331 w/ ported GT40s

[thumper460]

doubtful if YOU can pull the 400 HP on a set of heads and stock cam!! probably was done though!! And yes a dyno engine in a controlled dyno room isnt real life, and there was no comparison engines run to see an apple to apple comparison..

Yes, there have been a number of 400 +HP 302s on ported heads ( 289's and 5.0's) that seem realistic and do able, however NOT but the average Joe that puts a bottom end together , tosses in a camshaft, and heads and runs it!!

ALL that being said.. the same site as mentioned.. the P's with their meager 190/127 @ .500 will allow 391-424 HP, the GT40's.. 187/129 @ .500 will support 385-417 HP or maybe the X head.. that has a 215-155 @ .500 and will support 442/480 HP!!! Not to mention the PORTED E7s and their posted numbers will allow 446/ 484 HP on their 217 / 174 @.500 !! My heads are at 219/ 154 @ .500 lift!! Looking at the .600 lift , or the .700 lift is a total waste of time on the average street/ race car!! the Low to mid are more important than the total lift , as you go thru those numbers two times , and peak only once!! Dont for get the runner CC's.. the Valve job... the FASTER the engine builds power the SOONER the car is in front!!

There is a point when the average guy and shop are surpassed in the HP game.. 320 WHP is do able on a FMS cam and ported heads!! if you pull the 16% for drive train loss.. you are in the 380-390 BHP range!! There is no reason why there cannot be 350 WHP with a 351W on the Stock GT40 heads and definitely with PORTED GT40 heads!! ( 302-302 stuff)

You push in there the experienced builder, the correct camshaft, the intake and fuel.. there are guys hitting the 400 BHP mark on STOCK SBF heads!! Just be cause it is not the norm.. it is out there , and is being done!! Again the 302-302 is too strong of a statement!! 302 parts can and do equal MORE than 302 power!! add some boost.. or Nitrous.. and you can run easy 450 to 475 WHP on the ported E7s or GT40s...

SOOOOOOooo.... can it be done!! YES!! is it done all the time...NO!! is there more power in the AFR / TF/ aftermarket heads.. HELL YES!! But is it a guarantee for that power...NO!! The aftermarket is great for the SBF, but buying and bolting on, wanting a 12 sec ride ( 11 or 10s on power adders) Save the money.. go with the modified ported parts and remember.. 302 parts DOESNT mean 302 POWER!!
( and WHAT is 302 power anyway??)
If your looking for a 10 sec N/A ride in a race car (5.0) .. then the aftermarket is a good thing !!

Just me......................................

Thumper

 

[rednotch1234]

302 power = 225fwhp stock - 400fwhp or less modified n/a of course. I know you can make more but then streetabilty and you pocket suffers

 

[ntstock93]

doubtful if YOU can pull the 400 HP on a set of heads and stock cam!! probably was done though!! And yes a dyno engine in a controlled dyno room isnt real life, and there was no comparison engines run to see an apple to apple comparison..

Yes, there have been a number of 400 +HP 302s on ported heads ( 289's and 5.0's) that seem realistic and do able, however NOT but the average Joe that puts a bottom end together , tosses in a camshaft, and heads and runs it!!

ALL that being said.. the same site as mentioned.. the P's with their meager 190/127 @ .500 will allow 391-424 HP, the GT40's.. 187/129 @ .500 will support 385-417 HP or maybe the X head.. that has a 215-155 @ .500 and will support 442/480 HP!!! Not to mention the PORTED E7s and their posted numbers will allow 446/ 484 HP on their 217 / 174 @.500 !! My heads are at 219/ 154 @ .500 lift!! Looking at the .600 lift , or the .700 lift is a total waste of time on the average street/ race car!! the Low to mid are more important than the total lift , as you go thru those numbers two times , and peak only once!! Dont for get the runner CC's.. the Valve job... the FASTER the engine builds power the SOONER the car is in front!!

There is a point when the average guy and shop are surpassed in the HP game.. 320 WHP is do able on a FMS cam and ported heads!! if you pull the 16% for drive train loss.. you are in the 380-390 BHP range!! There is no reason why there cannot be 350 WHP with a 351W on the Stock GT40 heads and definitely with PORTED GT40 heads!! ( 302-302 stuff)

You push in there the experienced builder, the correct camshaft, the intake and fuel.. there are guys hitting the 400 BHP mark on STOCK SBF heads!! Just be cause it is not the norm.. it is out there , and is being done!! Again the 302-302 is too strong of a statement!! 302 parts can and do equal MORE than 302 power!! add some boost.. or Nitrous.. and you can run easy 450 to 475 WHP on the ported E7s or GT40s...

SOOOOOOooo.... can it be done!! YES!! is it done all the time...NO!! is there more power in the AFR / TF/ aftermarket heads.. HELL YES!! But is it a guarantee for that power...NO!! The aftermarket is great for the SBF, but buying and bolting on, wanting a 12 sec ride ( 11 or 10s on power adders) Save the money.. go with the modified ported parts and remember.. 302 parts DOESNT mean 302 POWER!!
( and WHAT is 302 power anyway??)
If your looking for a 10 sec N/A ride in a race car (5.0) .. then the aftermarket is a good thing !!

Just me......................................

Thumper

"the FASTER the engine builds power" This is exactly what I am looking for. Im not looking for a high RPM screamer. Im not looking for a"total hp" number. I would like a stop light to stop light killer and something that can rip tires right off idle and pull till about 6000 rpms. More of an 1/8th mile car. So with that said (actually typed) the 331/347 stroker with ported GT-40 heads would be what I am looking for?

 

[enyawix]

Sorry but those afrs are not gt-40s , And those number are flywheel hp without any access...... Put that moter in a car and it wont put out any where near 400.

I know, but I only what 351hp not 400hp

I have a 351 not 302

 

[enyawix]

"the FASTER the engine builds power" This is exactly what I am looking for. Im not looking for a high RPM screamer. Im not looking for a"total hp" number. I would like a stop light to stop light killer and something that can rip tires right off idle and pull till about 6000 rpms. More of an 1/8th mile car. So with that said (actually typed) the 331/347 stroker with ported GT-40 heads would be what I am looking for?

That is what I have now, but It will get old. Sooner or later you will want big numbers. I want more N/A power so I can run less boost and more compression.

 

[5spd GT]

302 parts make 302 hp period

Incorrect.

I have seen so many strokers in the 350rwhp range with afr 165's, edelbrock performers with the 1.9in. valve, performer and performer rpm intakes, and custom cam. The same parts (in order to save money) were on there previous 302/347 and would dyno 30-50hp less. Do the math

 

[5spd GT]

a 400hp 302 with stock cam!


http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=588067

That engine was on an engine dyno with no accessories. It does not take into account drivetrain loss (15-18%) and accessory drag (10-20% est.). Plus they used little tricks, like retarding the stock cam and this and that.

If they would have did the same test with AFR's, TW's, Edel., and an aftermarket cam, you would see the number magically jump to maybe 475-500hp

 

[enyawix]

That engine was on an engine dyno with no accessories. It does not take into account drivetrain loss (15-18%) and accessory drag (10-20% est.). Plus they used little tricks, like retarding the stock cam and this and that.

If they would have did the same test with AFR's, TW's, Edel., and an aftermarket cam, you would see the number magically jump to maybe 475-500hp

I would like the the same test part for part, but with thumper's heads.

 

[thumper460]

dyno..

COOL... set it up!! This is now going way off course... the 302 parts for 302 power, was what I was offended with.....!! That statement is wrong and mis-leading, that's all!! What is 302 power?? Yes IF you can get the power that the heads will support, the after market heads ( Non Ford) can support more power... but you cant!! a few can, thus these articles , but the mainstream can not!! SOOooooooo..... the 302 parts will supply the power most are looking for... esp on the budget!! And you must feel kinda funny when your doors were just handed to you, and you go over to talk to the guy, he raises the hood and you see iron FORD 302 heads... just a thought!!


Just me............................................

Thumper

 

[ntstock93]

So what would be a perfect 347 combo with GT-40 heads that would pull like crazy off the line and pull till about 6000rpms. (kind of like a LT1 350 in the mid 1990's)

I have a used Cobra upper intake that I would like to use. What headers would be ideal? What compression ratio would work?

 

[ntstock93]

Yep, I've just dropped a 331 with ported GT-40s, cobra intake, 1.6 RR, TFS-1 cam, 9.75:1 compression into my '88 GT.

If all goes well this week I'll be firing it up on Saturday. I'll let you know what kind of power it makes

Any updates?

 

[68keyblr]

Any updates?

I don't have any actual dyno numbers yet...just got the first 500 break in miles on it.

I can say this though - it runs like a raped ape! I've got stock 3.08 gears on it and 1st gear is basically useless it spins so bad. Once it hooks, look out!

An '02 LS-1 Camaro found out the hard way LOL. I had 2 passengers in the car and this Camaro starts bugging us...wouldn't leave us alone so I punched it when he did and walked away from him fairly easily.

My brother in law estimates 425 HP/TQ at the flywheel but I think that's probably on the high side...I'm guessing about 380-400.

Keep in mind, I'm still running the stock MAF, injectors, and throttle body!

After I install the 24# injectors, 70MM TB and 76MM MAF I'll take it to the dyno for a tune and report back

 

[tmoss]

when someone comes on a forum and says the "302 parts make 302 power" it just tells me he doesn't have the knowledge/expereience to do it. Mike Washington just posted some "Factory Stock" style unported E7 & HO intake results - 11.47 @ something like 116mph. Mike knows how to make it work. This IS a 100% race engine though.

Ported stock heads and ported HO intakes have made right at 300RWHP/330RWTQ on a 302-306ci engine. If that's "302 power" I'll take it for a nice street engine. Up that to Ported GT40s and a ported Explorer and we're into the 320-330RWHP on a 302-306. These are NOT race engines.

There is more than one way to skin a cat and if you choose the aftermarket route, that's cool, but don't come in forums hatin on stock parts becasue some people know how to make it work.

 

[68keyblr]

Amen Brother T-Moss. I can testify to that

A guy that works for me has a new Dodge Daytona. I took him for a ride and he could not believe how fast my Mustang is. When I popped the hood and showed him "all stock Ford parts" he simply couldn't believe it...It was awesome.

Used '93 Cobra Intake, Polished: $250
Used GT-40 Heads, ported w/ 1.6 FMS Roller Rockers: $550
Stock MAF and 19# injectors: $50

The look on a 5.7 Hemi owner's face when my "stock" Mustang smokes his Charger: Priceless!

 

[tmoss]

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7295125#post7295125

 

[ntstock93]

Proven 331/347 street driven combos

Im getting ready to get the bottom end. Im still up in the air about the top end.
Can some stroker owners throw up their combos and ET's.

 

[Cobra912]

This is what I'm throwing in my 331 that I'm buildin right now. Hope to make at least 300 at the rear:

SRP pistons
Eagle crank/rods w/arp bolts
5.0 Edelbrock heads (1.9)
Canton tall covers
Harland Sharp 1.6 stud Rockers
nitrous cam NX264HR comps cam
main stud girdle
Canton 7qt pan (15620) w/ pick-up
FMS HV oil pump w/ hardened shaft
Crane lifters
FMS indexed double roller chain
Edelbrock Performer II upper/lower intake
Edelbrock 75 mm tb/spacer
TFS 1" spacer
28oz sfi billet flywheel
28oz streetdampr balancer
Ford Racing Water pump
FRPP 30lbs injectors
Pro-M 76mm mass air
Paxton fuel regulator
JLT cold air kit

 

[enyawix]

the 302 loves E85!

13:1 is safe on E85 at 12 degrees base timing!
The biggest factors limiting power being the lower intake and heads

 

[StinkinLincoln]

wow we got a real close motor.

This is what I'm throwing in my 331 that I'm buildin right now. Hope to make at least 300 at the rear:

SRP pistons
Eagle crank/rods w/arp bolts
5.0 Edelbrock heads RPM though 2.02 (1.9)
Canton tall covers
Harland Sharp 1.6 stud Rockers
nitrous cam NX264HR comps cam xe270hr-114
main stud girdle
Canton 7qt pan (15620) w/ pick-up
FMS HV oil pump w/ hardened shaft
Crane lifters
FMS indexed double roller chain
Edelbrock Performer II upper/lower intake
Edelbrock 75 mm tb/spacer
TFS 1" spacer
28oz sfi billet flywheel
28oz streetdampr balancer
Ford Racing Water pump
FRPP 30lbs injectors
Pro-M 75mm 76mm mass air
Paxton fuel regulator
JLT cold air kit

 

[Cobra912]

Oh my............

I better go to my garage to make sure all my stuff is there.......