Fuel 89 GT Fuel tank; ID this part please

[CtotheJ]

You did replace the fuel filter, and clean out/rebuild the injectors right? As nasty as the fuel pump bracket looks, I would remove the fuel rail, clean it and the fuel rail regulator, and replace the hose that connects the two sides

Yeah, the inside of the tank was disgusting orange sludge. I ended up replacing the fuel tank and everything that touches it, the fuel and air filters, and spark plugs and wires. I'm currently in the process of removing the injectors so I can try to clean them with brake cleaner by hooking each one up to my battery to pulse them manually. I'm just taking a while because I'm a noob at car repair, so I've been watching every video I can find to help me feel more comfortable with removing the upper air intake. I'm probably just worrying too much, the fuel tank was pretty easy.

I'm hoping my issue with the no start is that the injectors are just clogged. If the car sits for 15 minutes or so, the first time I crank it, it will start for a second or two and die. Repeated attempts to start it again immediately always just crank with no start (I've also tried feathering gas pedal as well as WOT while cranking). If I wait another 15 minutes and crank, it will fire up for a second again. My theory is that only a tiny bit of fuel is able to make it through the injectors, so as it sits and relieves the pressure built up it lets a bit of fuel into the cylinder...just enough to let it fire up briefly.
I tried to test my fuel pressure but I didn't have any teflon tape, so the cheap gauge I bought just leaked everywhere. It seemed like a lot of fuel was squirting out though, so I figured I was getting good fuel pressure, at least at the schrader valve.

 

[General karthief]

You know what happens when an assumption is made?
Even a few lbs of pressure seems like a lot at the schrader valve. The electronics on these cars are old but still need to be diagnosed with precision.
I would agree with the injector cleaning but skipping a step based on an assumption and you chance wasting a lot of time and money.
Just the random thoughts of someone with an idiot light.

 

[CtotheJ]

You know what happens when an assumption is made?
Even a few lbs of pressure seems like a lot at the schrader valve. The electronics on these cars are old but still need to be diagnosed with precision.
I would agree with the injector cleaning but skipping a step based on an assumption and you chance wasting a lot of time and money.
Just the random thoughts of someone with an idiot light.

I'm still just replacing all the stuff I had already planned on replacing.
If it were an electrical issue wouldn't the results be consistent and not change based on whether I wait the 15 minutes between start attempts?

 

[mrobins26]

Yeah, the inside of the tank was disgusting orange sludge. I ended up replacing the fuel tank and everything that touches it, the fuel and air filters, and spark plugs and wires. I'm currently in the process of removing the injectors so I can try to clean them with brake cleaner by hooking each one up to my battery to pulse them manually. I'm just taking a while because I'm a noob at car repair, so I've been watching every video I can find to help me feel more comfortable with removing the upper air intake. I'm probably just worrying too much, the fuel tank was pretty easy.

I'm hoping my issue with the no start is that the injectors are just clogged. If the car sits for 15 minutes or so, the first time I crank it, it will start for a second or two and die. Repeated attempts to start it again immediately always just crank with no start (I've also tried feathering gas pedal as well as WOT while cranking). If I wait another 15 minutes and crank, it will fire up for a second again. My theory is that only a tiny bit of fuel is able to make it through the injectors, so as it sits and relieves the pressure built up it lets a bit of fuel into the cylinder...just enough to let it fire up briefly.
I tried to test my fuel pressure but I didn't have any teflon tape, so the cheap gauge I bought just leaked everywhere. It seemed like a lot of fuel was squirting out though, so I figured I was getting good fuel pressure, at least at the schrader valve.

LMR sells the die cut foam pads that go on top of the tank (unless you already reinstalled). I cleaned out my injectors the same way. Sea foam works great for this, but i'm sure there are 10 other products that will also work. Replace the regulator on the fuel rail. It is cheap, and if I recall, just 3 screws and a gasket.

 

[mrobins26]

I almost forgot. Mine did the same thing after sitting for a long time and even though it was in much better condition, it did the same thing you describe.
Mine turned out to be two issues that were very hard to detect with just a visual inspection. 1) A broken vacuum hose that connects to the underside of the upper intake manifold and 2) a leaking gasket between the throttle body spacer and the intake manifold. There is coolant that circulates through the spacer between the TB and intake. Hard to keep running with a fuel/air/coolant mixture, but it would start up and run until enough leaked in. Good luck

 

[CtotheJ]

You know what happens when an assumption is made?
Even a few lbs of pressure seems like a lot at the schrader valve. The electronics on these cars are old but still need to be diagnosed with precision.
I would agree with the injector cleaning but skipping a step based on an assumption and you chance wasting a lot of time and money.
Just the random thoughts of someone with an idiot light.

I got my fuel pressure gauge all fixed up and tried again. At the schrader valve:

Fuel pressure when I just cycle the key to run so the fuel pump kicks on: shoots up to 40psi then smoothly decreases to around 20psi and then the decrease in pressure slows way down.
The fuel pressure when I try to crank it stays at 40psi, then once I stopped cranking it stayed in mid 30's for several seconds then slowly went down to 20psi. Now it's decreasing even slower as I let it sit.

Does that description sound like fuel delivery is working correctly, at least to the fuel rail?

 

[Blown88GT]

So I received the fuel pump replacement, but I don't think it's going to work. The bend isn't the same angle so it's not going to reach the gas in the bottom of the tank unless I just don't understand how it works.
Can anyone confirm? Should I send this back?

Who did you purchase this from?

 

[Blown88GT]

I got my fuel pressure gauge all fixed up and tried again. At the schrader valve:

1. Fuel pressure when I just cycle the key to run so the fuel pump kicks on: shoots up to 40psi then smoothly decreases to around 20psi and then the decrease in pressure slows way down.
2. The fuel pressure when I try to crank it stays at 40psi, then once I stopped cranking it stayed in mid 30's for several seconds then slowly went down to 20psi.
3. Now it's decreasing even slower as I let it sit.

Does that description sound like fuel delivery is working correctly, at least to the fuel rail?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes. How long does it take to get to 0?

 

[CtotheJ]

Who did you purchase this from?

Rockauto. Replacement came and was fine. It must have been dropped from a pretty good height to bend that severely in the box.

3. Yes. How long does it take to get to 0?

When I went to check after about 15 minutes of sitting it was at 5 and I unhooked it then.

Thanks for the confirmation!

At the moment I'm stuck trying to get the stupid little hex bolts out of the upper intake cover plate. I got one out but rounded out two others that are stuck pretty good. The last hex bolt is stuck as well but I didn't mess it up yet. Sprayed them with WD-40 a bit ago...waiting. Next steps:

1. Apply direct heat to them? I don't want to melt any rubber or anything that may be underneath.
2. Slowly chisel out a cut through the head of the bolt so that I can just use a screwdriver?

I'm leaning toward trying #2 first. I think there's less of a chance to mess anything else up that way.

As always thanks for all the help and suggestions!

 

[Wayne Waldrep]

If it's a stock intake they don't have hex head bolts. They are star heads. At least every one of them I've had were.

 

[General karthief]

Drill em out.
You're gonna replace it with an explorer intake anyway, someday that is.
one intake I did I drilled em, silicone'd it back on and cut cut heads off some countersunk allen head screws and glued them in place.

 

[CtotheJ]

If it's a stock intake they don't have hex head bolts. They are star heads. At least every one of them I've had were.

Yeah stock intake...that explains my failure then.

Drill em out.
You're gonna replace it with an explorer intake anyway, someday that is.
one intake I did I drilled em, silicone'd it back on and cut cut heads off some countersunk allen head screws and glued them in place.

Alright thanks...I'll give that a shot first thing tomorrow.

 

[General karthief]

I am running for 'da king of hokeyass repairs' award.
some even work!

 

[CtotheJ]

Drill em out.
You're gonna replace it with an explorer intake anyway, someday that is.
one intake I did I drilled em, silicone'd it back on and cut cut heads off some countersunk allen head screws and glued them in place.

I was able to get 3 of them out this morning with the correct star bit. Only had to drill one out but it worked great!

I got the upper intake off, unbolted the fuel rail to get at all the injectors, then cleaned them all by forcing brake cleaner through while pulsing them with the battery. Most of them started with a small stream then blew out into a nice fan shape. One was not pulsing at first, but as I kept trying after about a dozen attempts it finally started clicking for me, then worked fine after that. There was a thin layer of dark brown sludge on the bottom of each injector as well that wiped away easy with brake cleaner.

Now I'm just taking a break from trying to get the last bolt at the back of the upper intake started enough so I can get a socket on it. What a pain in the ass...or fingers to be exact!

 

[Blown88GT]

Rockauto. Replacement came and was fine. It must have been dropped from a pretty good height to bend that severely in the box.


When I went to check after about 15 minutes of sitting it was at 5 and I unhooked it then.

Thanks for the confirmation!

At the moment I'm stuck trying to get the stupid little hex bolts out of the upper intake cover plate. I got one out but rounded out two others that are stuck pretty good. The last hex bolt is stuck as well but I didn't mess it up yet. Sprayed them with WD-40 a bit ago...waiting. Next steps:

1. Apply direct heat to them? I don't want to melt any rubber or anything that may be underneath.
2. Slowly chisel out a cut through the head of the bolt so that I can just use a screwdriver?

I'm leaning toward trying #2 first. I think there's less of a chance to mess anything else up that way.

As always thanks for all the help and suggestions!

Rock Auto is great about defective or damaged returns. They gave me full refund for u-joints that didn't fit properly & were damaged in the process.
I believe cover plate is #10 Torx. WD40 won't work, PB Blaster will.
As long as pressure doesn't go to 0 psi immediately, you're okay.

 

[CtotheJ]

So, I'm just making more work for myself.

I got everything bolted back in place and turned the key, but fuel starting leaking out of injector 1.
Unbolted everything once more, reseated the injector into the rail and started bolting everything back up, but this time I decided to shear off 2 of the bolts for the fuel rail. They must have been pretty weak already because they just twisted in two like they were made out of plastic.

So now I've got to find an easy-out that's small enough to drill those out, and hope the threads aren't jacked up.

***Long sigh***

 

[Wayne Waldrep]

I decided to shear off 2 of the bolts for the fuel rail. They must have been pretty weak already because they just twisted in two like they were made out of plastic.

Yep. You aren't the first person to do that. I always hate tightening those.

 

[CtotheJ]

And my misfortune continues...damn USPS. You know they had to feel the metal bending as they did this...

 

[Wayne Waldrep]

Don't worry...that will buff out.

 

[General karthief]

I be sending that back!