Car came with factory air but has not had it installed in years. Has anybody switched over to one of the modern air compressor A/C kits from Mustangs Unlimited or should I just re-intall my old system?
A/C question
- Thread starter gunnerdog
- Start date
thehueypilot
Active Member
It depends on if you are keeping the car original or not. I have the complete aftermarket kit and it uses R134, but has never cooled as well as a factory unit. Of course that could be because R12 cools better than R134, but the cost of R12 is terrible. Good luck!
valley82
Member
If the original system is in good working order - Has not been exposed to rain/water the original system can be evacuated and charged with "Hotshot" made by ICOR. It cools more effectively than R-12 does and WAAAY better than R-134a ( 134a loses capacity as the ambient temp goes up) so in AZ. If your climate is anything like Pheonix 134 is a bad bet. Also to use your original system the oil in the compressor will have to be changed to synthetic oil to use 134.
In the Commercial Refrigeration Industry we use Hotshot to re-charge older R-12 systems, it is a drop-in replacement for R-12, the only thing that changes is that you use less refrigerant when you charge it.
Hope this helps.
hueypilot - your system can be evacuated of 134 and charged with Hotshot also - if charged correctly it will increase the cooling capacity by 10-15%.
Out here in california not a whole lot of auto air guys use Hotshot, cause the manual does not say anything about it but the Refrigeration Contractors/ Refrigeration Supply Houses should be able to hook you up with someone to charge your systems.
In the Commercial Refrigeration Industry we use Hotshot to re-charge older R-12 systems, it is a drop-in replacement for R-12, the only thing that changes is that you use less refrigerant when you charge it.
Hope this helps.
hueypilot - your system can be evacuated of 134 and charged with Hotshot also - if charged correctly it will increase the cooling capacity by 10-15%.
Out here in california not a whole lot of auto air guys use Hotshot, cause the manual does not say anything about it but the Refrigeration Contractors/ Refrigeration Supply Houses should be able to hook you up with someone to charge your systems.
valley82
Member
If you have an EPA cert, you can get it at any of the local supply houses...Allied Refrigeration, United Refrigeration, RSD, Johnstone Supply.
The downside is that it only comes in a 30lb. Drum, that I've seen.
But the stuff is the ticket to make a 134 system perform as good or better than an R12 system.
The downside is that it only comes in a 30lb. Drum, that I've seen.
But the stuff is the ticket to make a 134 system perform as good or better than an R12 system.
valley82
Member
Yes, but DONOT charge it by weight - charge by pressure or better yet pressure and superheat. In smaller 134a comercial refrigerators in hot kitchens with cooling problems, we switch them over to hotshot and the problems are no more due to the fact that hotshot doesn't fall off nearly as bad as 134 does - performance wise. The same is true for our service trucks. BUT if the vehicle is under factory warranty the dealer will have a fit due to the fact that the manual says R-134A.
If you can find a Refrig. contractor in your area that uses hotshot they will be able to charge your system for you using the method above.
If you can find a Refrig. contractor in your area that uses hotshot they will be able to charge your system for you using the method above.
valley82
Member
These forums have already been a huge help to me and i'm only in the bodywork phase of my restomod...many more questions to be asked...so here is something I know for a fact will help out some of you. I'm an AC & Refrigeration contractor so this is one small part of the puzzle where i can give a little bit of advise.
Here is a link to ICOR (hotshot)
www.icorinternational.com/hotshot_opening.html#
then click on "mobile information"
There claim to fame is 8% more efficient than R-12 and 10-15% more efficient than R-134a trust me that is HUGE.
I also found out that Hotshot is sold in 1lb. cans so if you have an EPA cert you could buy smaller amounts...Like I said just be sure to charge it by pressure and/or pressure and superheat.
Hope this helps...This place rocks.
Here is a link to ICOR (hotshot)
www.icorinternational.com/hotshot_opening.html#
then click on "mobile information"
There claim to fame is 8% more efficient than R-12 and 10-15% more efficient than R-134a trust me that is HUGE.
I also found out that Hotshot is sold in 1lb. cans so if you have an EPA cert you could buy smaller amounts...Like I said just be sure to charge it by pressure and/or pressure and superheat.
Hope this helps...This place rocks.
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
So Hotshot is only available to those with an EPA cert?
I've been exploring alternatives to R-12 since both of my cars originally used it and it costs so much. 134A has also doubled in price since last year, so I"ve been examining potential refrigerants that either cost less or cost the same and work better.
I've been exploring alternatives to R-12 since both of my cars originally used it and it costs so much. 134A has also doubled in price since last year, so I"ve been examining potential refrigerants that either cost less or cost the same and work better.
valley82
Member
Yup, any "refrigerant" can only be purchased by someone having an EPA certificate. Which is nothing more than a test given at a HVAC/R wholesaler (at least that is how it works in cali) based on a booklet received at the same outlet. Hotshot is less expensive than R-134a and way cheaper than R-12 and it provides more cooling than either. pretty much the same as the hand gun certificate here in CA. pay the fee, read the book and take the test. The whole 134 trainwreck started in 1991 when R-12 started being taxed by $1.00 per pound per 6 months until it became priced out of the market. 134 was ...for some retarded reason adopted as the new low pressure refrigerant (Hotshot and FR-12 are much better at transfering heat). R-22 (in your household a/c unit) is being replaced by R-410 (another retarded replacement) in 2015. R-410 runs at roughly twice the pressures as R-22, 500 PSI is within the normal range of operating pressures...Which is fine if you don't mind having a bomb in your back yard. Anyways 134 was adopted by all of the auto manufacturers and some of the commercial equipment makers others switched to R-22. We are now required to recover any refirgerant in a system and pay to have it disposed of instead of offgassing it to the atmosphere as we did pre 1991. Kind of makes you wonder why R-12 had to be banned instead of regulated??? But then again i'm just a stupid guy that makes things cold, not a politician or a government employee!! Rambling, rage building ... shutting up....
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
Well, I'm pretty good at taking "Cram-Test-Forget" type exams, so maybe I should get a cert. 
Except......why do auto parts stores sell 134a to anyone?
I've heard conflicting reports about why R-12 was phased out, from environmental to political to business reasons. About 15 years ago, my dad had a couple small cans of R-12 we thought would fun to shoot with pellet guns. Yeah, regretting that now.
Maybe I should just use R-290......
Except......why do auto parts stores sell 134a to anyone?I've heard conflicting reports about why R-12 was phased out, from environmental to political to business reasons. About 15 years ago, my dad had a couple small cans of R-12 we thought would fun to shoot with pellet guns. Yeah, regretting that now.
Maybe I should just use R-290......
valley82
Member
Well...by law if they get caught they are in deep ....
$15,000.00 fine per sale.
The EPA laws say that no one can purchase Refrigerant of any kind without an EPA cert. Even Residential forced air A/C condensing units can only be purchased by EPA cert. guys cause they have R-22 in them and they have to be connected to the indoor section "by an EPA certed. professional" It's kinda retarded, but so are alot of other things the government does. The TEST is a no brainer...just pay the money $60.00 i think, study the booklet, DONT TRY TO USE LOGIC, answer the questions as stated in the booklet and then you can legally purchase the gas for your cars. BY the way you can take a partial test for auto A/C only. the other three parts of the test are for larger, residential and commercial systems. I'm tellin ya R-414 (hotshot) will wake up your R-134 auto a/c system the same way a turbo wakes up a diesel motor!!! The refrigerant moves heat from inside the car to outside the car way more efficiently than 134 and is way cheaper than R-12.
$15,000.00 fine per sale.
The EPA laws say that no one can purchase Refrigerant of any kind without an EPA cert. Even Residential forced air A/C condensing units can only be purchased by EPA cert. guys cause they have R-22 in them and they have to be connected to the indoor section "by an EPA certed. professional" It's kinda retarded, but so are alot of other things the government does. The TEST is a no brainer...just pay the money $60.00 i think, study the booklet, DONT TRY TO USE LOGIC, answer the questions as stated in the booklet and then you can legally purchase the gas for your cars. BY the way you can take a partial test for auto A/C only. the other three parts of the test are for larger, residential and commercial systems. I'm tellin ya R-414 (hotshot) will wake up your R-134 auto a/c system the same way a turbo wakes up a diesel motor!!! The refrigerant moves heat from inside the car to outside the car way more efficiently than 134 and is way cheaper than R-12.
valley82
Member
The official reason that R-12 was phased out starting in 1991, is that it is a gas that when released into the atmosphere, destroys o-zone leading to GLOBAL WARMING. Now in 2015, R-22 in most Household and Commercial A/C systems and quite a few Commercial Refrigeration systems, is being phased out. The EPA has put in place regulations forcing everyone to recover the refrigerant instead of just dumping the gas into the air as was done pre 1991, back in the day if we had to repair a line on a system we dumped the gas to the atmosphere if it was 1 lb. or 500lbs, no recovery machines existed. Now even before we recovered the gas it is stated that we contributed 8% to the whole global warming deal...it would have made more sense to put the recovery regs in place and keep the three common refrigerants in the game (R-12, R-22, R-502), which by the way all were cheap and worked very well. Now there is well over 20 refrigerants in the game and none of them are as cheap as R-12 used to be...pre Govenment 1.00 tax increase per pound per six months. R-12 used to cost .50 cents per pound back in the 80's now it is $500.00 to $700.00 per 30 lb. drum, all Tax. But then again i'm just a stupid A/C and Refrigeration Contractor so what do I know about saving the planet and besides saving the environmant has become a HUGE bussiness... BIG money.
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
valley82 said:
I think that had more to do with than anything. Suddenly the national HVAC industry is required to buy expensive recovery equipment, Dupont will make a fortune on 134a like they did with Freon, Freon prices will skyrocket, and it makes a small group of tree-huggers happy.
Hmm, much like the dyno-type smog tests. Who drives 15 or 25mph enough to wreck L.A.'s air? I could go on and on, but I briefly forgot this isn't my thread.
I guess the trick now is finding a wholesaler around here so that I can take the test. By the way, does the cert expire or need renewing/retesting?
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