460 ci. Ford in an RV Wanna run nitrous

5spd GT · Nov 21, 2007

I sense some trouble trying to install a volitile nitrous set-up going up a hill, with that much weight.

Sounds interesting though

Turbo is the way to go. The diesel guys do it all the time

DocG · Nov 21, 2007

I've tried searching for any info on such a setup too....and have found nothing. While that doesn't necessarily mean anything, there might be some merit to the fact that maybe no one else has ever done this.

Soooo.....if you're willing to take a risk and be a test-subject.....go for it. I'd think there's a decent chance that something might not go as planned since this does not seem to be a common application.

So if he's got money to fix any mistakes and is willing to do several test runs before any major trips.....go for it! I'd like to know how this turns out though!

90blacknight · Nov 21, 2007

iLkYsPoNy said:
Have you considered DEI?

That may be a viable option. For those scratching their heads, here it is:

The simplicity of it is sheer genius!

dgollem · Nov 21, 2007

Daggar, having spent time (ALCAN Highway) behind the wheel of a big RV I hear what your saying. Unfortunately, when you pull those long grades the amount of time at or near wide open throttle is several minutes. I don't know what would happen to an engine sprayed for that long. The cost and availability of nitrous may also be an unavoidable limiting factor. Don't know of too many KOAs that can fill a N02 tank, lol. What I have seen most do is basic upgrades like the banks system and possibly a water-alcohol injector system like the one Snow makes. The water-alcohol injector may cool things down a little bit so some more timing might be added. Our solution in the end was to trade the gas powered RV in for a turbo diesel model. Night and day difference in pulling grades, longevity and even fuel economy 6 mpg gas, 10-12 diesel same size RV. Sorry this doesn’t help answer your question about N02 but I think if were a viable option Banks or someone else would market a kit. Great question though, good luck.

DEFWISH · Nov 21, 2007

lol the dei is killin me!

FastDriver · Nov 21, 2007

You need a turbo, or just H/C/I. Turbos aren't doin anything while you cruise, but they come on under more load, like on a steep grade with a heavy vehicle. The trick would be to make sure your compression is low: 9:1 or so. If it is, I'd get a small turbo, a T88 would probably about right for a motor that big, but you could even go smaller if you wanted a lower spool.

Superchargers are going to wear on that thing and cost significat mileage because it will boost based on rpm, not load. So, it'll always be going even when you're jsut cruising. The other thing is that reduced atmosphere will not affect turbos, they'll still spool the same differential boost pressure regardless when under load.

Turbos can be had as affordably as superchargers, but they're a lot more work to install.

Chris

Daggar · Nov 21, 2007

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I'll refer to the original post when I say that a turbo is pretty much out of the question. For the most part, these RV motors are "entombed" and a pain in the arse to access and modify. Running the all the piping and extra "crap" for a turbo would be prohibitive.

As far as WOT throttle goes, my thought was to run one of the systems that was activated by the TPS operated window switch. Well, that and a manual activation switch and perhaps even one more window switch that ensures that there is no spray below 3000 rpm (depending on where the cam feels comfortable).

My thought was that once the manual activated switch was thrown, that nitrous would be activated via. TPS signal anywhere from 3/4 to WOT. That way, the spray would activate even if the cruise control were on (so long as the manual activation switch were on).

The primary concern of course, is whether a motor would take a relatively small shot of nitrous for a moderate period of time while chugging up the side of a steep hill.

Compression on this motor is at or below 9.0 to 1. It's an RV... it's setup pretty much the same way the tow truck, BBF motors were setup.

If it were up to me and I were made of money then sure... turbos, built 460s, and a flux capaciter would all be great options. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit into the model of being an optional and occational power adder. As mentioned before, it's not often that this thing would be used... we're looking for a solution for ONLY those occational steep climbs. Any other time, the motor is adequate.

jake2582 · Nov 21, 2007

GTOReturns said:
It wont work. You'll blow that sucker ski high on the 1st pull! It's too much load/weight to be adding a jolt of HP/torque like that. Especially against Mr. Newton!

Maybe a 50 shot, but much more and you are flirting with disaster!

AGREE
nitrous would blow your motor sky high on a long spray.
the thing would be constantly loaded, it would be like a drag car on launch constantly.
a 50 shot at the verrrrryyy max.
youll blow that thing.

Daggar · Nov 21, 2007

I don't see a 50 or 100 wet shot "blowing the motor sky high" unless the tune is so out of whack that it leans and goes boom.

We're looking at a relatively small shot of nitrous on a big block to increase torque... not a big shot that will propel it down a quarter mile.

In other words, the conbination we're after is one that will provide enough additional fuel and oxygen to keep the RPM and torque high enough to maintain 50 to 60 MPH while climbing a hill, not continually adding more and more nitrous until we're at max speed.

So it's a balance that we're seeking. Adding nitrous will surely cause an increase in engine temp but we want a shot that's small enough to augment, not double the rating the of the motor.

Yeah... we're Msutang guys and think of nitrous as a way to make us go fast. Instead... this application is looking for a systaining shot, not a huge power shot.

Nitrous applications blow up when either lean conditions are achieved or cylinder pressure rises enough to break parts. I'm not talking about running a shot large enough to do the latter.

I might also add that systems like the one I'm seeking are readily available for diesal applications and there are some talking papers out there for them. It doesn't seem to be common amongst gas engines mostly I think, becuase as someone else has suggested, they go diesal and are done with it.

jake2582 · Nov 21, 2007

think of how hot the all ready hot engine will be after a hill climb on the spray.
like i said i might try 50hp that is all.

Daggar · Nov 21, 2007

A 50 wet shot might actually do the trick if we're able to gain 100+ ft/lbs of torque from it. I'm actually more concerned with the tranny temp than engine temp. Even in the worst climbs, the engine and cooling system do very well.

jake2582 · Nov 21, 2007

i am concerned with head and cylinder temp on a long pull

dgollem · Nov 21, 2007

Maybe a 50 shot and a water/alcohol injector?

jake2582 · Nov 21, 2007

dgollem said:
Maybe a 50 shot and a water/alcohol injector?

great idea!, cant belive i didnt think of it myself.

Daggar · Nov 21, 2007

Initially, I thought about that as well. However, all we'd really be doing is adding air and fuel to the combustion mixture. So long as the motor internals were able to handle the additional pressure (which I think it is... the motor is not putting out near what a 460 is capable of handling in its present form) and we don't exceed the cooling systems capacity to deal with teh additional heat, then all should be well.

If for whatever reason, the engine was still not able to maintain an adequate RPM then the second window switch would cut off nitrous before a stalling effect could occur.

thoughts?

Daggar · Nov 21, 2007

dgollem said:
Maybe a 50 shot and a water/alcohol injector?

I'm not sure that would be necessary given the cooling effect of the nitrous itself.

Keep in mind that this is supposed to be a relatively small shot of nitrous.

One other thing is that water/meth would require additional tuning to make use of it. The timing controller I think would be best the best solution I've read so far to ensure no detonation.

Perhaps even set the thing up to pull 2* timing whenever the window switch is activated.

GTOreturns · Nov 21, 2007

Daggar said:
Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I'll refer to the original post when I say that a turbo is pretty much out of the question. For the most part, these RV motors are "entombed" and a pain in the arse to access and modify. Running the all the piping and extra "crap" for a turbo would be prohibitive.

As far as WOT throttle goes, my thought was to run one of the systems that was activated by the TPS operated window switch. Well, that and a manual activation switch and perhaps even one more window switch that ensures that there is no spray below 3000 rpm (depending on where the cam feels comfortable).

My thought was that once the manual activated switch was thrown, that nitrous would be activated via. TPS signal anywhere from 3/4 to WOT. That way, the spray would activate even if the cruise control were on (so long as the manual activation switch were on).

The primary concern of course, is whether a motor would take a relatively small shot of nitrous for a moderate period of time while chugging up the side of a steep hill.

Compression on this motor is at or below 9.0 to 1. It's an RV... it's setup pretty much the same way the tow truck, BBF motors were setup.

If it were up to me and I were made of money then sure... turbos, built 460s, and a flux capaciter would all be great options. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit into the model of being an optional and occational power adder. As mentioned before, it's not often that this thing would be used... we're looking for a solution for ONLY those occational steep climbs. Any other time, the motor is adequate.

This is what concerns me. Any idea how much the RV weighs?
Having a 460 floored going up a hill is adding tremendous force to "all" drive train parts. adding anything over a 50 shot is gonna cause drive shaft snapping torque compared to driving on level ground. I also agree with your concern about tranny heat! Dag's I just think more people would be doing it if it were a proven method.

Daggar · Nov 21, 2007

No idea what the thing weighs but could probably find out easily enough. If a 50 shot will add 20 MPH to the hill climb then we're in there!

GTOreturns · Nov 21, 2007

Daggar said:
No idea what the thing weighs but could probably find out easily enough. If a 50 shot will add 20 MPH to the hill climb then we're in there!

Seems like something they would do in a Mad Max movie!

Daggar · Nov 21, 2007

...and he's a bloody Aussie! If he can do it, I can.

460 ci. Ford in an RV Wanna run nitrous

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