4-link / minitub question about 65 coupe

65inworks · Jan 24, 2006

I am currently taking a chassisfab course at my school. i have been okayed to do a project on my car but i am required to fab all the bracketry necessary for the project. the only thing i can buy is the wheel tubs and actual suspension components, ie coilovers and bushings etc.. has anybody done a protouring style 4 link on their car. i know martz has a kit but besides this has anyone done their own design. also the main reason along with better handling for the 4 link is to be able to fit a late model 17x10.5 rim with something like a 315 sized rear tire. how much wider do you think i will need to make the tub? will the gas tank need to be changed? what about the rear seating area, will i have to make aluminum pans for that or do you guys think that i would be able to leave the rear seat alone? i know its alot of questons but any + input would be appreciated thanks nick

the car currently still has rear leafs but when the project begins i will have an 8.8.

xoxbxfx · Jan 24, 2006

good luck with your project... Let me tell you what I know.

Minitubbing these cars is almost worthless... You will gain about an inch per side after going all teh way up to the frame rail. You might gain another 1/2" by rolling teh fender lips. Doing a 17x10.5 and some 315's is going to need a full 4link or ladder bar setup. With the width of the wheels and tires in relation to a wheel tub, I would say a minimum of 1" on each side of the TIRE. So atleast a 315 is 12.4" wide so a tub of 14.5" would be good. A 4 link is a great setup but takes some fine tuning. The gas tank will probably have to move around, but it depends on how far over you move your new frame rails. YOu gotta move them in to fit the wheeltubs and the wheels, so its gonna be tight on the tank but it might work.

the rear seat area will be ok IF you stick with the same size tub and only change the width. Might hit the supports for the backseat but those can be cut and rewelded. You are taking a BIG project on

mtbdoc · Jan 24, 2006

Four link is NOT a handling suspension. If you are serious about a road course style of rear suspension, go over to corner-carvers.com, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION [you will get beaten for asking questions without searching], and see what turns up. That is the place to get into suspension discussions if you want to go around corners [as opposed to a 1/4mi straight!].

0to100to0 · Jan 24, 2006

martz chassis

i was thinking about going with the martz chassis kit and welding it in.... you can just do what they did.....new frame rails to make more room. you can get a fuel cell that mounts above the frame rails.
and stop using stangnet to cheat on your homework!

matt

gzminiz · Jan 25, 2006

i was thinking about going with the martz chasis as well. Just so much $$$$. Maybe a group buy? hehe

0to100to0 · Jan 25, 2006

i don't really think the martz chassis is really that much.......for all the parts and flexibility you get....1250 isn't to bad.
i've been corresponding with them by email and have asked about prices of upgrades, and they have a wilwood brake set for $650 and u can by a rear end with moser parts for $1480...and don't get me started on their front end kits.
now lets all go out and work some overtime!

matt

gzminiz · Jan 25, 2006

It isn't bad at all, just not in my budget. Cheaper to get cal tracs and panhard bar. Got a kid on the way, no OT for me (salary) and school. Gotta get the best value items. The rear is a good deal, I am guesing that doesn't include the third member.

65inworks · Jan 25, 2006

what would be the best rear suspension type for a car that is driven hard to and from work 2-3 times a week. like i said i am going for the pro touring look also? would it be easier to keep the rear leaf design and just move them inwards? or is there not enoguh room? thanks guys, Nick

LMan · Jan 25, 2006

why do you want to move the leafs inward?

65inworks · Jan 25, 2006

to make room for the 315's. i would do this rather than 4 linking.

steel1212 · Jan 25, 2006

Is there a special reason why you want 315s? I have 275s right now and when I put on new 1/4s to rid myself of the bondo in the ones I have now I'll be able to roll the lips and will be OK, not perfect, but ok. In my opinon with cal tracs thats as big a tires as you need and if your driving it more than just on the weekends I would go with the 235s just to make sure you have pleanty of room. I'm am of course assuming that your going with a drag radial. Mickey thompson told me that they are comeing out with a 255/65/15 and I'll be trying that to see if its any better fit than my 275s.

LUCAFU1 · Jan 26, 2006

gzminiz said:
i was thinking about going with the martz chasis as well. Just so much $$$$. Maybe a group buy? hehe

Im serious about buying one. If we can get a few more people Im sure they would do something. Its takes about 2-3 weeks to ship they said. I really want one. If your serious I say lets do it.
Btw I just want there kit and sway bar. I think thats all I would need.
Luis

0to100to0 · Jan 26, 2006

i am pretty sure about it too......

but i won't be making a purchase for about 3 months.
i have corresponded with them quite a bit and there are some pretty cool upgrades:
Prices are as follows:
"$2850 front suspension unit
200 QA1 coil over upgrade
250 Front sway bar
650 Front Wilwood brakes Upgrade (from 11" explorer brakes)
$1250 rear kit
250 rear sway bar
200 rear coil over upgrade
800 rear Wilwood brakes
1480 rear, 9" any ratio w/ Ford posi & Moser axles (detroit locker is +$100)
600 core support and alum panels
345 radiator

more information you might find interesting:
the front kit is adjustable from lowered 2 inches to stock height and the rear has something like 3 to 4 inches of adjustability.

also, you kind of have to use their oil pan (or make one) that clears their rack and pinion! the thing is funny looking, it has a giant notch cut out of the bottom.

hope this helps
matt

gzminiz · Jan 26, 2006

iam serious about getting one if the price is right, and timing, like i said, i got a kid on the way so the money has to be there. I figured I would get the rear kit and rear end with detroit locker when it comes time.

LUCAFU1 · Jan 26, 2006

Cool and congrats on the Kid. Raise em to love mustangs and they'll be fine =)

I just want the rear 4 Link. I will find me a cheaper 9 inch (I hope). I just got my Heidts IFS kit yesterday (10 boxes). I cant wait. I would like to do the front, then the rear, strip, and paint. Oh yeah Im still debating on the cage.

Luis

mtbdoc · Jan 26, 2006

On my 66 'vert we moved the leafs inward, and I can fit an 11" wide wheel under the stock sheet metal...but it is a good bit of work. It is not for road course handling, though. As to why someone might need that much tire...HORSEPOWER!!! My car will has a 331 stroker, AFR heads, KB blower @ 12psi...it will need all the rubber I can get under it, assuming I eventually get this thing completed and on the road!!!

EVM is working on a rear suspension setup [3 link] which will be much better suited for corner carving. If I decide to build my 2+2 up, that is likely the approach I will take. I have talked to Martz and they claim great road course handling with their products...but I am just not convinced that the short arms in the front [MII style suspension] is going to be the hot setup...nor a 4 link in the back...

OTOH, Martz really has some experience in the real world building race cars. Great to talk with on the phone. I think that further exploration needs to be done before deciding one way or the other about their setup for a great handling machine. Certainly getting rid of the shock towers is nice, as you have a LOT more room for engine projects.

Sundance · Jan 27, 2006

If you take a carefull look at the Martz rear suspension it acts more as a ladder bar then a four link.

The Martz front suspension has very little geometry in common with a Mustang II suspension.

"Mustang II Suspension" is VERY general term these days. The term can be applied to a suspension with the exact geometry as the original. The term can be applied to a suspension that uses Mustang II spindles. Hell the term is even used if it has nothing in common with a Mustang II at all!

So be careful when you make assumptions about "Mustang II" suspensions.

65inworks · Jan 30, 2006

anyonw have pics of a wide tire /rim package in a 65/66 stang. something 9 inches and over preferably

mtbdoc · Jan 30, 2006

Sundance said:
If you take a carefull look at the Martz rear suspension it acts more as a ladder bar then a four link.

The Martz front suspension has very little geometry in common with a Mustang II suspension.

"Mustang II Suspension" is VERY general term these days. The term can be applied to a suspension with the exact geometry as the original. The term can be applied to a suspension that uses Mustang II spindles. Hell the term is even used if it has nothing in common with a Mustang II at all!

So be careful when you make assumptions about "Mustang II" suspensions.

Do you have measurements to support that? My R & C front end really doesn't look like an MII either...looks a LOT like the Martz.

In order to have longer control arms, you are going to have to move the pivots more to the midline...I am not aware of anyone that has done that. I THINK [but do not know for a fact] that all of these systems are using the same length control arms.

Again, we need some real data with info such as Ackerman, roll center, camber curve, etc. Then we can talk factually.

And I agree, it is a ladder bar, which is NOT designed for corner carving!

LUCAFU1 · Jan 30, 2006

mtbdoc said:
Do you have measurements to support that? My R & C front end really doesn't look like an MII either...looks a LOT like the Martz.

In order to have longer control arms, you are going to have to move the pivots more to the midline...I am not aware of anyone that has done that. I THINK [but do not know for a fact] that all of these systems are using the same length control arms.

Again, we need some real data with info such as Ackerman, roll center, camber curve, etc. Then we can talk factually.

And I agree, it is a ladder bar, which is NOT designed for corner carving!

So what your saying is is made for the drag strip (4 link)?
What would happen if you did try and aut x with it? Would it preform worse then the stock suspension?
Thanks

Luis

4-link / minitub question about 65 coupe

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