2006

Looks like a fine engine company BlackVert.

Grn92lx - That is for simplistic reasons. If he ask M&R he will get an answer. Just like if you ask Rick, you will get an answer. Your "tricks" didn't show up at the track.

cctinnell - Me 2, how about that...one particular member on here said I "wasted my money" with a 306...lol. Nope, I just wanted quality and longevity at the time. I wasn't going for power. Keith Craft did a good job, and I was impressed and they got me my engine done 4x (literally) faster than some others they had on order, because of the time frame I needed it in, with no extra charge and great service!

Daggar · Sep 21, 2006

I wonder... Does all of M&R's short blocks come balanced and blue printed? I've never ordered from them and just wondered.

MattZ281LE · Sep 21, 2006

Having been down the stroker KB route here are a few of my experiences

Choose your cam wisely. I had the 2.2 Blowzilla on a Keith Craft 8:1 compression 327, ported Vic Jr's My motor was to radical and high reving for the KB. It was done by 5500 rpm not much over 400 hp.

I swapped over to a Vortech T-Trim and made 660rwhp 570rwtq at 6200 rpm.

Keep the CR down for a KB....they run VERY hot. Watch the pulley sizing too. easy to overspeed them. Cost me a head gasket once. and the 1.8 has no bypass. It is good for a near stock bolt on motor.

Do NOT skimp on a fuel system for a blower car. That includes a good MAF and plenty of injector/pump.

Now on the stock block motor with AFR 165's mild cam and ported lower intake made 385/420 with the 2.2. The motor made 306/330 NA too

I learned alot about blowers by trial and error.

331 ... N/A now ... KB later ... approach?

BlackVert

Killercanary

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