5spd auto

SVTdriver · Jan 3, 2004

RiceEating5.0 said:
The 400hp/400lb tq was in reference to the new GT. I was hoping the 5spd in it would hold up up under such power somewhat reliably. As for my car, you don't need near that much power to break the T-5.

Ok but the new GT is 500 hp and it has a different transmission than the mustang. And actually I would think you made the arguement yourself. Why GM can do the 6 speed and large engine. The mustang doesn't have another car that can really help develope engines and trannys. Let's be real. The vette had the t-56 before the camaro ever did. From what I have seen all Gm has done is transplant outdated vette parts into new camaros. Which if it comes back. Will probably start up all over again. And you'll have to pardon me for doubting. But rumors of it's return are far from fact. And considering GM's attitude for the car in it's last incarnation. I'm not overly hopeful

66Satellite · Jan 3, 2004

SVTdriver said:
From what I have seen all Gm has done is transplant outdated vette parts into new camaros.

I'm not a GM fan but you gotta admit that's a pretty good way to go--about the only thing I like about the Vette is the drivetrain. Sure helped them bang out the GTO quickly. Too bad it couldn't look better.

SVTdriver · Jan 3, 2004

66Satellite said:
I'm not a GM fan but you gotta admit that's a pretty good way to go--about the only thing I like about the Vette is the drivetrain. Sure helped them bang out the GTO quickly. Too bad it couldn't look better.

True and if we had an answer to a vette (not mustang based). Then the mustang might be farther along. And yes the GTO is an ugly turd. It's just to bad GM looked at the camaro has a stepchild of the corvette. They only gave it redesigns every 10 years. My hope is they won't treat the GTO that way.

GaPonyFarm · Jan 3, 2004

RiceEating5.0 said:
The 400hp/400lb tq was in reference to the new GT. I was hoping the 5spd in it would hold up up under such power somewhat reliably.

The one BIG thing we had them beat as far as hardware/parts is the rear end. The ford 8.8" is a really good unit where as the GM 10 bolt is a pos from what i've heard.

Anytime you mod the engine for that much additional power, you have to assume you'll have to stabilize the rest of the drivetrain. Ford installs a 300hp rated tranny into a 300hp car... no problem. Make it 400 hp and you should expect to harden, or in your case replace, the tranny.

The 8.8" is really good compared to what? If you put 400hp to any Mustang with the stock 28 spline axles, you're going be walking home, sooner rather than later. Everybody seems to know they must upgrade axles and gears, why do people think the tranny should handle anything you want to throw at it?

Click to expand...

awalbert88 · Jan 3, 2004

351CJ said:
There is an additional cost. With any change in engine, transmission, or even a weight change, Ford has have to have it EPA emission and milage tested & certified.

There is also the cost of maintaining spare parts inventory for 10 years (which is one of the reasons why service parts cost so much).

This is why you won't see any Mustang model with a bunch of engine & transmission options.

That's why it's an option that costs extra money. Besides which, fuel economy would be better with the 6-speed. I don't think the emission/etc testing is going to be that big a deal. What's so hard about offering a $1500 transmission (or hell, even make it $2000 like on the GTO)? It's not nearly as big a deal as a different engine or rear end. Pass along the testing and certification costs to the person buying the upgraded transmission.

RiceEating5.0 · Jan 3, 2004

GaPonyFarm said:
Anytime you mod the engine for that much additional power, you have to assume you'll have to stabilize the rest of the drivetrain. Ford installs a 300hp rated tranny into a 300hp car... no problem. Make it 400 hp and you should expect to harden, or in your case replace, the tranny.

Stabilize and completely swap out are two different things in my book. I'll use my car as an example. IMO Stabilizing would be me rebuilding the T-5 with slightly stronger parts..... but that would only take me so far. Same with the other mustang 5spds. I get your point, but you're not getting mine.

Why did they overengineer the Cobra? They could have gone with a much simpler and easier setup that wasn't as overengineered, but they still went the extra 9 yards making sure it was an excellent platform. I realize a huge chunk of it has to do with price, but it has been proven that a tranny like the T56 can be had in an affordable car.The T56 is rated at something like 450lb-ft of Tq, yet camaro's and such only make 340 or so.

Like i said earlier, its a performance car so expect it be run hard. For that reason, there should be a good cushion. Leave some room to grow on. Don't make the car so mod-unfriendly.

GaPonyFarm said:
The 8.8" is really good compared to what? If you put 400hp to any Mustang with the stock 28 spline axles, you're going be walking home, sooner rather than later. Everybody seems to know they must upgrade axles and gears, why do people think the tranny should handle anything you want to throw at it?

Axles and gears cost what??? Gears are optional btw, not a a must. A few hundred at most. Not like you need to change out the whole 8.8 rear end for a built 9" just to support 400hp.

jcp123 · Jan 3, 2004

geez guys, who cares??? be happy you have o/d at all, i'd kill for it; right now, a 5-speed seems pretty good to me. it's probably the one thing we have in new cars that i miss the most (well, maybe a/c)

kirkyg · Jan 3, 2004

I'd just like to throw in a quick comment about the transmission issue. If you look at how many 400-550 rwhp mustangs are out there with stock t-3650's or with just a performance clutch change you would not be so worried about getting a 6 speed in the new GT for the higher torque rating. Yes a 6 speed would be nice and i may eventually put one in my stang or a new one if i buy one...but i think its smart for ford to keep the 5 speed in the mustang. You can always get a bolt-in t-56 later on with very few headaches to install and it wont cost you 4k to do it either.

kirkyg

Goat1981 · Jan 5, 2004

I want an 18-speed.

yellow5.0cobra · Jan 5, 2004

Goat1981 said:
I want an 18-speed.

You need an 18wheeler my friend.

Testcase · Jan 6, 2004

RiceEating5.0 said:
S*it, just make IRS and 6spd optional at the least. That way, us buyers have that option from the factory.

You have that option in a Mustang today. It's called an '03 Cobra. I would be surprised if the '06 Cobra doesn't offer something similar.

SVTdriver · Jan 6, 2004

The problem is people don't look at the Cobra as an upgraded gt. They want Ford to build them a car personalized just for themselves. And it better not raise the price very much. Instead of having to let the aftermarket do it.

63_Fairlane · Jan 9, 2004

GaPonyFarm said:
RiceEating5.0 said:

The 400hp/400lb tq was in reference to the new GT. I was hoping the 5spd in it would hold up up under such power somewhat reliably.

The one BIG thing we had them beat as far as hardware/parts is the rear end. The ford 8.8" is a really good unit where as the GM 10 bolt is a pos from what i've heard.

Anytime you mod the engine for that much additional power, you have to assume you'll have to stabilize the rest of the drivetrain. Ford installs a 300hp rated tranny into a 300hp car... no problem. Make it 400 hp and you should expect to harden, or in your case replace, the tranny.

The 8.8" is really good compared to what? If you put 400hp to any Mustang with the stock 28 spline axles, you're going be walking home, sooner rather than later. Everybody seems to know they must upgrade axles and gears, why do people think the tranny should handle anything you want to throw at it?

Click to expand...

The 8.8 is definately better than the 10 Bolt that GM put under the Fbodys. Unless the car is pushing over 350HP, these don'e have a lot of problems. A track car with slicks is another deal.

For comparison, my roomy at Clemson had a 94 Z28 convertible automatic and his rear died at about 90k miles. Believe me that car was a pampered bouleward cruiser. All it saw was highway miles, no track time at all. He has an Explorer and a Camry now, need I say more.

Click to expand...

stangbear427 · Jan 10, 2004

This ...is insane. Since this is obviously a bitching thread, where people bitch, bitch about other people who bitch, and bitch about bitching, I feel the need to take one for the cause since I've been pissed about this for years:

RiceEating5.0 said:
GM has put the T56 in camaros since 93 and that proves that it can be had in an affordable package. Again, how expensive is the T56 relative to a 5spd auto?

God, that seems like such a simple concept, doesn't it?

SN95_XB331 said:
...the extra gears keep you in the sweet spot, but again, you're still shifting more.

I must be missing something. If we didn't like shifting, wouldn't we just buy the automatic? There are barely any NA cars made which have an average HP that is even close to it's peak HP. Therefore, the more time you can spend in the "sweet spot" the faster the car will be, even after wasting 1/10th of a second on another shift.

RiceEating5.0 said:
...I guess a 5spd was acceptable in the fox and Sn95 cars, but a 2005+??? ... Its about keeping up with the times. I was hoping they'd fix a lot of that with the 05.

Yeah, back when the only price/performance competitor with that kind of technology was one of the two F-bodies, we could just write it off as Ford was "a little" slow and behind the times. Things are quite a bit different now, like my list below.

Ron Jeremy said:
Here we go again. If you want to buy a 6 speed manual go and buy a Corvette. There is no way in hell that the price of the new 2005+ Mustang GT will be reasonable and affordable if you whiners in here keep asking for a 6 speed. The 6 speed will bring the Mustang into a different price category and the car will cost at least $5K to $10K more than it does now. What Ford is offerring in the new 2005+ Mustang GT is ENOUGH. The newer 4.6L engine and its 300HP is enough. If you start asking for more this car will be unaffordable to many people in here. Be realistic and stop asking for things like a 6 speed manual, 5.0L, 5.4L, IRS, and other BS. If Ford puts all this stuff into the Mustang it will end up costing over $40K-$45K grand if not more than that. All that I ask for is for you dreamers out there who have no clue about cost and affordability to stop asking for too much. If you want more be prepared to pay a LOT LOT more. The Mustang is supposed to be an AFFORDABLE car for everybody. It's the ONLY muscle car that's left which is still built that is still affordable. Don't let the Mustang become as expensive as the Corvette all because you want it to have whatever the Corvette has. It's stupid if you do.

Who said anything about Corvette's? But since you brought it up, the Corvette has been a purpose built sports car since the C3, and it was a Vette who gave the 6spd it's "serious sports car" status symbol rep. *Almost* none of these cheesy little crappers below should be taken seriously in the sports car world, yet they have them? WTF?! You don't think we should bitch? The only reason that there is still a Mustang to bitch about at all is because when Ford decided to kill the Fox platform and build what became the (dead, loser, import powered) Probe with a running horse on it, all the stang enthusiasts freaked like king baby bitches. If nobody bitches, then nothing happens. How the hell are they supposed to know what to do? For example, the reason the new GT will have a live rear axle not IRS has nothing to do with cost, because if you read anything about it it has been engineered to have IRS and the money was already spent. Ford interviewed Ford fans, and more of them wanted a live rear than IRS so that's what it has. If enough people whine about the same old 5 speed, something may happen.
My gripe? The old F-bodies were just the beginning, now this all adds insult to injury. I compiled this list this morning, all are 2004 models, none are limited production, all prices are list price (not base price) for these exact models that come standard with a six speed manual transmission. All are either at, around, below, or waaayyy below the proposed price of a new Mustang GT. Almost none if them have anywhere near the 300HP the new stang has, which is necessary to overcome the drag coefficient to even use a sixth gear- hence, almost none of them are as justified in having it. But they do- and we don't. That's BS Ford, wake up and look around. Sure, the new Cobra will have IRS, and a 6spd. Ford said so. But if that is all they have to set it apart from the GT and justify the increase in price, or enhance it's "top of the line" status, then there is a lot more wrong then this whole bitchfest of a thread implies. There are quite a few more than the ones I've listed here, but you should get the gist. If you aren't as embarrassed about this as I am, I don't know what to tell you:
Audi A4 Avant Wagon $33,940
Chrysler Crossfire $33,620
Audi TT $33,250
BMW 330 $33,200
Honda S2000 $32,800
Saab 9-3 Aero $32,685
Pontiac GTO $31,795
Subaru WRX Impreza STI $31,120
BMW Z4 $30,370
Infiniti G35 sedan $29,850
Audi A4 3.0 Quattro $29,409
Nissan Maxima $27,050
Mazda RX-8 $26,680
Acura TSX $26,490
Nissan 350Z $26,370
Toyota MR2 Spyder $26,130
Mercedes Benz C230 $25,300
Volkswagon Beetle Turbo S $23,850
Volkswagon Jetta GLI VR6 $22,950
Toyota Celica GT-S $22,750
Volkswagon GTI VR6 $22,070
Hyundai Tiburon GT $20,938
Mini Cooper S $19,449
Toyota Matrix XRS $18,750
Nissan Sentra SE-R spec V $17,300
Pontiac Vibe $17,165

kirkyg · Jan 10, 2004

stangbear, I dont mean to be rude but just take a load off man. Ford is gonna put in what they can to make the car affordable. The mustang would be a failure too if they jacked the price way up 3-5k more than its going to sell for like the ls1. Then what happens...mustang sales plummet and ford is forced to remove the product from their line up. I'm sure that is what would really please you right? lol.

kirkyg

stangbear427 · Jan 10, 2004

kirkyg said:
stangbear, I dont mean to be rude but just take a load off man. Ford is gonna put in what they can to make the car affordable. The mustang would be a failure too if they jacked the price way up 3-5k more than its going to sell for like the ls1. Then what happens...mustang sales plummet and ford is forced to remove the product from their line up. I'm sure that is what would really please you right? lol.

kirkyg

Actually, the '03 Cobra only cost a few thousand more than a fully loaded '03 GT. A few thousand is our cost for just the tranny swap, but somehow they still managed to intigrate IRS, the T56, an Eaton blower, and a complete engine rebuild- not to mention the upgrades to the suspension and appearance. You can't tell me that it cost Ford more money to put in the T-56 than any of those other upgrades- so what gives? The Terminator may well be the steal of the new millenium, but it proves what they can do without upping the price.

kirkyg · Jan 10, 2004

a few thousand more? The lowest i've EVER heard of a cobra being sold (03 with supercharger) is 29,000. I bought my premium GT for 19,615. Thats 10,000 difference...enough said.

It will cost more for ford to purchase the t-56...thats why it will cost the customer more than twice that at retail.

kirkyg

stangbear427 · Jan 10, 2004

I just went shopping with my dad for his GT this past summer. Sticker prices were all over $25k for '03 GT's. Every single one. The highest one was a fully loaded '04 GT, $29k. The sticker price on the one owner '01 GT he ended up buying at the dealer was almost $19k. I know Connecticut is a long way from Texas, and it's one of the three most expensive states in the country, but I'm shocked that you could buy a brand new GT under $20k. If that were the case here, every Ford dealer would be sold out. There were new Mach 1's with sticker prices of $31k and '03 Cobra's were $34k. We were wishing he had $34k, but alas, couldn't even afford a new GT for a few thousand less.

kirkyg · Jan 10, 2004

I'm not talking about sticker prices...im talking about what you can buy the cars for...you cannot possibly be reasonably comparing what you can actually get a 03 cobra for around 30k even to the sticker price of a GT...your comparing apples to oranges and you know it. There is about a 10k difference street price of those two vehicles PERIOD...and for good reason. The cobra is a badass car.

There's no 6 speed in the Gt...i doubt there ever will be so GET OVER IT.

kirkyg

tylers65 · Jan 10, 2004

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