Who ever said this is a complete idiot. a 302 can only be stroked to a 347, that is wit a .060 bore. 351 is a completely different engine. the 302 is not a 289, the block is longer take a look at a 96-98 mustang you will see about 5-6 inches between the fan and the engine a 94-95 only has about 3-4.mo_dingo said:
mo_dingo said:
I don't know about the heads, but the intake is wider than a 302 being that the engine is wider. The Head bolts are different but you can put a 302 head on a 351 being that the mounting points are the same.
mo_dingo said:
The 302 can be safely stroked to a 347 and bored 60 over without causing a thin cyl wall situation, but it also depends on the motor
mo_dingo said:
http://www.fordclassics.com/enginespecs.html this is very basic
You might want to go to a library and check out a bronco shop manual, they should have the diameters of evey nook and cranny in them of both blocks.
All I can tell you is that they are two different blocks, the 351 has thicker walls, and can be bored out to 400+ ci and that it too is a small block. They made two different 351 engines a cleveland and a windsor, but the windsor is the one that will fit into a mustang engine compartment.
A 302 is an enhanced version of a 289, Ford extended the cylinder bores for better stability. A 351W has the same 4.00" bore that a 302 has, but a 3.50" stroke (as opposed to the 3.00" stroke on a 302). There are different versions of the 351W available with different deck heights, late model production blocks are 9.5". The 302 has a 8.2" deck height. Heads for 302 and 351 are interchangeable, but the head bolt size is different, as you mentioned.mo_dingo said:
347 is typical for the 302, 408 is typical for a production 302. There are some aluminum 351W versions that can be stroked to 454. DART 351's can go to 468.
Dave
96 and new use a SOHC 281 which is completly different but he was talking about the 289 block form older mustangs and it is the same basic block.
also i didn't relized that the dart block could be taken so far...i am only aware for the specs for factory block i haven't delt much with after market blocks
also i didn't relized that the dart block could be taken so far...i am only aware for the specs for factory block i haven't delt much with after market blocks
351W and 302 differences
The 351W is identical to the 302 from about 8.5" up the deck downward. Both are 4" bores but the 351W has a longer stroke and longer deck (longer piston bores). Both are SBFs and will bolt up to the same bell housings, motor mounts, etc. Even the timing chain cover, etc is identical. There are custom 351W engines (www.dartheads.com) with extended deck heights allowing strokers to 468 or so cubic inches. Dart makes a 351W in aluminum or iron with 4 bolt mains and Cleveland crankshaft bore diameters (smaller for more velocity).
There are stroker kits for 302 engines and a common one is 347 cid. This doesn't mean that that engine can be safely stroked to 347 though... it depends on your application. To get 347 out of a 302 there is some grinding away of clearance points on the bottom of the cylinder walls and elsewhere to allow the crank clearance to turn. Also very short skirted pistons are used... this causes more oil blow by and slop and so more piston wear. This is especially true on turbocharged or supercharged engines. My recommendation would be to stroke to 331 cid for blown engines (or NOS engines). Same with the 351W engine... just cause it can go to 468 it doesn't mean this is safe for your application.
Another thing... someone called someone else an idiot for thinking the 302 SBF was the same engine as the 289 SBF. I can tell you the indeniable truth is that these are identical blocks in everyway you can measure. You can take a 289 block and drop a 302 crank into it and you have a 302. You can take a 302 block and drop a 289 crank into it and you have a 289. The bore is the same... so is EVERTHING esle. The stroke is different.
I have a 289 block with a 302 crank overbored 0.060 in my Stang right now. It is bored out some so I get about 307 cid out of it.
The 351W is identical to the 302 from about 8.5" up the deck downward. Both are 4" bores but the 351W has a longer stroke and longer deck (longer piston bores). Both are SBFs and will bolt up to the same bell housings, motor mounts, etc. Even the timing chain cover, etc is identical. There are custom 351W engines (www.dartheads.com) with extended deck heights allowing strokers to 468 or so cubic inches. Dart makes a 351W in aluminum or iron with 4 bolt mains and Cleveland crankshaft bore diameters (smaller for more velocity).
There are stroker kits for 302 engines and a common one is 347 cid. This doesn't mean that that engine can be safely stroked to 347 though... it depends on your application. To get 347 out of a 302 there is some grinding away of clearance points on the bottom of the cylinder walls and elsewhere to allow the crank clearance to turn. Also very short skirted pistons are used... this causes more oil blow by and slop and so more piston wear. This is especially true on turbocharged or supercharged engines. My recommendation would be to stroke to 331 cid for blown engines (or NOS engines). Same with the 351W engine... just cause it can go to 468 it doesn't mean this is safe for your application.
Another thing... someone called someone else an idiot for thinking the 302 SBF was the same engine as the 289 SBF. I can tell you the indeniable truth is that these are identical blocks in everyway you can measure. You can take a 289 block and drop a 302 crank into it and you have a 302. You can take a 302 block and drop a 289 crank into it and you have a 289. The bore is the same... so is EVERTHING esle. The stroke is different.
I have a 289 block with a 302 crank overbored 0.060 in my Stang right now. It is bored out some so I get about 307 cid out of it.
351W are often stroked to 408. You can push any of these engines further by compromising the strenght of other components like pistons, cylinder walls, etc. You could go to a maximum displacement on an engine that was to operate at lower rpms, no NOS, no supercharging, compression of 10:1 or less (swag)... the key is that you would have to make some compromises to ensure a lasting engine.HairyCanary said: