65 mustang 5 speed tremec?

[zombie]

Couple questions for anyone with experience in this:

I am planning on running a lot of hp and I want to shift gears again...so the auto is out. I looked into swapping out my auto for a tremec tko 600 and read something on the internet that scared the hell out of me. Do I really have to raise the entire trany tunnel up 2 inches? In addition to not really making any sense to me, this scares me to death.

Has anyone ever had success doing this swap in a 65?

I would LOVE to have a T56 viper spec but if a tremec tko wont fit, I can't imagine one of these will.

thanks

 

[Cobra ssc]

From what I have read, tunnel modifications are necessary to get the correct angle. I have not tried it personally, but since I have a MII front setup I believe it would make a difference. I have a T5 now, but I plan on sepping up to a Richmond 6-speed when I blow up the T5. I believe that the Richmond requires less modification than the Tremec. I have had all three transmissions and liked the Richmond the most, but that is just my preference.

 

[zombie]

when you say "less modifications" what exactly do you mean?

I actually might be able to get hooked up on a rich 6 spd for cheap...real cheap. guy owes me money

why exactly do you like the Richmond the best?

thanks for the reply...I need opinions bad. only want to do this once

 

[coolblue65]

A Tremec will fit with no mods, I along with one of our moderators has been running them for years with no issues. It is a very tight fit, as the case is significantly larger then a T-5. I have never measured but supposedly you can't get the 'correct' driveline angles unless you cut the tunnel and raise it up a bit more. Again, been running for years and driving the car hard with no apparant issues do to a (possibly) incorrect driveline angle.

 

[BarnStang]

You should do some research on this issue. Read through the thread below and do a search. Take in all the information before you make a decision that affects such a large mechanical system on your car. Here is a recent thread on this that is related to what you are asking. http://forums.stangnet.com/756138-estimate-cost-changing-5-speed.html

 

[zombie]

wow good thread. thanks a lot

 

[mtbdoc]

My '66 'vert will have a TKO 600 in it as well. My engine is a bit lower (we're playing w/ various mounting positions in conjunction w/ the MII front) so that will help the angle.

 

[SadbutTrue]

My '66 'vert will have a TKO 600 in it as well. My engine is a bit lower (we're playing w/ various mounting positions in conjunction w/ the MII front) so that will help the angle.

Actually, I think lowering the engine makes the angle worse doesn't it (unless i misunderstand the 'pinion angle' thing)? Dropping the engine drops the nose/front end of the trans, which will raise the rear, which will make the angle from there to the differential steeper. Which i imagine can't be good.

Again, I could be misunderstanding the angles thing... but in a recent thread where I was considering dropping the engine people did chime in and said it would make the angle worse...

 

[BarnStang]

I can't see how, assuming a bone stock drivetrain, adding the larger trans would push the tail housing down (behind the motor mount) and tilt the radiater fan up (in front of the motor mounts. If you lower the whole drive train via the motor mounts in a verticle plane say three inches (for example), you should then have gained clearance on top and should now be able to push the tail housing up, correcting (regaining) the angle lost when the larger trans was introduced into the drivetrain.

 

[SadbutTrue]

I can't see how, assuming a bone stock drivetrain, adding the larger trans would push the tail housing down (behind the motor mount) and tilt the radiater fan up (in front of the motor mounts. If you lower the whole drive train via the motor mounts in a verticle plane say three inches (for example), you should then have gained clearance on top and should now be able to push the tail housing up, correcting (regaining) the angle lost when the larger trans was introduced into the drivetrain.

Not sure if that was a response to me, but I was looking at it as follows:

If you drop the engine but the transmission's mount point remains the same, the front of the trans is gonna dip and its rear is gonna move up. Which means a steeper angle to the rear. Which is worse for driveline vibration, wear, etc.

If you lowered the engine and the transmission together, then yes, the driveline angle should drop, but they would remain in the same plane and the radiator wouldn't drop (not relative to the engine, anyway... itd stay in the same plane as it started).

I don't know if the Tremec's output is in the same position relative to the input and its mounts as the T-5 (it could be exactly the same, but it could also be a little different... someone who knows both could chime in on that). I basically assume that regardless of whatever height/width the transmissions are, they have the same relative input/output positions... which might be a foolish assumption without having ever seen them side by side.

 

[mdjay]

A little lowering of the engine helps the angle. TCP and RM versions help out with this.

The cross support for the trans mount needs to be either trimmed or moved back. Then the trans has to be shimmed up to the top of the tunnel.

You should be good to go from there. However in the swap, you will find everything that is suppose to bolt in, will require modification. I mean everything. But the tunnel itself, doesn't need to be cut. A little trim for the shifter as well.

http://www.mustangdepot.com/graphics/tunnel-mod1.jpg

 

[SadbutTrue]

A little lowering of the engine helps the angle. TCP and RM versions help out with this.

How would it help the angle though? I could see you saying it might not 'hurt' it too much, but dropping the engine while maintaining the same tranny mount location will raise the output end of the transmission... which has to make the driveline angle steeper (which is bad, i thought), right?

 

[mdjay]

How would it help the angle though? I could see you saying it might not 'hurt' it too much, but dropping the engine while maintaining the same tranny mount location will raise the output end of the transmission... which has to make the driveline angle steeper (which is bad, i thought), right?

You're right about the angle raising the rear of the trans, but that's exactly what you are trying to do. The trans is much bigger then what usually goes in there. So it will not let you bring it up in the back high enough to shoot it straight at the rear end like the orig 4 speed or c4. So you have too steep of an angle if you don't lift the back of the trans up (pointing toward the ground). This requires some sort of mods on a 65-66 car but you don't really have to cut the tunnel itself. I would imagine that mtbdoc will have a heck of a time getting his exhaust through there with the cross support in the way: on that vert

 

[mdjay]

The picture I displayed shows that we trimmed the tunnel support for the crossmember and replaced it with flat stock. This allowed us to get the trans high enough to not get any vibration at high speeds.

 

[BarnStang]

Exactly, (sorry, I haven't mastered the quote like other have yet...), if you left the stock trans mount in place with the non-stock trans you would improve the driveline angle that was reduced by ading the larger trans. I was not looking at it from that point of view. If you left the STOCK trans in place, then yes, you would be making the driveline angle worse by lowering the engine and leaving the STOCK trans mount and crossmember in place. Sadbut true, you have the concept correctly.
mdjay, I do exactly what you describe for T-5 installs in 65-68 Mustangs. I cannot get the driveline angle right with a bigger trans without shimming the rear end. THe angle meter tells the story every time. THere are a few ways to do it. As along as the angles work out, thats all that matters.

 

[mtaqua]

Astroperformance.com - Your Manual Drivetrain Specialist

did some research on TKO/T5. Most everyone had bad things to say about stock T-5s, a found a few complaints on TKOs and G-force T-5s. I couldn't find anyone that complained about the A-5. I have one on order right now, but it will probably be at least a year before it sees the street. They are rated at 650hp/525ftlbs.