351W swap questions

[2002BLGT]

Can a stock balancer off of a 93-95 lightning work ? and what OE application can we get some fuel rails for , are the 88-95 F150 5.8 EFI fuel rails compatible ? if not where can some affordable aftermarket ones be had ? I have found out that the stock timing cover will work but what about the oil pan ? can you use the 302 pan or do you have to get one for a 351 and if so what OE one would work? can the block be drilled and tapped to hold an OE 302 roller cam tray instead of paying 300+ dollars for the retrofit lifters from crane , I know its gonna need the bracket for the PS , I am sure some more questions will come to me later but thanks in advance guys , hopefully some of you have had some experience with this??

heres the plan for the engine so far incase anybody cares to know
351 edelbrock EFI intake
performer 5.0 heads with 2.02 valves
trick flow stage 2 cam (0.542 int./0.563 exh. lift) (286 int./294 exh. duration)
TRW flat top 30 over lightweight pistons
eagle I beams and stock crank
30 lbs injectors and matching calibrated mass air .....

 

[pb_paulie_b]

it depends on what imbalance your crank is. your better off with any link bar hyd. roller lifter than drilling and tapping. mine are from cat and cost $140...PB

 

[MatthewP]

Can a stock balancer off of a 93-95 lightning work ?

Probably, but you should probably think about an SFI balancer like the Powerbond.

what OE application can we get some fuel rails for , are the 88-95 F150 5.8 EFI fuel rails compatible ? if not where can some affordable aftermarket ones be had ?

Take a set of 5.0 fuel rails and cut the hoses connecting the two sides off, then widen them using fuel injection rubber fuel hose.

what about the oil pan ? can you use the 302 pan or do you have to get one for a 351 and if so what OE one would work?

You need a 351W oil pan. You can use one from an early eighties 351W Crown Vic or Marquis, as long as you don't also run a girdle on the block.

can the block be drilled and tapped to hold an OE 302 roller cam tray instead of paying 300+ dollars for the retrofit lifters from crane

As far as I know this is possible, but you are probably better off to follow paulie's advice, or go with a solid roller cam and link bar solid roller lifters.

heres the plan for the engine so far incase anybody cares to know
351 edelbrock EFI intake
performer 5.0 heads with 2.02 valves
trick flow stage 2 cam (0.542 int./0.563 exh. lift) (286 int./294 exh. duration)
TRW flat top 30 over lightweight pistons
eagle I beams and stock crank
30 lbs injectors and matching calibrated mass air .....

Everyone has an opinion, but I would suggest bigger heads. Ported TFS Track Heat or AFR 185 as a minimum. I'd sooner put on AFR 205 or TFS-R heads if it was mine. Also, I would suggest a bigger cam. Your head and cam choices are better suited to a 302, in my opinion, and will probably make your motor run more like a 302.

Good luck with the project.

-Matthew

 

[vristang]

Can a stock balancer off of a 93-95 lightning work ? and what OE application can we get some fuel rails for , are the 88-95 F150 5.8 EFI fuel rails compatible ? if not where can some affordable aftermarket ones be had ? I have found out that the stock timing cover will work but what about the oil pan ? can you use the 302 pan or do you have to get one for a 351 and if so what OE one would work? can the block be drilled and tapped to hold an OE 302 roller cam tray instead of paying 300+ dollars for the retrofit lifters from crane , I know its gonna need the bracket for the PS , I am sure some more questions will come to me later but thanks in advance guys , hopefully some of you have had some experience with this??

heres the plan for the engine so far incase anybody cares to know
351 edelbrock EFI intake
performer 5.0 heads with 2.02 valves
trick flow stage 2 cam (0.542 int./0.563 exh. lift) (286 int./294 exh. duration)
TRW flat top 30 over lightweight pistons
eagle I beams and stock crank
30 lbs injectors and matching calibrated mass air .....

The balancer that you use will depend upon the rotating assy. you find. Some flywheels can be rebalanced for about $80. I would buy a new balancer, since used ones can be fairly sketchy.
I used the stock 302 fuel rails, but had to splice in high pressure fuel line in the front and back, due to the wider block. Make sure you get high pressure line, and make sure it does not ride on anything! If you want to use truck rails just be sure to do a mock up before making any commitments, some rails have the regulator in different places, and other small changes.
The pans are not interchangeable as the 351 pan rails are wider than the 302. The motorsport unit is supposed to be the most economical for new units. Aftermarket is a little more pricey.
You can drill and tap the block for the spider and lifters. There is some grinding that will need to be done for dog bone clearance, and the drilling will be into the cam journals. These are not serious issues as long as you perform these steps after removing the cam, and before the engine is tanked and prepped for assy.

That cam has a very similar duration, but more lift than my cam. I am very happy with it. I have insane power over 4000rpm and get decent economy when cruising. I would suggest staying with something similar (given a 112-114 lsa), especially if this will be adaily driver or have to pass emissions.

If you already have the Ebrocks they will do just fine. I actually ran stock 302 heads on the 351w for a while. Not near as much power, but still held their own.

Feel free to contact me if you have other question
jason

 

[gojonnygo]

dont forget that you will need at least a 4'' cowl hood unless you use drop motor mounts which can cause issuses with headers. good luck. im in the same process, just awaiting my new motor to be pulled from the donor vehicle.

 

[9 Deuce GT]

Deff. go with the link bar lifter. Extremely nice pieces. I have a set and I am going to run them in my 351w build. I am very impressed with the quality. Also, to run the stock 302 rollers, you need to get a special reduced base circle cam. A real pain if you ask me. Some custom cam builders wont even help you with these setups. With the link bars, you can run any off the shelf cam, (not that you need to, any custom would be better). But it's possible.

 

[macx]

I've got a 95 Lightning motor, so obviously am using that damper Got the Ford 351 swap pan off ebay w/pickup for $100 (3 yrs ago), also swap shorty headers. Widened my stock 302 fuel rails like above w/hi pressure efi specific hose. Also use the efi specific hose clamps - rolled edges to avoid cutting into the hose. NAPA & I'm sure others have them. The stock rails are reportedly good up to about hi 300's horsepower fuel delivery. For mounts, use stock Stang vert mounts - stronger and lower. I got my efi 351 (just barely) under my stock Lincoln hood.

You can see in my sig that I purposely built it mild for decent fuel economy, which I hit, and low/mid range torque. I've got the 1.9 ebrock's which I've read only flow about 5% less than the 2.02s. Bought all major parts used, saved about %40. $600 for the heads w/lo miles. Get a light truck 351 efi distrib, then you have to put the yellow stripe Ford gear on it - unless you're really well setup in your shop, take it to a good auto machine shop. Has to be pressed off/on, and gear set at right height. REAL tough to drill that gear & shaft straight even w/a drill press (drill is tiny, flexes). Get a distrib from a truck that has the remote mount tfi module, and get the connecting harness. Keeps heat away from the module which is the main failure reason. To widen the air injection tube (if you keep it) behind the heads, cut it the straight section & slip on about 4 to 6" of hi temp 3/4" silicone heater hose. Oh - do NOT get JBA shorty 351 swap headers - don't fit the H pipe worth crap!! Look at this link to see how I got my upper rad hose to go around behind/outside of the alternator (couldn't close the hood cuz the alt sits higher w/351.

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article93.html

Basically cut the rad end off of a good hose, joined w/short piece of exhaust pipe.

Good luck! I LOVE my extra torque, and now I can eventually go 393.

 

[2002BLGT]

thanks guys , the engine is coming out of a crown vic so I guess I can use that pan then , and I can get some fuel injection hose to extend the rails but was hoping for a bolt in and go set up but from what you guys have told me doesnt sound like extending them will be that hard ......as for the combo , I am trying to match parts to build power under the curve as well as have some peak pull ...hense the cam and head , I am 99 percent sure these are the heads that are going to be chosen because of price , getting them for about $980 complete .....but the cam combo is not dead set yet .....I just like the price of the trickflow compared to others , but if anyone can advise on a better cam I am open to suggestions

 

[pb_paulie_b]

my tri-pro's were $798 they are aluminum, 2.05/1.60 valves...PB

 

[DemonGT]

why the hell would he need a four inch hood??

 

[vristang]

dont forget that you will need at least a 4'' cowl hood unless you use drop motor mounts which can cause issuses with headers. good luck. im in the same process, just awaiting my new motor to be pulled from the donor vehicle.

Not exactly, there are other options.

The lowering mounts usually will not allow larger volume aftermarket oil pans, but do help with hood clearance. The header clearance and oil pan clearance will improve with the addition of a tubular k-member. A 4" is not necessary (although it does look very aggressive) as the block is only about 1"-1.5" taller (if I remember correctly). You can also lower the intake manifold. I trimmed about .750" from my upper comp cam box intake. The intake rubs very slightly on the under hood mat, but clears the stock hood. Long tube intakes will be more difficult to do this with, but most I have seen will have adequate clearance between the VC and manifold. A decent fabrication shop should be able to cut 3/4" from the upper intake and weld it back together fairly cheap. Yet another option is to trim away some of the bracing on the underside of the stock hood.

I am not saying that the cowl hood is wrong, in fact it will work quite well. Just saying that there are other options.

HEY MODERATOR - WHERE DID THE SWAP STICKY GO?

 

[vristang]

You can see in my sig that I purposely built it mild for decent fuel economy, which I hit, and low/mid range torque. .

Out of curiosity what kind of economy are you getting?

 

[vristang]

Deff. go with the link bar lifter. Extremely nice pieces. I have a set and I am going to run them in my 351w build. I am very impressed with the quality. Also, to run the stock 302 rollers, you need to get a special reduced base circle cam. A real pain if you ask me. Some custom cam builders wont even help you with these setups. With the link bars, you can run any off the shelf cam, (not that you need to, any custom would be better). But it's possible.

The "special cam" is just a standard 302 roller cam. Nothing special. I had no trouble running my off the shelf cam (comp cam for a 302 roller) with stock 302 rollers/dogbones/spider in a 80s 351w block. I just needed longer push rods. Ran that for about a year, until I built the 408w.
I am not trying to say that the bar lifters are junk. But the only difference I can see, that would matter, would be internal (if there are internal differences).
just my thoughts
jason

 

[vristang]

thanks guys , the engine is coming out of a crown vic so I guess I can use that pan then , and I can get some fuel injection hose to extend the rails but was hoping for a bolt in and go set up but from what you guys have told me doesnt sound like extending them will be that hard ......as for the combo , I am trying to match parts to build power under the curve as well as have some peak pull ...hense the cam and head , I am 99 percent sure these are the heads that are going to be chosen because of price , getting them for about $980 complete .....but the cam combo is not dead set yet .....I just like the price of the trickflow compared to others , but if anyone can advise on a better cam I am open to suggestions

I just asked google for the stage 2 specs. Assuming I found the right one I think it looks decent. You could run more duration (probably into the mid 230s), if you opened up the lsa to 112 to 114. Opening the lsa higher will keep overlap to a managable level, especially true with stroker windsors. If the price is within budget you can have just about any cam you can dream up, made by most major cam grinders. My custom cam was 320 from Comp Cam, delivered in about a weak. Reasonable in my opinion, but off the shelf is less expensive.

just my thoughts.
jason

 

[DemonGT]

oops i guess in a thread like this one my sig would of help some

 

[gojonnygo]

yea there are other options. im in no way a pro at this i just state what i learned in here and in other forums. the k member is a great way to go but can get a little pricey. a nice hood can be had for around 200 plus shipping and 75-100 for paint. plus as said above looks aggressive unless your going for the sleeper look. and its easier to install than a k member.

 

[DemonGT]

a 2 1/2 hood should be plenty for most EFI upper intakes, I do know the TFS box upper intake requires a 4" hood and possibly some larger carborated air filters, but for the most part you can get away with a 2 1/2 inch hood with the most common intakes. (TFS-R, and Edelbrock)

 

[2002BLGT]

car already has a tubular K member in it and its getting a 5 inch cowl hood that comes all the way back to the windshield ......DemonGT , nice setup , what cam specs are you running , have any dyno numbers or track times?

 

[9 Deuce GT]

The "special cam" is just a standard 302 roller cam. Nothing special. I had no trouble running my off the shelf cam (comp cam for a 302 roller) with stock 302 rollers/dogbones/spider in a 80s 351w block. I just needed longer push rods. Ran that for about a year, until I built the 408w.
I am not trying to say that the bar lifters are junk. But the only difference I can see, that would matter, would be internal (if there are internal differences).
just my thoughts
jason

Not trying to be a dick, but were you using a standard off the shelf cam with the dog bones? I ask because the lifter bores are shorter on a non roller block vs. a roller block. I would not feel comfortable with this, as many cam grinders have suggested this could result in the lifter actually coming out of the bore. I don't know about you, but that would not be something fun for me.

 

[vristang]

Not trying to be a dick, but were you using a standard off the shelf cam with the dog bones? I ask because the lifter bores are shorter on a non roller block vs. a roller block. I would not feel comfortable with this, as many cam grinders have suggested this could result in the lifter actually coming out of the bore. I don't know about you, but that would not be something fun for me.

No offense taken. Just trying to figure out where the confusion/mis-communication is.

I was using an early 80s 351w block. Stock roller lifters from the 90 stang. I can't remember the part number of the cam, but it was a standard 302 grind. I did crank the motor over with all the lifters and dogbones in place just to make sure that the clearances were good. There seemed to be no issues. The lifters never made contact with the dogbones, so I am not sure how there could be a risk of them coming out of the bores.

There are 2 deck heights on the 351w aren't there. Maybe that is the issue?

jason