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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
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87' 5.0 Need Help

  • Thread starter Thread starter Adamo141
  • Start date Start date Jul 8, 2015
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Adamo141

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#21
  • Jul 18, 2015
  • #21
I have managed to fix my surging idle. The "bucking" is still an issue. I have recently found a few articles on other forums in which people had similar issues. For some it was found to be an issue with fuel delivery. I am not so sure that is my issue. Others found it to be the butterfly on their throttle body. Specifically the 70mm BBK TB which I have installed. On the stock TB there is a breather hole on the butterfly to increase the amount of airflow at a closed position. I have also found other brands have their butterfly set at 10 degrees or so to allow more air. Now I know that the IAC is supposed to adjust airflow, but some people have said by either drilling a hole in the butterfly to increase airflow, or adjusting the butterfly to not completely close has fixed two issues. 1. The gas pedal is tough to press at idle (when butterfly is closed) but when car is off it is easy to press. The theory is that the butterfly being completely closed creates a vacuum which is felt in the gas pedal. 2. When driving without giving it gas the car bucks ( mine is intermittent) Although it would make sense that there is a decrease in airflow would cause this

What are your thoughts? And no I do not want to drill a hole in my TB butterfly
 
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Adamo141

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Jul 19, 2015
#22
  • Jul 19, 2015
  • #22
False alarm, Friday night my car was idling as smooth as can be, I parked it and never had a chance to drive it yesterday. Today I started her up and low and behold she was running worse than before. I rechecked my TPS which was 0.99 on friday. Today it was 0.95. I checked my timing which I had set at 14 on friday and today it was less than 10.

I unplugged my IAC and spout and the car idled smooth at around 650-700 RPM. When I plugged the two back in my RPM shot up to 1400. I shut the car off and restarted it, my idle was steady around 1000 but surging.
 
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Timisawesomeish

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Jul 20, 2015
#23
  • Jul 20, 2015
  • #23
Sounds like a vacuum lleak or unmetered air. Test your mass air flow.

Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using Tapatalk
 
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Adamo141

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Jul 8, 2015
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Jul 20, 2015
#24
  • Jul 20, 2015
  • #24
Timisawesomeish said:
Sounds like a vacuum lleak or unmetered air. Test your mass air flow.

Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I have searched and searched for vacuum leaks with no luck, even replaced my pcv. I messed around with my salt and pepper shakers today and it seems my surging idle is stemming from them, I will test them on Wednesday. As for the bucking I replaced my fuel filter since the car sat 3 years with the old one. And the bucking seems worse, maybe plugged injectors?

Also I have speed density not maf
 

jrichker

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  • Jul 21, 2015
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Vacuum leaks will play havoc with a speed density engine, since it uses vacuum to help calculate fuel flow. As vacuum varies, so does fuel flow. The variations in fuel flow cause variations in engine speed, which causes more variations in vacuum. It is a dog chasing its tail circle, that never gets better, it only gets worse.

How much vacuum is then engine developing at idle? You should see 16-18 inches at 650-725 RPM and 18-21 inches at 1200 RPM.

Engine running codes?
Do a cylinder balance test and you can get the engine running codes and check for weak and non functional cylinders at the same time.


Cylinder balance test: use this to find dead or weak cylinders:

Revised 25 March 2012 to add necessity allowing the KOEO tests to finish before starting the engine and the need for a properly functioning IAB/IAC to run the cylinder balance test.

The computer has a cylinder balance test that helps locate cylinders with low power output. You’ll need to dump the codes out of the computer and make sure that you have the A/C off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission in neutral. Fail to do this and you can’t do the engine running dump codes test that allows you to do the cylinder balance test.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, have the clutch depressed to the floor, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.


Here's how to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.





If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and drivability problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10




Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see Equus Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.


Cylinder balance test

If you have idle or IAC/IAB problems and the engine will not idle on its own without mechanically adjusting the base idle speed above 625-750 RPM, this test will fail with random cylinders pointed out every time it runs. The IAC/IAB must be capable of controlling the engine speed to run in the 1400-1600 RPM range. Playing with the base idle speed by adjusting it upwards will not work, the computer has to be able to control the engine speed using the IAC/IAB.

Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Let it finish the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) code dump. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. Remember to keep the clutch pedal (5 speed) depressed to the floor during the test. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure


Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.

How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent/loan. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.

With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open with a plastic screwdriver handle between the throttle butterfly and the throttle housing. Crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 PSI. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.

I generally use a big screwdriver handle stuck in the TB between the butterfly and the TB to prop the throttle open. The plastic is soft enough that it won't damage anything and won't get sucked down the intake either.

A battery charger (not the trickle type) is a good thing to have if you haven't driven the car lately or if you have any doubts about the battery's health. Connect it up while you are cranking the engine and it will help keep the starter cranking at a consistent speed from the first cylinder tested to the last cylinder.
 
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Adamo141

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Jul 8, 2015
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Mass
Jul 22, 2015
#26
  • Jul 22, 2015
  • #26
Replaced fuel filter, cleaned up my salt and pepper shakers and this morning my car idled steady and didn't buck, we will see if it lasts,

Vacuum gauge read 20 on the tree at 700Rpm
 
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