347 into our Cars??????

The Red Monster · May 3, 2006

Hey, during the summer i want to buy a 347 short block from Coast, or do you guys think a 306??? and put some AFR heads, or the whole Trick Flow Street Kit(Heads,Cam,Intake etc.)
What kind of numbers would i be lookin at ????
What would you go with????

And would my car need a new Ecu????? Alot of tuning or can i pretty much get it tuned at a shop, and be happy!!!!!!!!

o sorry for all the questions but i wanna do this and be able to run daily driver??? possible????

any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thnx,
Conrad

fiveo'cobra · May 3, 2006

Yes a 347 can easily be made a daily driver, but if you want a reliable daily, a 331 is a wiser choice because the rod angle isn't as severe is in a 347 so 331's are known to last longer and be more reliable day to day engines. Plus they rev higher which is nice. But i have a friend who has put 3 years use of daily driving on his 347 notch so i dunno. If you're going to buy a stroker kit, you might as well do a 331 or 347. A 306 won't do you much good unless you're planning on making it a 12:1 compression competition spec, high revving nitrous car; those run VERY fast. For a 306, all you'd have to do is get your block bored and run 0.30 over pistons and bam you're done; no stroker kit necessary.
As far as what accomodations you should run with a 331/347, the trickflow street heat kit would work but flows wayyyy too little for displacement you're going to have unless you get those heads MASSIVELY ported. You're going to want to run either AFR 185's or 205's if you really want some power, Holley, Canfield, etc heads; something with 2.02 intake valves and an average of 205cc intake flow. The cam in the trickflow kit is also wayyy too tiny. It has like .498 lift on intake and exhaust with 1.6 rockers. You're going to want something around .600 for serious power, around .540 for a very mild street trim setup, and anywhere in between that for a compromise of both. Intake wise, you're going to need a Holley Systmax II or trickflow R series.
Yes you can get the car tuned at any dyno shop. Doesn't need anything special. Just a custom burned chip with your stock ECU will work fine.
Its really hard to determine what power you'd be making with a 331/347 because they really do have potential up to 550whp N/A. If you went with a mild street setup, you'd be at around 350whp, and if you chose aggressive heads with a cam close to .600 lift, you'd be at around 400whp.

Grn92LX · May 3, 2006

fiveo'cobra said:
Yes a 347 can easily be made a daily driver, but if you want a reliable daily, a 331 is a wiser choice because the rod angle isn't as severe is in a 347 so 331's are known to last longer and be more reliable day to day engines. Plus they rev higher which is nice.

You really have no idea, do you?

No, a 331 will NOT rev higher. No, a 331 is NOT more reliable. Your induction package and your valvetrain determine how high you can rev.

If you're going to build a stroker, go 347. The assemblies cost the SAME.

Heres a nice package that'll work great for you: AFR 185's, holley manifold, custom cam and valve springs, 1 3/4" headers, 3" mid pipe. It does not take much aggressive stuff to make 400rwhp n/a in a pump gas 347.

Nagash01WS6 · May 3, 2006

fiveo'cobra said:
, a 331 is a wiser choice because the rod angle isn't as severe is in a 347 so 331's are known to last longer and be more reliable day to day engines.

Ever done the math to see the difference in rod angle?

We arent talking a degree between the two.

Max Angle between the piston and rod in a 347 is 18.34 degrees.
Max Angle between the piston and rod in a 331 is 17.51 degrees.

The SEVERE angle difference between the two is, oh, not even one full degree, but .85 of a degree.

Max angle between the rod and the crankshaft in a 347 is 71.65 degrees.
Max angle between the rod and the crankshaft in a 331 is (gasp) 72.5 degrees.

OMG... the 331 has a greater angle between the crank and the rod!!!! By not even a whole degree... all of .85 degrees, AGAIN!!!!!!

WHAT??? .85 twice????

Basic triangles. Sum of all angles = 180. If one is diff by .85, the other will be by .85.

Do you really think .85 degrees will have any effect on the engine?

All these angles are going to be when the crank has moved 90 degrees from TDC, same angles at 270 degrees from TDC as measured by the crankshaft movement.

mred03gt · May 3, 2006

If I was going to my engine change again. I would go with the 306 and blower. The cost of a stroker and tuning are just not worth it. Even a stock 4.6 with 6lbs of boost is blowing my doors off for less money. I put in a 342 this off season and my buddy put in a 331. We are both dissapointed with the performance. Just my 2cents.

Nagash01WS6 · May 3, 2006

Why did you put 302 parts on a 342? I would have stepped up to at least an AFR 185 on that motor.

That motor isnt getting enough air, and you are getting poor performance out of it.

Killercanary · May 3, 2006

I'd opt for the 347 too if I were you. Why give up the cubes?

mred03gt · May 3, 2006

My heads are almost same as 185's. There is no CNC, but mine are twisted. They also flow better than 185's up to 5800 and that is where I run my car. My buddy runs 185's on his 331 with an RPM II and goes to 6200 and is not any faster. He was asking about displacement and I know a lot of people doing better with 306's. The parts are cheaper and they sound better too.

Killercanary · May 3, 2006

mred03gt said:
My heads are almost same as 185's. There is no CNC, but mine are twisted. They also flow better than 185's up to 5800 and that is where I run my car. My buddy runs 185's on his 331 with an RPM II and goes to 6200 and is not any faster. He was asking about displacement and I know a lot of people doing better with 306's. The parts are cheaper and they sound better too.

What??? Are you serious?

Nagash01WS6 · May 3, 2006

If they are doing better with a 306, that means they arent using the right parts on a motor with bigger cubes.

If you build a 331/347 with a 302 in mind, its gonna run like a 302, if not worse.

95snoozer · May 3, 2006

mred03gt said:
If I was going to my engine change again. I would go with the 306 and blower. The cost of a stroker and tuning are just not worth it. Even a stock 4.6 with 6lbs of boost is blowing my doors off for less money. I put in a 342 this off season and my buddy put in a 331. We are both dissapointed with the performance. Just my 2cents.

it is not the motors fault yall cant create a good combination

dont blame it on the 347

mred03gt · May 3, 2006

I did not say it was the engine's fault. I just said, if I was doing it again, I would go with the smaller displacement. That was the question he asked. Yes, I was serious about my heads. They have same size valves and combustion chamber, unless you opted for the AFR's with the 59cc chamber. No, they are not exactly the same, but for the money the difference was not worth it. It was just an opinion.

95snoozer · May 3, 2006

seeing as my friends with 185s and 347s with OTS comp cams trap 117+, I'd say there is a hitch in yorusetup somewhere

one makes 404/400 now but there are no new times out of it.

I dont know about you, but i trap 109-110 with 294 hp... i hope i could beat a 4.6 on 6psi with 380-400 hp

I didnt attack your heads, i said COMBO

cam/intake/heads/headers/tune

95snoozer · May 3, 2006

Scott,
1994 Mustang GT
342 with TFS Track Heat Kit
70mm TB, 76mm C&L, 30# Injectors, MSD Ignition,
AODE, Steeda Upper and Lower Control Arms, Aluminum Driveshaft, 31 spline axles, Auburn Pro Diff and 410's

your intake sucks,
your cam, which i assume is a TFS is less than desireable
i see no mention of the exhaust
I see no mention of 3k+ stall converter

just from looking at your sig, your car looks Unfinished

final5-0 · May 3, 2006

mred03gt said:
If I was going to my engine change again. I would go with the 306 and blower. The cost of a stroker and tuning are just not worth it.

Hey Scott

Are you saying if you had a 306, you would not need a tune

And about the blown 306

Seems the blower on the 306 would all the more necessitate tuning

Grady

fiveo'cobra · May 3, 2006

Nagash01WS6 said:
Ever done the math to see the difference in rod angle?

We arent talking a degree between the two.

Max Angle between the piston and rod in a 347 is 18.34 degrees.
Max Angle between the piston and rod in a 331 is 17.51 degrees.

The SEVERE angle difference between the two is, oh, not even one full degree, but .85 of a degree.

Max angle between the rod and the crankshaft in a 347 is 71.65 degrees.
Max angle between the rod and the crankshaft in a 331 is (gasp) 72.5 degrees.

OMG... the 331 has a greater angle between the crank and the rod!!!! By not even a whole degree... all of .85 degrees, AGAIN!!!!!!

WHAT??? .85 twice????

Basic triangles. Sum of all angles = 180. If one is diff by .85, the other will be by .85.

Do you really think .85 degrees will have any effect on the engine?

All these angles are going to be when the crank has moved 90 degrees from TDC, same angles at 270 degrees from TDC as measured by the crankshaft movement.

Calm dowwwwwwn sparky. You talk from math, i talk from experience. How many people do you really KNOW that have 331's? I have 3. How bout 347's. I have more than 4 and one of them has TWO. Angle isn't much of a difference, but it is there none the less.

And 92lx, i hope you're kidding when you say your valvetrain and induction package are the ONLY things that determine how high you can rev.

95Mustang302 · May 3, 2006

go big or go home

Nagash01WS6 · May 3, 2006

95Mustang302 said:
go big or go home

What a fine pearl of wisdom!

All I was saying... if you are worrying about a degree of rod angle, or your stroke to rod ratio... stick with a 302.

We'll see ya back in the pits.

Killercanary · May 3, 2006

I watched a buddy of mine go 11.2 at 122mph this weekend with a 331 in a fox hatch. It has a TFS bos R intake, TW 205 heads, a comp 274 (I think) cam, and he was hitting the rev limiter right before the finish line at 6900rpms (he has an extender). Its a well thought out combo that EASILY has more in it. he's switching to a 90mm TB and a few other little tricks.
I somehow doubt it'd be that fast with a 306.

95snoozer · May 3, 2006

when they tested the box r with the TW 185s on a low comp 331 it was worth 12 hp going from a 75 to the 90 that the box is suposed to run

I am still tossing around the idea of whether to do the box on my 347. I think i am going to stick with the holley but i would like to try the box out for sh its and giggles

that cams seems small for revving that high, does he have it retarded? the 282 might be a ncie addition too.

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