347 Build Non Block/chi Costs

[6ScubA9]

What is a gt

Plan on bigger MAS,inj,fuel pump,fuel press regulator,throttle body,headers,misc little extras. So if you do budget 10k I think you'll be fine. If you want to do this a lot cheaper you might want to do what mike said above. A topend kit on a junkyard gt40 motor is very cheap and can make good everyday power. I personally think I'd add a dart block to any 302 based build. The extra money is well spent.

What is a gt40 motor? Could I go to somebody to have them find the parts and build, for cheap still?

 

[6ScubA9]

500hp is the general rule of thumb I tell customers....some take more, some take less. I'd put a cast crank stroker shortblock combo that is $2000 assembled and those internals will take 600hp more then the block. If you have the money and plan for more power down the road then a $4600 Dart based shortblock makes sense

A block like this?: http://treperformance.com/i-133556-ford-331-347-performance-short-block.html
Says it's good for a 10 sec car?

 

[mikestang63]

What is a gt

What is a gt40 motor? Could I go to somebody to have them find the parts and build, for cheap still?

They came in the 1993 Cobra, Ford Lightning, and many ford trucks.

Go to any junkyard and find a 93-97 Explorer motor. It has the GT40 top end on it with the same EGR setup as your mustang. Swap out the cam, distributor and valve springs, oil pump, new gaskets, rear main seal, maybe a new water pump and bearings and there you go.

 

[6ScubA9]

They came in the 1993 Cobra, Ford Lightning, and many ford trucks.

Go to any junkyard and find a 93-97 Explorer motor. It has the GT40 top end on it with the same EGR setup as your mustang. Swap out the cam, distributor and valve springs, oil pump, new gaskets, rear main seal, maybe a new water pump and bearings and there you go.

Hp? Avg cost?

 

[6ScubA9]

The problem with pick-a-part is I don't know what to look for. Whether the part is useable or will cost more than it's worth to repair.

 

[mikestang63]

Hp? Avg cost?

this has yielded anywhere from 260-300 rwhp for many people. cost usually under a grand.

The problem with pick-a-part is I don't know what to look for. Whether the part is useable or will cost more than it's worth to repair.

If you don't know what to look for, bring someone who does. Maybe bring a battery and see if the motor turns over in the car and do a compression test first. Pull a valve cover. check the oil, coolant, etc. You want to look for any 93-97 V8 Explorer or Mountaineer. Those motors are low rpm, towing vehicles driven by soccer moms, not mustang racers so normally they can go 200k miles easy.

If it's too intimidating, look for a reseller of used motors who warranties them. Youll pay more though and then it may not be worth the cost.

 

[A5literMan]

A block like this?: http://treperformance.com/i-133556-ford-331-347-performance-short-block.html
Says it's good for a 10 sec car?

This link is still a stock shortblock and is fine for under 500hp. Just a piece of advise/question? What is your budget? Not a "I want x and only have y $$. No offense ment. Just a question to ask yourself. If you truly have 10-15k for a build or only 3-7k it should answer what you should build. If you don't have the expierience/skills it's understandable. If you don't want to use the junkyard explorer setup or know how to DIY I recommend trying to find a local "race" shop/mechanic that could do all the work for you. You could rebuild your own engine with a good h/c/I and have a nice streetable setup that can hang with most new camaros,mustangs,etc. I recommend using a pro no matter which direction you go for the engine.

 

[6ScubA9]

this has yielded anywhere from 260-300 rwhp for many people. cost usually under a grand.

If you don't know what to look for, bring someone who does. Maybe bring a battery and see if the motor turns over in the car and do a compression test first. Pull a valve cover. check the oil, coolant, etc. You want to look for any 93-97 V8 Explorer or Mountaineer. Those motors are low rpm, towing vehicles driven by soccer moms, not mustang racers so normally they can go 200k miles easy.

If it's too intimidating, look for a reseller of used motors who warranties them. Youll pay more though and then it may not be worth the cost.

Sounds cool. Won't hurt the pocket, get a lil more fun and give me time to save up. So I would just need heads and intake? I've got a 70mm tb and CAI. I guess I should also get em cleaned up, maybe some machine work?

 

[6ScubA9]

This link is still a stock shortblock and is fine for under 500hp. Just a piece of advise/question? What is your budget? Not a "I want x and only have y $$. No offense ment. Just a question to ask yourself. If you truly have 10-15k for a build or only 3-7k it should answer what you should build. If you don't have the expierience/skills it's understandable. If you don't want to use the junkyard explorer setup or know how to DIY I recommend trying to find a local "race" shop/mechanic that could do all the work for you. You could rebuild your own engine with a good h/c/I and have a nice streetable setup that can hang with most new camaros,mustangs,etc. I recommend using a pro no matter which direction you go for the engine.

My budget will be 10-15k in 2 yrs saving. I don't have the mechanical knowledge, and so here we are. A guy I work with is pretty knowledgable (very in fact) but our schedules conflict to get together on anything. This why I'm seeking advice here. Like I said everything I've searched never seems to answer the question. The thread always gets off topic within the first five posts. You guys have been way more helpful! And when I get closer to $$ goals I'll call woody or somebody and get the technical questions answered. I've only had my baby for a couple months and boy am I looking forward to the future. Now I gotta figure out if I want to fix up mine or wait for a nice roller to come along to slap this awesome new powerhouse in. Again, thanks for all the advice. My car needs work, so I'm sure I'll be hearing from you guys more.

 

[mikestang63]

Sounds cool. Won't hurt the pocket, get a lil more fun and give me time to save up. So I would just need heads and intake? I've got a 70mm tb and CAI. I guess I should also get em cleaned up, maybe some machine work?

Depends on the condition of your existing motor and how many miles on it. If it has good compression, no leaks, and the miles are decent, take the top end off the explorer- intake and heads. You can reuse your stock RR and pushrods if on a budget but if you are changing cams you need to check for proper pushrod length. Buy new ARP head bolts. If not, for around $250 you can buy the entire explorer motor, swap over what you need from your existing motor, as mentioned before change out some new parts- cam, valve springs, gaskets, rear main seal,water and oil pump,and let er rip.

You'll spend about 3-400 when its all said and done on the heads after new springs, machining,. Have the intake hot tanked and you can open up the intake to 70MM with a dremel. While you are at the J/Y, look for a 94-95 mustang mass air flow meter. They are 70mm vs 58mm on yours and they are about $30. All you need is a $15 adapter plate soold on Ebay so it bolts into your intake tube.

If you do a search you will see this has been done 100's of times. Look for the correct gasket set.

 

[2000xp8]

I've read through most of this post and i think 10 second power is a little too ambitious for a starting point with your skill, knowledge and budget. The terminology "save up", is a scary thought. You save up for you next project, not your current one IMO.

Get a mild setup up and running and go from there.

Didn't see where you said what is wrong with your current engine, does it run? Burn oil? If not, do a h/c/i swap and drive it as for now.
If it's not fine, buy an explorer engine and change the cam, springs and run that as is for now. Or if you have more money, sell the explorer heads and intake and put together an aluminum headed top end.

Then while the car runs and drives and you get used to it, build a better shortblock on the side.

You have to grow with your car. Learning to work on and drive it is important. Goes a long way in preventing the need to have a tow truck pull it out of a ditch.

300rwhp is a decent amount of power in a car this light and torquey.
And let's not forget 10 second power requires a 10 second transmission, 10 second rear, 10 second fuel system.
The build you wish to have sounds like another 20 grand before it's completely setup.

 

[Noobz347]

I skimmed through this thread also. I had a different thought occur:

Find yourself a good seasoned stock block and build it up right. 500 HP is nice to say but it doesn't mean anything. Most people haven't got any idea what 500 Hp will or won't do. Most haven't any idea what 400 HP will or won't do.

I see well setup and proven 350+ HP cars eat up supposed 500 HP cars like they were standing in a puddle with their finger in a light socket.

If you're concerned about the cost of making 500 HP then you should be concerned about the cost the chassis and suspension mods necessary to put it all to the ground.

Without them, your 500 HP will take you all the way to the scene of the accident.

XP8 and I don't agree on much, but this is one subject that we usually align.

If you put together a GREAT and STREETABLE 350+ HP, I guarantee you that it will be enough to make you, and anyone riding with you, poop their shorts with the right suspension.

 

[2000xp8]

XP8 and I don't agree on much, but this is one subject that we usually align.

In reality it's mainly one topic we don't agree on and we know what that is...

 

[6ScubA9]

While I appreciate the input I think I said I want 350 rwhp and a setup that can handle tc/sc once I get my feet wet, ie learn how to handle car. Will 2k cover suspension? I've already figured that in. Will a 31 spline rear end handle my needs or is there something else I need done? Can a t5 handle 500+? I've seen they use it in a coyote swaps and seen it on other high hp cars? A 600 is like 600 bucks more.

Anyway the main point to be answered here was after block and HCI selection, what additional motor costs are there and how much would it cost to have built motor put in? Let's stay on track so this doesn't turn into every other thread.

 

[2000xp8]

While I appreciate the input I think I said I want 350 rwhp and a setup that can handle tc/sc once I get my feet wet, ie learn how to handle car. Will 2k cover suspension? I've already figured that in. Will a 31 spline rear end handle my needs or is there something else I need done? Can a t5 handle 500+? I've seen they use it in a coyote swaps and seen it on other high hp cars? A 600 is like 600 bucks more.

Anyway the main point to be answered here was after block and HCI selection, what additional motor costs are there and how much would it cost to have built motor put in? Let's stay on track so this doesn't turn into every other thread.

2k suspension? Probably not if you include brakes, wheels, tires in that. (since 5 lug is the wise choice).
Not sure anyone uses a t5 transmissions with a coyote swap, maybe tko 500? That's about a 3 grand swap. Although i'd buy the tko600.
31 spline rear is fine, which should cost about $1500.

350rwhp is an oddball spot in hp.
It's possible but tough to get that much with a 302.
If you use a 347 and come up with 350rwhp you probably didn't use the right parts, i'd consider 400rwhp a NA goal for a 347.
IMO, shoot for 275-325rwhp with the 302 or 400rwhp with a 347. Either way, head choice will be what decides the number you get.

 

[6ScubA9]

Still of topic and not answering main question. But I'm not including 5 lug swap bc I'm still not sure about it. From what I understand 5 lug would be purely cosmetic since something else will break before a lug. Plus a complete swap is 2500 plus tire and wheel selection (really want those fr500!). So in a swap a trac lok diff is 250, is that all that's required?(along with 31 spline axle). In suspension cost all I'm figuring in is maybe a k member, coil over front a arms etc. like an MM sport package that includes subframe connectors. Should do right? Right now I'm thinking I'll pretty up my ride and buy something a little further along with nice interior and solid paint.

To get back on topic, what would you say are some final costs to building an engine and how much for a shop to put it in and tune it? Thanks

 

[mikestang63]

Still of topic and not answering main question. But I'm not including 5 lug swap bc I'm still not sure about it. From what I understand 5 lug would be purely cosmetic since something else will break before a lug. Plus a complete swap is 2500 plus tire and wheel selection (really want those fr500!). So in a swap a trac lok diff is 250, is that all that's required?(along with 31 spline axle). In suspension cost all I'm figuring in is maybe a k member, coil over front a arms etc. like an MM sport package that includes subframe connectors. Should do right? Right now I'm thinking I'll pretty up my ride and buy something a little further along with nice interior and solid paint.

To get back on topic, what would you say are some final costs to building an engine and how much for a shop to put it in and tune it? Thanks

No offense, but you are all over the place. What is your goal and what is your budget.

If you do not have subframe connectors, that needs to be installed before you do any performance mods IMO. The stock Fox body twists like a pretzel from the factory. Once you start adding HP it is will only get worse. MM sells the best ones on the market. If you want to stay with 4 lug and want to improve your braking, again MM sells a great upgrade kit that has SS brake hoses. SS caliper bushings, and upgraded pads and brakes. If you want to do the suspension in one shot, but the grip in a box from MM and you're done. They are having daily specials on their parts in December.

For a DD, an aftermarket K member is a waste of money. Spend your money elswhwere.

 

[2000xp8]

To get back on topic, what would you say are some final costs to building an engine and how much for a shop to put it in and tune it? Thanks

Just too many variables to figure out at this point.
Shop rates can differ by thousands so can your final choice in parts.

 

[6ScubA9]

All over the place? Back to my first post I wanted to know what parts other than block and HCI would be needed for a build and how much I might have to pay to have a motor built and put in my car. Nothing about what suspension would cost, only what you would upgrade. Nothing about making 500 hp. I can't make a budget without figuring in what labor might cost. It's the beginning of a plan, so I'm not worried about technical parts and all the manufacturers. Any clearer?

 

[2000xp8]

All over the place? Back to my first post I wanted to know what parts other than block and HCI would be needed for a build and how much I might have to pay to have a motor built and put in my car. Nothing about what suspension would cost, only what you would upgrade. Nothing about making 500 hp. I can't make a budget without figuring in what labor might cost. It's the beginning of a plan, so I'm not worried about technical parts and all the manufacturers. Any clearer?

I partially mixed you up with the other guy that wanted to run 10's when you asked about the engines capable of tens, then talked about splitting blocks.

Regardless it's still tough to figure what you have and need to do and how much.

Try this.
List all the aftermarket parts you currently have.
Current condition of the car, engine and trans at least.
And how much you either have or would like to spend.

Alot goes into a setup, for example:
Exhaust?
Injectors?
Meter?
New clutch? (most mechanics will convince you to get a new clutch, flywheel, bearing during an engine change)
What's useable on your engine now? Does the new engine have to be turn key? (meaning drop it in, wire it up and it runs)

Without all this info, we will have no idea what you are going to spend. And even after that labor rates will be all over the place.