427 Windsor 460 Hp

HEADACHEZ · Jul 17, 2013

I am going to be pulling the trigger on this engine soon. However I have a couple of questions. I plan on using an AOD tranny but I'm not sure which company or setup I should use? I know that I must have at least a 2000 stall converter. I also am unsure of what rear-end setup I should use, right now I just have the stock 8". Would it be wise to just rebuild the 8" or use completely different rear-end.

Here is the link to the engine: http://www.smedingperformance.com/fo...orsepower.html

The car is a 1967 Mustang Coupe

clement · Jul 18, 2013

why would you want a 427" that the heads, cam amd intake will barely feed a 302?? and why would you pay $10k for such an engine?!?! its a nice shortblock, but those heads, intake and cam just don't get it done on an engine that size. im honestly surprised it is still making power at 5000 rpm. just saying.

HEADACHEZ · Jul 18, 2013

clement said:
why would you want a 427" that the heads, cam amd intake will barely feed a 302?? and why would you pay $10k for such an engine?!?! its a nice shortblock, but those heads, intake and cam just don't get it done on an engine that size. im honestly surprised it is still making power at 5000 rpm. just saying.

Ok so what do u suggest?

racerxmd · Jul 18, 2013

Give Ford Performance Solutions in Anaheim a call at #714-774-9027 and ask for Troy Bowen the owner. He will steer you in the right direction. They built my 427 but with a '74 Stock block. My motor is a pump gas 11 to 1 compression with Aluminum Avenger Heads with 2.08 exhaust valves and 1.6 intake valves. Motor also has a Solid Roller cam with 252/257 dur. and .683/.685 lift and 112* lobe separation. Using 1.7 ratio rockers too. As for intake ,it has a Supper Victor with port work and a Pro-Systems 840 cfm carburetor.They used a basic dyno headers (think they were 1 3/4" longtubes). Motor made 612/584 at just 6000 prms and was still climbing in the dyno sheet. Here it is:

HEADACHEZ said:
Ok so what do u suggest?

mtaqua · Jul 18, 2013

I concur, if starting from scratch why not more (unless you want to limit yourself). what are your goals? I know someone who has a posi 8" chunk (and I think it is 355 gears). There are several companies that could build a motor for a similar price with more power.

iskwezm · Jul 18, 2013

racerxmd said:
Give Ford Performance Solutions in Anaheim a call at #714-774-9027 and ask for Troy Bowen the owner. He will steer you in the right direction.

He F-ed me 2 times over on my build and a few buddies/other people that i know of. His head builder left and told me other things about my build that really pissed me off(put a N/A cam,106 lobe center, when he knew it was a turbo motor and also put in pistons with a 5cc relief instead of the 17cc i needed for low compression because thats all they had at the time).

I will NEVER recommend them to anybody. I had to rebuild my engine myself less then 18 months after i got it due to blowing 6 sets of headgaskets and bearing failure.I went to Dr J's performance,he went through the heads and sold me some MLS 4.100 gaskets and havent had a problem since. Just my experience with them.

clement · Jul 18, 2013

I would say find a local builder with a good reputation. But if you absolutely have to buy a crate motor, I would probably talk to Jim Woods at Ford Strokers. Brian at AD Performance is also a stand up guy.

racerxmd · Jul 18, 2013

Sounds like a unhappy ex-employee to me. I have know Troy for over 20 plus years,. He has built several engines for me. I live on the East Coast, so that should tell you something. Why would I take a chance and have a builder I don't truss build me something on the other side of the country. All my experiences have All Been Great. He also steers me right when I want to buy something that won't work. He won't just sell you something you don't need.

Good Luck on your quest.

clement · Jul 18, 2013

racerxmd said:
Sounds like a unhappy ex-employee to me. I have know Troy for over 20 plus years,. He has built several engines for me..

I have no dog in this fight, but I will say that I have a local guy who has done a lot of good work for me but has screwed many people. I have known him for a long time which might be the reason he hasn't ever done me wrong. but I know for a fact he has **** others. which is why I don't recommend him but still occasionally use him. just because someone has been good to one person doesn't mean they will not screw others. just my $.02.

rbohm · Jul 18, 2013

back to the OP, for a strong AOD, i suggest going to http://www.lentechautomatics.com/index2.htm and have them sell you one of their properly built transmissions. lentech modifies the valve bodies to change the shift pattern as well as upgrading the shift quality. and they have a variety of ways they can build your AOD as well, including setting up a wide ratio AOD in case you want more first gear than the stock AOD comes with.

clement · Jul 18, 2013

wide ratio deal can hurt you if you have a tight converter. if he is going to run that big of a motor the standard 2.4 gearset should be fine, especially with a tight converter. also the lower the ratio of the gearset the lower tq capacity the trans will have.

racerxmd · Jul 18, 2013

Just spoke with Troy at FPS. Told me his ex-engine builder is back working with him. Most his workers have 17 plus yrs. working there. Don't make sense to bad mouth a job and then return there.

clement said:
wide ratio deal can hurt you if you have a tight converter. if he is going to run that big of a motor the standard 2.4 gearset should be fine, especially with a tight converter. the lower the ratio of the gearset the lower tq capacity the trans will have.

iskwezm · Jul 18, 2013

racerxmd said:
Sounds like a unhappy ex-employee to me. I have know Troy for over 20 plus years,. He has built several engines for me. I live on the East Coast, so that should tell you something.

That tells me nothing.All it means it you got lucky. How would you feel if you told him EXACTLY what you wanted for a turbo motor. Then after a cam goes flat that he installed and he says "this is the wrong cam". Then a couple months later after a blown headgasket, pull the heads to reveal the wrong pistons. How does he fix it? by enlarging the chamber on the heads so now they are unuseable on anything else.

Talk to him all you want, have dinner with the guy and exchange christmas cards. All i know is i got burned, and others have to.I thought being local(less then 10 miles) would make it easier if there were any problems.I guess not.

as far as a unhappy ex employee, he fixed the issue they Troy couldnt.

racerxmd · Jul 18, 2013

Not saying it didn't happen, but as far as my own experience all was good.

iskwezm said:
That tells me nothing.All it means it you got lucky. How would you feel if you told him EXACTLY what you wanted for a turbo motor. Then after a cam goes flat that he installed and he says "this is the wrong cam". Then a couple months later after a blown headgasket, pull the heads to reveal the wrong pistons. How does he fix it? by enlarging the chamber on the heads so now they are unuseable on anything else.

Talk to him all you want, have dinner with the guy and exchange christmas cards. All i know is i got burned, and others have to.I thought being local(less then 10 miles) would make it easier if there were any problems.I guess not.

as far as a unhappy ex employee, he fixed the issue they Troy couldnt.

rbohm · Jul 19, 2013

clement said:
wide ratio deal can hurt you if you have a tight converter. if he is going to run that big of a motor the standard 2.4 gearset should be fine, especially with a tight converter. also the lower the ratio of the gearset the lower tq capacity the trans will have.

that depends on what overall combination he is running. for instance if he wants good top end speed, but needs dig off the line, a low first gear combined with a moderate final drive ratio will put the par where he wants it. as for you suggestion that a wide ratio gear set can hurt if you have a tight converter, thats rubbish. the converter is what is holding back the engine, not the gear set. a tight converter doesnt allow the engine to rev quickly into its power band like a looser converter does.

clement · Jul 19, 2013

wide ratio = more rpm drop on shifts. tight converter = doesn't slip as much after the shift and mask big drop = worse shift recovery with a 12" 2000 rpm converter like he talking about vs. an 8" 5600 coan like I run. ask a converter guy if you don't believe me. that's what 'hurt you' meant. the converter multiplies tq with the gearset in the trans and the axle ratio. so its not 'just the converter', if that were the case we'd all be running a powerglide. having too much tq multiplication can be as bad as having not enough, especially in the light street car with a big motor that is just going to blow the tires off. not to mention that the lower ratio setups lower the tq capacity of the trans because the gear teeth in the planetary are thinner. ive got both a 2.4 aod planetary and a 4r70w 2.84 planetary in the shop to support this hypothesis. besides, how much first gear does a 4"+ stroke small block need in a 3200lb car? the effective total first gear ratio of a 3.55 with a 2.84 4r70 is the same as a standard 2.4 aod with a 4.20 in back, except with the tight converter the 2.84 is going to have a lot more rpm drop on the shift. with a 2000 rpm converter the bigger rpm drop between shifts with the 2.84 planetary will hurt the acceleration more than having a deep first gear will help based on my experience. if it needs to leave hard you put more converter, run a transbrake and let the converter do its job.

95Vert383AOD · Jul 20, 2013

clement said:
I would say find a local builder with a good reputation. But if you absolutely have to buy a crate motor, I would probably talk to Jim Woods at Ford Strokers. Brian at AD Performance is also a stand up guy.

Ive heard alot about Ford Strokers....Ive delt with AD in the past and Brian was great help.

On the OP....That 427 is a truck motor....Low stall, high torque.

rbohm · Jul 20, 2013

clement said:
wide ratio = more rpm drop on shifts. tight converter = doesn't slip as much after the shift and mask big drop = worse shift recovery with a 12" 2000 rpm converter like he talking about vs. an 8" 5600 coan like I run. ask a converter guy if you don't believe me. that's what 'hurt you' meant. the converter multiplies tq with the gearset in the trans and the axle ratio. so its not 'just the converter', if that were the case we'd all be running a powerglide. having too much tq multiplication can be as bad as having not enough, especially in the light street car with a big motor that is just going to blow the tires off. not to mention that the lower ratio setups lower the tq capacity of the trans because the gear teeth in the planetary are thinner. ive got both a 2.4 aod planetary and a 4r70w 2.84 planetary in the shop to support this hypothesis. besides, how much first gear does a 4"+ stroke small block need in a 3200lb car? the effective total first gear ratio of a 3.55 with a 2.84 4r70 is the same as a standard 2.4 aod with a 4.20 in back, except with the tight converter the 2.84 is going to have a lot more rpm drop on the shift. with a 2000 rpm converter the bigger rpm drop between shifts with the 2.84 planetary will hurt the acceleration more than having a deep first gear will help based on my experience. if it needs to leave hard you put more converter, run a transbrake and let the converter do its job.

like i said, its the converter holding back the combination, NOT the gear set.

clement · Jul 20, 2013

rbohm said:
like i said, its the converter holding back the combination, NOT the gear set.

then why would you recommend a wide ratio gear set knowing the converter he is planning on running?

rbohm · Jul 20, 2013

clement said:
then why would you recommend a wide ratio gear set knowing the converter he is planning on running?

for the very reasons i suggested in my post. a little reading would benefit you. and second, usually when someone builds a motor that they plan on using at the track on a regular basis, that they are going to use a higher stall converter. he even said he recognized that he needs a converter of at least 2000 rpm, though i would recommend something more like 3000-3500 for his combination.

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