Engine 351w 408 Stroker Build

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wel,l you will have to ask him because i can't speak for him or others in this regard but my guess is that it is because they are cheap and readily available and still "works", but again, would they prefer it was stronger, i think that's a no brainer. would they prefer it be a boss or dart block? i certainly hope so.

also since it is a stress crack and is occuring on stock blocks, i think it is obvious it is not going to be peoples first choice if there was something better for a comparable price avail.

take another member here saying that i should not suggest 4 bolts for a 600 hp build because they op is trying to build a "budget" 600 hp build...ok, this particular op is not going to spend the money on a really high quality block. no ine can make him.

if by early blocks you mean the ones the other guy here referred to, well good luck dinding one and when ya do it probably ain't gonna be 100.00 and if irs a 69 or 70 its worth around 800.00 where i am.


ok now lets say a person or their loved one needs a new heart valve and the dr says, well we have one thats been PROVEN to be durable for x amount of dollars that we know you can run a marathon with and we have one that is obviously marginal for a lot less that we know you can walk around with but i wouldn't recommend doing any exercise or skiing or hiking etc., and there is no guarantee on it, which one do ya want?
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ok heres a question for ya. below is just 1 of trickflows trackmaster cams. it is relatively moderate in size and is advertised to spin only 5500 rpms in a 350 chevy engine with good heads. all the trackmasters are billet steel.

Is billet steel stronger or weaker than iron cams?

Is it more, or less, susceptible to harmonics than iron cams?

It is a fact that there are dozens of cams from other mfgs that are FAR "bigger" than this that are iron.

Why?

Is trick flow stupid?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51403001
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i really dont know if i want to feed the troll like this, but i think theres a few points that need to be brought up (or really, just clarified) here.

1) the factory 351w have been proven at the 600-700hp (and more) level that the op is looking for for decades. we arent talking about a 302 here that will break with a sneeze. obviously if you want to make 800+ or spin insane rpms (or just want the extra 1/8" of bore for a 427), then yes a dart block is a much easier decision.

2) the earlier blocks ARE better than the late-model roller blocks (thicker webs, possibly better material).

3) there is NO factory 4-bolt 351w, and modding one to 4-bolt will probably weaken it rather than help it

4) all a main girdle will do is keep the parts together AFTER it splits down the middle, they dont do much in the stability department.

5) non-roller blocks should tend to be more available than the roller ones (the later was only made for 3-4 years, non-rollers for decades), should not be a huge difference in price unless you're looking for a specific year range (which can make a strength difference, but not one big enough to really pick one over the other unless going for absolute max power, which a dart makes more sense for anyway)

6) the best explanation ive heard for the roller "stress crack" mentioned is most likely because of poor maintenance and overheating in the environment in which those motors operated (ALL roller blocks come from trucks and vans, probably most of which have been beaten on by company drivers for 200k+miles in 3/4 and 1-ton trucks, most 1/2 tons will have the 300 or 302). that said, a non-roller block is still probably a better choice for a 408.

7) unless tfs changed manufacturers AGAIN (i believe crane used to make their cams until they went under a few years ago) those cams are NOT billet, they are cast. the earlier ones (and if they changed suppliers again, maybe the new ones) are fully machined, the later ones are more cheaply made and you'll see the as-cast finish between lobes (and yes, i have both, theres even an old thread on here about it).

8) a 408 (or if you end up with a dart block, go 427) will be PLENTY "torquey," thats still a whole lotta cubes with a fairly long crank throw, and provided he feeds it right, should make power just about everywhere. heads in the 200cc class (tfs 11r 205, afr 205 or 225, hell if you have the coin some high port 240s would be awesome), a super-vic intake, and a good custom cam should get you there without even being really "exotic" these days.

Spot on advice right there ^^^

^^^^Exactly!! Haven't been on for awhile and this thread sure took an ugly turn. Oh well hopefully the op and anyone else reading learned something constructive.

barnett468 said:

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FYI -Below is a photo of a crack that is too frequently found on original, untouched, BOX STOCK stock 210 hp 351 roller engines...but hey, its fine for a measly 600 hp application.
http://i.imgur.com/qODEh.jpg

Any more questions?
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TOOLOW91 said:

Correct and yet as long as they pass inspection Woody still uses them .......... IIRC that's an F4TE roller block

So that tells me what ? No one has been able to determine why the crack occurs yet someone as well known as Ford Strokers still uses the blocks as long as it isn't present . Many real world people making good horsepower on them , so again what are we getting at here besides this being a ****ing contest of who knows more or less ?

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That is a crack on the number 2 or number 4 cam bearing journal. We see this a bit, i dont think hp has anything to do with it. I believe its the environment these engines may live in. Trucks, vans, buses with little maintenance, chronic overheating etc.. I have never seen one with bigger cracks or any cracks that have run.

Wonderbread750 said:

Ok lets try this, your building a motor to put everything in your rearview mirror, how would you build your 408?

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To try an get back on track I would stick with a roller block, factory. Do your 408 stroke, etc. I think you'd be safe with 28oz. external balanced SCAT crank, I beam rods, forged pistons, & Trick Flow/AFR Heads in the 190-ish range. Honestly though it's hard to suggest parts when you aren't sure if you're going to add a power adder later. Seems like it'd be right on the fence (limits of the block). If you want to run boost, then the setup would change and every part you buy for a n/a 408w would need to be upgraded as well as the block. Sorry if I'm rambling.