5.0 vs LS1

Pokageek · Jun 26, 2009

Come on, whats wrong with you TQ guys!? I thought everyone drove around the street at 4000rpm all the time?

I mean, that's why I bought my v8 instead of a s2000 you know, so I can revv it to 6000+ and launch it on drag radials at every light to get into my power band!!

Of course, I do a burnout 1st at every single light to heat up my tires so they stick on WOT and Nitrous because God forbid anyone ever pass my high revving falic symbol!

And I certaintly drive around in traffic with the RPM's 4000 and up fer sure - constantly - just so I can show everyone my V8 is FAST FAST FAST!!!! Doesn't everybody do that? I love all the gas and rubber I burn and the constant loudness of the engine! It's a great 8:30-5 car!!

rock4451 · Jun 26, 2009

rofl....

my car isnt that fast but i know i still torch 'em at every light, it means a lot to me to show the driver of a geo prism that my car has balls compared to his

revhead347 · Jun 26, 2009

Well, basically I have enough torque that unless it's in 4th gear, if I put the throttle down the tires spin. If I am in 4th gear, and I put the throttle down, it's above 3000rpms almost immediately.

Kurt

Stopsign32v · Jun 26, 2009

Like I said, you don't understand unless you have a fast car. Which from what I have seen no one has except revhead.

Stopsign32v · Jun 26, 2009

Gearbanger 101 said:
My torque hits hard and heavy almost instantly If I want it to and continues to carry all the way to red line.

So you make peak torque all the way to red line? Wait.............if you want it to.

?????????????

Stopsign32v · Jun 26, 2009

rock4451 said:
rofl....
my car isnt that fast but i know i still torch 'em at every light, it means a lot to me to show the driver of a geo prism that my car has balls compared to his

You're cool. I bet all 257rwhp out of your car is a chore to keep on the road. Roast the tires at ANY speed!

95Vert383AOD · Jun 26, 2009

All those extra engine rotations just suck more gas

Then again i do have some pretty good car based conversations at gas stations.

Pokageek · Jun 26, 2009

Stopsign32v said:
You're cool. I bet all 257rwhp out of your car is a chore to keep on the road. Roast the tires at ANY speed!

Stopsign32v · Jun 26, 2009

Pokageek said:

Hey, little man shouldn't dish it out if he can't take it back.

Gearbanger 101 · Jun 26, 2009

Stopsign32v said:
So you make peak torque all the way to red line? Wait.............if you want it to.

?????????????

Reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits, is it?

I said nothing about making peak torque all the way to redline if I want to.

I'll break it down for you. I control how fast, or how violent my torque comes on based on how hard I plant my right foot. Its there when I want/need it and isn't RPM, gear ratio, or exhaust pressure dependant like a centrifugal, or turbo and I certainly don't need to downshift 2-gears to feel it.

At WOT, my engine is putting out about 430lbs/ft at the crank by 2,000RPM where it continues to increase to a peek of 465lbs/ft by about 3,800RPM. At this point the horsepower has been and continues to climb strait as an arrow until the two meet at a peek 5250RMP.....all while the torque figure remains above 420lbs/ft until said point. The torque starts to drop off abruptly from there and the horsepower carries until about 5,500RPM. This is all accomplished with a very small 90ci blower. It provides an intensely gratifying sensation and makes my nearly 4,200lb (with me in it) Luxobarge feel as nimble as a car nearly 1,500lbs lighter. I can loaf along at just off idle if I want to, with no one being the wiser, or blow the tires off at 70km/hr coming out of high gear and make my Eaton scream for mercy. I do all this will maintaining perfect idle, drivability and street manners and while knocking down 25mpg.

I’m limited at this point only by the breathing capability of my 3rd Generation Eaton M90S. Its quite frankly a very small blower for this application and the reason my torque and horspower drop off so quickly at red line. It would be comparable to an A-Trim or a Novi1000 as far as capability is concerned. Were I to have upgraded to an MPX case, or a larger MP112 or Screw Type compressor unit the numbers would be more impressive still.

But in any case, it still makes for a very potent street car.

More clear now? And while we're at it....why are you wound so tight all the time? You'll have to accept that opinions are going to differ and you're isn't always going to be taken as gospel all the time, you know?

Adam95GT · Jun 27, 2009

Pokageek said:
Come on, whats wrong with you TQ guys!? I thought everyone drove around the street at 4000rpm all the time?

I mean, that's why I bought my v8 instead of a s2000 you know, so I can revv it to 6000+ and launch it on drag radials at every light to get into my power band!!

Of course, I do a burnout 1st at every single light to heat up my tires so they stick on WOT and Nitrous because God forbid anyone ever pass my high revving falic symbol!

And I certaintly drive around in traffic with the RPM's 4000 and up fer sure - constantly - just so I can show everyone my V8 is FAST FAST FAST!!!! Doesn't everybody do that? I love all the gas and rubber I burn and the constant loudness of the engine! It's a great 8:30-5 car!!

Keith you are my hero:SNSign:

BlackVert · Jun 27, 2009

revhead347 said:
This is actually totally incorrect. Torque is actually a meaningless number in determining acceleration. The saying Torque = ET, HP = mph is a myth. The myth comes from the fact that cars with higher peak torque numbers generally generate more average power. So a car with 300rwhp and 400rwftlb will remain closer to peak power throughout the rpm band. While a car making 300rwhp, and 200rwftlb doesn't have much power until it approaches that peak rpm. From a mathematical standpoint, power is the only value that is of importance. Power = Work/Time. The Work to move a car of a given weight 1/4 mile doesn't change. By the relation above, you can see how Power is value you have to change in order to change the time.

Also, I'm not saying low end torque is of no importance, just that torque below 3000 rpms is of no importance. Power = torque x rpm. So yeah, just like I said above, having lots of low end torque facilitated by a bad ass big cube motor is important to get that average power value up. But in the real world, just about every race engine stays well above 3000 rpms for the entire race. So why would I care what the torque is at 3000 rpms when I launch at 6000, and the car stays above 4500rpms for the whole race.

Kurt

um, i'm not following your argument.

power is defined to be torque*rpm/5252. one can't measure power, one measures torque and then calculates the power based on the rpm when the torque was measured. so mathematically, the higher the torque at whatever rpm you care to look at, the higher the power. isn't it obvious that power is 100% dependent on torque? so how can you say that power is the value that is important and say torque is meaningless? when in reality, torque is the ONLY number that matters, whether you are talking about acceleration, power or et.

i guess what you are really trying to say is that YOU personally don't care about the torque below 3000 rpm, because you are rarely below that because you race at the track. and that is fine by me. we clearly want different things from our cars.

i am (and have been all along) coming from the other perspective ... i never go to the track, i always cruise around town. i always launch from idle and rarely go above 4000 rpm. a high revving bottle fed monster is not even close to what i want from my car.

and now for something completely different ...

want massive low rpm torque?

Leno?s Tank Car Gets Twin Turbos - Popular Mechanics

810hp at 2800rpm and 1560 torque at 2400rpm

and it is now twin turboed ...

Yellow2002GT · Jun 27, 2009

PTW ratio, is the key to winning races, HP is great to brag about on the dyno, and TQ is king if you can get it to the ground..........a well ballanced car with all 3 is what is needed.....You can make any car fast.......the LS1 is ok in stock form but add in some H/C/I and they are nasty........the 5.0 was great for its day but the 4.6 is a much more efficient engine.....the new 5.0 modular engine is rumored to have 402hp/398tq from the factory....but we shall see...that is equivelent to the LS2 engine.....when the aftermarket catches up with that engine H/C/I it shouldn't be hard to get it to compete with the LS7......thats why ford went the blower route in most cases......I for one am more impressed with a badass N/A build over a blower.....but that is just me....

"ED"

nmcgrawj · Jun 29, 2009

Yellow2002GT said:
PTW ratio, is the key to winning races, HP is great to brag about on the dyno, and TQ is king if you can get it to the ground..........a well ballanced car with all 3 is what is needed.....You can make any car fast.......the LS1 is ok in stock form but add in some H/C/I and they are nasty........the 5.0 was great for its day but the 4.6 is a much more efficient engine.....the new 5.0 modular engine is rumored to have 402hp/398tq from the factory....but we shall see...that is equivelent to the LS2 engine.....when the aftermarket catches up with that engine H/C/I it shouldn't be hard to get it to compete with the LS7......thats why ford went the blower route in most cases......I for one am more impressed with a badass N/A build over a blower.....but that is just me....

"ED"

Now you may be able to teach me something when it comes to this, but the 4.6 modulars (including the 5.0) never really responded that well to h/c/i....atleast in comparison to the LS-series and how they respond. Has this changed since the 3Valve came out? Do you really think outside of a blower/turbo that there is a lot of power to be made?

What does a cam swap on the 05+ GT's result in?

Pokageek · Jun 29, 2009

I also think 5.0 mustangs are the meanest sounding cars. 4.6's are neck and neck too. My Z28 sounded pretty cool too but I originally chose mustang cuz the sound.

nmcgrawj · Jun 29, 2009

LS1 H/C/Stockish intake

Stock exhaust vs. open cut out

rock4451 · Jun 29, 2009

Stopsign32v said:
You're cool. I bet all 257rwhp out of your car is a chore to keep on the road. Roast the tires at ANY speed!

haha i never once claimed my car was a speed demon, because there is a such thing as a cruiser. you've tried to pick an argument with every comment in this thread. you think because you have a fast car that it proves that you know your ****? give me a break. you've obviously no idea what i've driven before my 87 daily driver cruiser...

and you still look like just as much of an idiot as you did a page ago

rock4451 · Jun 29, 2009

Stopsign32v said:
Hey, little man shouldn't dish it out if he can't take it back.

yes your car would obviously obliterate mine in a race. but little man? little as in my engine? yes. but i would beg to differ on the man part. i'd bet the bank that i'd be the one callin you little man not trying to be tough...just watch what you say before you talk without knowing for sure...

Pokageek · Jun 30, 2009

rock4451 said:
yes your car would obviously obliterate mine in a race. but little man? little as in my engine? yes. but i would beg to differ on the man part. i'd bet the bank that i'd be the one callin you little man not trying to be tough...just watch what you say before you talk without knowing for sure...

I just realized you had a notchback. NICE. I have always wanted one of those. I have seen many weighed under 3000# too. That's a 500-700# weight advantage on me and good for .5 -.7 10ths at the track or 40-70HP on motor. So if you are at 260 or whatever rwhp, that brings you right up to stock LS1 before mods. I wouldn't call that slow at all and a car to be proud of. Let the other peeps drive themselves crazy chasing numbers as there will always be a faster car. It comes down to what YOU like. Its way faster than most cars, slower than others. What are we supposed to do have the fastest car on the planet? Where does it end? :SNSign:

nmcgrawj · Jun 30, 2009

holy e-thuggin in here now LOL

5.0 vs LS1

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