4.10s in and whining!

stangGT97

New Member

Dec 22, 2004

1,299

1

0

Boston area, MA

Aug 24, 2009

#1

• Aug 24, 2009

• #1

Let me start by saying that nothing automotive related ever goes right for me

I had my 4.10s installed by my friend's father, a 30 year ASE certified, reputable mechanic, and paid $462 for a full rebuild (shims, bearing, t-lok). He seemed very knowledgable, and had done many rear-end builds in the past so I thought everything should go smoothly. I got the car back from him and it's whining/howling very loudly under light throttle in 4th and 5th gear, loud enough to be a real bother to my ears. His stance is that the noise is normal since I put in an aggressive gear, but I know better than that.

I can't live with this. I need to convince a 30 year veteran mechanic that he botched an installation and that gear noise is not acceptable, but I don't know enough about what went wrong to do that. What should I do?

 

LastCallRacing

Premium Sponsor

Dec 4, 2008

172

1

19

San Diego, CA

Aug 24, 2009

#2

• Aug 24, 2009

• #2

You need to recheck the pinion depth and backlash. Those can both be the culprit of gear noise. Gear noise is not normal when the gears are installed properly, but the problem is some mechanics get too comfortable and don't set the pinion depth or backlash properly, or get it close to spec but not spend the extra time to get it perfect. Most good mechanics will use a gear wear grease and check for the wear pattern even after the pinion depth and backlash have been measured and set within spec.

Good luck!

 

stangGT97

New Member

Dec 22, 2004

1,299

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Boston area, MA

Aug 24, 2009

#3

• Aug 24, 2009

• #3

LastCallRacing said:

You need to recheck the pinion depth and backlash. Those can both be the culprit of gear noise. Gear noise is not normal when the gears are installed properly, but the problem is some mechanics get too comfortable and don't set the pinion depth or backlash properly, or get it close to spec but not spend the extra time to get it perfect. Most good mechanics will use a gear wear grease and check for the wear pattern even after the pinion depth and backlash have been measured and set within spec.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Thank you for the feedback. I stopped by during the installation and saw the gear wear grease on the ring gear, so I thought that he was being extra careful with his settings. I also asked about the shimming and was imformed that everything was set in the middle of the Ford specs. Wow I am so disappointed!

 

1987stangman

Member

Jul 12, 2006

684

24

19

Aug 24, 2009

#4

• Aug 24, 2009

• #4

stangGT97 said:

Let me start by saying that nothing automotive related ever goes right for me

I had my 4.10s installed by my friend's father, a 30 year ASE certified, reputable mechanic, and paid $462 for a full rebuild (shims, bearing, t-lok). He seemed very knowledgable, and had done many rear-end builds in the past so I thought everything should go smoothly. I got the car back from him and it's whining/howling very loudly under light throttle in 4th and 5th gear, loud enough to be a real bother to my ears. His stance is that the noise is normal since I put in an aggressive gear, but I know better than that.

I can't live with this. I need to convince a 30 year veteran mechanic that he botched an installation and that gear noise is not acceptable, but I don't know enough about what went wrong to do that. What should I do?

Click to expand...

Seen alot of these threads, it's funny how people take their cars to shops only to still get nasty gear whine when finished. Any mech that tells you that gear whine is normal is eithier not an experianced gear guy or a liar. I have set up many gear sets for myself and for others and have never had gear whine, even on lower gear ratios.

I only use Ford Racing gear sets and use the MHD (master housing dimension) technique.

 

98COBRA281

10 Year Member

Nov 24, 2007

1,348

30

59

Port St. Lucie, Florida

Aug 24, 2009

#5

• Aug 24, 2009

• #5

1987stangman said:

I only use Ford Racing gear sets and use the MHD (master housing dimension) technique.

Click to expand...

+1 frpp, MHD is so easy to use and works perfect, but it can only be done with frpp gears

 

twogts4us

15 Year Member

Apr 1, 2004

4,188

12

79

Dunedin, FL

Aug 24, 2009

#6

• Aug 24, 2009

• #6

At this point you probably need to take it to another garage...one that specializes in high performance. Describe exactly what you've told us here; ask them to take a look; maybe they'll have sympathy on you and try to get you out of there with at least some money left in your bank account. Let them know you've learned your lesson (I hope you have by now) and that you'll always bring your car to them for service (whether you do or not is entirely up to you).
Sorry this happened to you, but don't let it ruin your friendship. Best of luck!

 

CobraRed_96_GT

Active Member

May 20, 2006

1,421

4

39

UCSD/La Jolla

Aug 24, 2009

#7

• Aug 24, 2009

• #7

Did you use FRPP gears?

 

stangGT97

New Member

Dec 22, 2004

1,299

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Boston area, MA

Aug 25, 2009

#8

• Aug 25, 2009

• #8

CobraRed_96_GT said:

Did you use FRPP gears?

Click to expand...

Yes, because I read they were the least prone to whining.

 

jeremy canter

Member

Dec 2, 2008

402

0

17

Orange County , NY

Aug 25, 2009

#9

• Aug 25, 2009

• #9

Well its like this > all 93 , 94 and 95 Ford LIghtning trucks came from the factory with 4:10 gears in them and they don't whine > so something's up with the gears (not set to the right spec) > I totally blew the center out of my truck last year and rebuild installed new gears and a new posi in the rear IN MY DRIVEWAY with common tool and a set of feeler gauge's and the truck never made any noise > I drove it for two days and it was back at the drag strip racing > I put 12,000 miles on it before I sold it and it still never whined.

 

R

rjs281

New Member

Sep 26, 2004

51

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0

deer park tx

Aug 25, 2009

#10

• Aug 25, 2009

• #10

The other thing is if you drive to much you well not be able to get the whine out without a rebuild.May allready be to late.

 

stangGT97

New Member

Dec 22, 2004

1,299

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Boston area, MA

Aug 25, 2009

#11

• Aug 25, 2009

• #11

I was told to drive the car easy for 500 miles and the whine should go away, but it's definitely still here. Guess I will be making a road trip this weekend to get it fixed. Correct me if I'm wrong but he should be picking up the tab on the repairs, correct? Even if new parts are needed?

 

LI98GTStang

Founding Member

Jun 22, 2000

1,715

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36

L.I., NY

Aug 25, 2009

#12

• Aug 25, 2009

• #12

IMO, the proper way to handle the situation would be to explain it again to him that you've been in other mustangs with 4:10s that don't whine, that the noise can't stay this way and you would like to have him give it another go. If at that point he refuses, then you risk friendship if you try to get your money back - you can see what the shop charges to diagnose/fix the noise and if it's not too much eat it so you still have a local mechanic that you can go back to. Just don't let him touch any future gear installs.

 

stangGT97

New Member

Dec 22, 2004

1,299

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Boston area, MA

Aug 25, 2009

#13

• Aug 25, 2009

• #13

LI98GTStang said:

IMO, the proper way to handle the situation would be to explain it again to him that you've been in other mustangs with 4:10s that don't whine, that the noise can't stay this way and you would like to have him give it another go. If at that point he refuses, then you risk friendship if you try to get your money back - you can see what the shop charges to diagnose/fix the noise and if it's not too much eat it so you still have a local mechanic that you can go back to. Just don't let him touch any future gear installs.

Click to expand...

That's good advice. He has agreed to make the repairs this coming Monday, with the understanding that I will only be content when there is no whining whatsoever. I'll report back with my results.

BTW, beautiful car, LI98GTStang.

 

StangYellow

Founding Member

Sep 11, 2002

1,052

1

39

Aug 26, 2009

#14

• Aug 26, 2009

• #14

stangGT97 said:

I was told to drive the car easy for 500 miles and the whine should go away, but it's definitely still here. Guess I will be making a road trip this weekend to get it fixed. Correct me if I'm wrong but he should be picking up the tab on the repairs, correct? Even if new parts are needed?

Click to expand...

The 500 miles is for break in purposes. It will not resolve the spacing on the gears thats causing the whine. Just politely talk to the guy, take him for a ride and explain to him that the whine (fitment) isnt to your liking.

 

stangGT97

New Member

Dec 22, 2004

1,299

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Boston area, MA

Sep 8, 2009

#15

• Sep 8, 2009

• #15

Just wanted to post an update to this situation. I live in upstate NY, my girlfriend is in western MA, and my friend's father's shop is in central MA. I left my car at my girlfriend's place and had my friend take it back to his father's shop, since I wasn't going to have the time to take it there myself (had to be back in NY for work). The car was supposed to be fixed last Monday, but his father just kept putting it off, then just completely refused to do anything until September 14th. My friend had to go back to western MA for school, so my car is back at my girlfriend's place and still not fixed.

Now I'm left in this sticky situation - the guy is just completely uninterested in fixing his mistakes. The rearend is now making a loud howling sound around corners and I can hear/feel it binding, on top of the existing gear whine. It's probably headed for mechanical failure and I think at this point my only viable option is to bite the bullet and find a new shop. Should I go somewhere else to have it fixed and then try to get him to pay the bill?

 

K

Kilgore Trout

Fried or Broiled ?

10 Year Member

Mar 30, 2005

4,749

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134

Sep 8, 2009

#16

• Sep 8, 2009

• #16

Take it to a different shop. Sometimes it is necessary to go back in there and reset to get everything just right. Having to go back into a diff to re-adjust happens all the time and anyone familiar with ford rear ends would know that. Take it to a real good shop with experience on this part and your type of car. Consider going to a good ford stealership... It will be between $150 and $300 to get it corrected by a ford tech.

 

T

tonytaylor85

Member

Sep 3, 2009

126

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Augusta GA

Sep 8, 2009

#17

• Sep 8, 2009

• #17

The rearend is now making a loud howling sound around corners and I can hear/feel it binding

Click to expand...

Probably didnt use any XL3 friction modifier. I bought the mobil 1 that was supposed to have it in there when I installed the carbon fiber clutch pack but they groaned and creaked. I had soaked them in some generic friction modifier I had in the shop.
I installed my 3.73s and soaked the same clutches (still looked new) in XL3 and used dino oil and another bottle of XL3 on the refill and all is well.

 

scupking

Active Member

Sep 18, 2005

1,186

1

36

Enfield, CT

Sep 8, 2009

#18

• Sep 8, 2009

• #18

I also just had FRPP 4.10s installed and they whine, not very loud but at 45-50 and 80mph I can hear it. Same speeds my 3.73s made the noise.

 

GRAYPNY

New Member

Apr 9, 2006

23

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Northern California

Sep 8, 2009

#19

• Sep 8, 2009

• #19

Were the gears FRPP A or M? The M gears are motive and tend to whine and A gears are better and are prone to less problems.

I had 4:10's installed by a local shop and they just weren't right from the get go. After 18 months of them getting worse and worse i went to a Ford dealer that was known for having a great gear guy. I found this out too late of course. I had him reinstall the stock 3:55's and they don't make a peep.

Have another qualified shop that has done gears for our cars and have them fixed. Go to your friend and take him for a ride, then show him the bill that the other shop charged. If he isn't interested in refunding you any money, he's not a friend that I would want to have.

 

fast97gt

Active Member

Jan 2, 2007

1,082

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49

north carolina

Sep 8, 2009

#20

• Sep 8, 2009

• #20

hey print this off and give it to him: im sick of you people yanking the s*** out of wankers, and trying to fill us up with B.S. I also paid to have my 4.10s installed $498. ya i got ripped, mine howled the minute i left the shop, turned around took it back, the guy told me it was the spider gears makin the noise. the only way to fix it would be to replace them. i called B.S. then he tried to tell me it was because my t-lock was worn. so i bought a new frpp install kit, t-lock rebuild kit, read the write up on this forum redid it all by my lonsome and now 75,000 or better HARD miles they still dont make a peep. (that included new bearings, crush sleeve, shims etc.) now ive worked on cars my whole life for two reasons: 1) i like doing it, 2) i dont trust shops and they are way over priced. the only reason i took mine to have the gears installed because i was skeered.