408 engines

Chronos[AsG] · Jun 25, 2004

I've been thinking about different engines to put in my car when I upgrade the engine. I don't know much about the 408 blocks. How much HP do they put out on average? Would they be good for a street car? Also, are there any wear issues with stroker engines? I dont want to take it out and rebuild it every year.

Secondly, how much horsepower can a car make before it gets too powerful to be a street car/daily driver?

Thanks.

giddyup306 · Jun 26, 2004

Chronos[AsG] said:
I've been thinking about different engines to put in my car when I upgrade the engine. I don't know much about the 408 blocks. How much HP do they put out on average? Would they be good for a street car? Also, are there any wear issues with stroker engines? I dont want to take it out and rebuild it every year.

Secondly, how much horsepower can a car make before it gets too powerful to be a street car/daily driver?

Thanks.

The 408 is actually a 351W based engine with a 4" stroke and a .030" overboar. How much HP? As much money as you want to sink into it. Rick has somewhere around 1200HP on his. Hopefully he'll chime in on this thread.

jasonlee0704 · Jun 26, 2004

A 408 stroker engine would be fine for a street car, but if you're worried about wear, 408's about the upper limit for cubes from a standard 351W engine block.

Streetability doesn't necessarily have to be directly linked with HP output. Throw a numerically high-enough rear-end gear in any car, and it loses streetability, no matter the power you're producing. Put a cam that moves the powerband up too far, produces too little vacuum, or idles horribly, and the car loses streetability. And so forth... but there are plenty of 400-500 hp street-capable 393/408 stroker combos out there... before bolting on a power adder.

Chronos[AsG] · Jun 26, 2004

Thanks for the info. I just cant make up my mind what I want to do. What size block do I want? How much HP to shoot for. Do I want to add a power adder at some point, or no? So many questions.

65ShelbyClone · Jun 26, 2004

With a 351W you can technically go as far as 427ci, but that truly is the limit and no one does it for durability reasons. There are a few 408s in the 600hp N/A, but thats getting unrealistic for a street car. I bet a 400rwhp 393 or 408 wouldnt be, though.

giddyup306 · Jun 26, 2004

65ShelbyClone said:
With a 351W you can technically go as far as 427ci, but that truly is the limit and no one does it for durability reasons.

There are kits out there that can stroke a Windsor to 454 CID.

5.0 HOtrain · Jun 26, 2004

giddyup306 said:
There are kits out there that can stroke a Windsor to 454 CID.

Dart or SVO block based with 4.25 bore.

My 418 makes the power in sig with out of box parts. Isn't the most friendly thing on the street but i'm not in stop and go traffic everyday. And the more I run it the better it gets. There are plenty of sizes to choose from stock blocked 377,393,408,410,418,427. Most with good heads, cam , and induction set up picked for streetability in mind will make in the ballpark of 500fwhp. Good luck, it's NOT cheap .
mike.

Rick 91GT · Jun 26, 2004

Mike has a nice borderline streetable combo, make really good power and torque. His compression is about as high as you can go on pump gas and be safe in the summer

My first question to anyone building a big motor is "Does it have to pass emissons?" If it does that throws a big curve in the entire combo, and really will limit the hp because the head choice is small.

My old 408 combo that I was building on the bottle should have made 1100-1200hp, most healthy NA 408ci motors can make 700HP plus but are not very streetable.

Big motors like BIG parts, a 11:1 408ci, with a properly ported TFS-R, AFR225, Brodix, or other large head will make good power. Induction is limited if you want to stay EFI, the Super Vic Spyder, Reichard box upper/TFS R lower, or TFS 351R intake are pretty much your choices. Carbed I'd go Super Victor and a 750-850 carb, and a custom cam (I prefer Ed Curtis @ FTI)

It will cost you $10,000+ and you'll need a good large fuel system, drivetrain (rear and tranny) and the car will have to have a good chassis, roll bar, suspesion, etc.

5.0 HOtrain · Jun 26, 2004

Rick 91GT said:
Big motors like BIG parts,

Why do so many people not see that?? I got a ton of flack for the cam size, intake and carb size on mine

Rick 91GT said:
a 11:1 408ci, with a properly ported TFS-R, AFR225, Brodix, or other large head will make good power. Induction is limited if you want to stay EFI, the Super Vic Spyder, Reichard box upper/TFS R lower, or TFS 351R intake are pretty much your choices. Carbed I'd go Super Victor and a 750-850 carb, and a custom cam (I prefer Ed Curtis @ FTI).

I would have loved to buy a set of the M2 racing ported Brodix heads, just didnt have the money, price is what attracted me to the "R" heads, and a head that flows in the 300+cfm range out of the box like the AFR205 and up you just cant beat. If i'm unhappy with the car on the street I WILL be calling Ed for a cam, LOVED his grind for the 302.

Rick 91GT said:
It will cost you $10,000+ and you'll need a good large fuel system, drivetrain (rear and tranny) and the car will have to have a good chassis, roll bar, suspesion, etc.

Again, AMEN to that, my carbed fuel system cost a ch over $1000, and I had to modify it, To do over again I think I would have sumped the tank instead of using the insert, had to remove the -6 return and weld in a 1/2 ss tube because the -6 was too small and built pressure at the regulator, couldnt get under 9psi. Live and learn though.
mike.

Chronos[AsG] · Jun 26, 2004

Thanks for the information everyone. I've done some research and I think I've decided to go the NA route, with the option of maybe bolting on a supercharger later. So now I have to figure out what size block I want to use.

I have two big questions right now:

1) How much matience would a EFI 408 require? Would I have to check on it every day? Or is it something I could drive on a daily basis without worrying too much?

2) I've heard it said that an engine can make up to about 1HP per cubic inch before it becomes too much for a street car. Is this a reasonably accurate approximation?

Thanks for any responses, I'm learning alot from you guys.

Rick 91GT · Jun 27, 2004

1) If you build it with "Streetability" in mind then you will have no problems, it will be no different then any performance motor.

2) You can make over 1hp be cube and still have a very streetable car.

Are emissons a concern? This will dictate what head you need to use.

If Emissons aren't a concern I'd go with a Dished piston for around 9.5:1 (still usuable with a blower) AFR205 or AFR225, TFS R351 intake, 42#-50# inj, 80mm MAF, 80mm-90mm TB, 1.875" headers, 3" exh, custom cam "FTI" hyd roller for more maintence free operation and easier on springs. With less compression the HP will suffer, but you need to plan the motor out now for the blower so it will cost you less when you make that change.

Chronos[AsG] · Jun 27, 2004

Thanks for all the recommendation!

Emissions aren't a concern, so I definitely have more leeway there.

The supercharger is still tentative right now and I could change my mind before I build the engine, but right now I think its probably a good idea and leave it as an option. Thanks again!

mustangman33 · Jun 27, 2004

Rick 91GT said:
Mike has a nice borderline streetable combo, make really good power and torque. His compression is about as high as you can go on pump gas and be safe in the summer

My first question to anyone building a big motor is "Does it have to pass emissons?" If it does that throws a big curve in the entire combo, and really will limit the hp because the head choice is small.

My old 408 combo that I was building on the bottle should have made 1100-1200hp, most healthy NA 408ci motors can make 700HP plus but are not very streetable.

Big motors like BIG parts, a 11:1 408ci, with a properly ported TFS-R, AFR225, Brodix, or other large head will make good power. Induction is limited if you want to stay EFI, the Super Vic Spyder, Reichard box upper/TFS R lower, or TFS 351R intake are pretty much your choices. Carbed I'd go Super Victor and a 750-850 carb, and a custom cam (I prefer Ed Curtis @ FTI)

It will cost you $10,000+ and you'll need a good large fuel system, drivetrain (rear and tranny) and the car will have to have a good chassis, roll bar, suspesion, etc.

Rick, are you using a stock block or an aftermarket block getting that much hp, I have an 87 351w block and thats the kinda power Im looking for, but my engine shop says that Im almost maxed out, and I dont care about driveability either, just wanna pop wheelies like you.

Rick 91GT · Jun 27, 2004

I was going to use a older 351W block that may have survived but I switched to a SVO block. Those late model blocks aren't super strong and many have broke them at 600HP.

The wheelie pic was with a 302, my car hasn't hit the pavement yet with the 351W block combo.

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