A Different High Idle issue - need a hand

Hey Gents,

I searched around on this and other forums, but I havent found anything that matches what Im going though.

My 1989 GT is pretty much stock with the exceptions in my sig. The car has 151,xxx miles. The following started happening a week ago and since shes a daily driver, it happens everyday.

Everytime I start the car, she jumps to 2500+ RPM and after about a miniute drops down to 1000RPM and stays there.

When I'm driving on the high way, the idle stays at 2500rpm and it almost feels like I have crusie control. I can force the idle down by shifting into 3rd and slow down the car until the idle is around 1000rpm.

As per the searches I read I know I should look for codes but the check engine light is not on, I will be cleaning the IAC after i finish typing this and I already cleaned the MAF.

One interesting thread mentioned the ECT, but I dont have the same issues that person did.

Does anyone know what may be causing this?
 
The CEL need not be illuminated (or ever have been illuminated) in order for codes to be stored. Check them.

Running through the idle surge checklist is a good idea. Many of the things in that list will apply to your situation.

Do check the ECT calibration. And look for vac leaks.
 
The CEL need not be illuminated (or ever have been illuminated) in order for codes to be stored. Check them.

Running through the idle surge checklist is a good idea. Many of the things in that list will apply to your situation.

Do check the ECT calibration. And look for vac leaks.

I cleaned the IAC and it seems to be better....the idle starts between 1000 - 1500 then drops to 900 pretty quickly.... but there's a bit of a surge i never noticed before. it goes from 900 to about 1200 every 30 seconds or so.

I'll pull the codes but how? I have a ODBII scanner...and I dont know where to connect to in these cars.

thanks for your feedback!
 
LOL thanks guys. yeah i kinda figured the ports might be different!

After starting the car from an overnight stay, the rpms jump up to 2000rpm then under 10 secs it drops down to 1000rpm.

I tried the quick test of unplugging the IAC while the motor was running and the car shut off immediately all 3 times. i thought the motor would stay on but at a very low rpm...almost stall? Does the fact the motors shuts off indicate something else?


I'll run the CEL light test based on joe07's link

thanks gents!
 
With the way I set my idle, I can unplug the IAC on a hot engine [with no accessories turned on] and it will not stall. My IAC's DC during a hot, unloaded idle is 2-8% however (so the IAC is not doing much).

If someone has their base idle set lower, they will be relying on the IAC a lot more. In any case, if you disconnect the IAC on a colder motor (below 170* or so), it should really struggle or shut off.

A degrading TPS wiper can cause issues like this.
 
See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems. Everything you need to find and fix idle problems is in there.

The first two posts contain all the updates to the fixes. At last count there were 24 possible causes and fixes for surging idle/stall problems. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions.

The how to dump the computer trouble codes with only a paper clip is there too.
 
Concentrate on fixing the code 23 first to cure your idle problems.


Code 12 -Idle Air Bypass motor not controlling idle properly (generally idle too low) - IAB dirty or not working. Take it off and clean it thoroughly with throttle body cleaner. Clean the electrical contacts with non flammable brake parts cleaner at the same time.


Code 23 - Throttle sensor out of range or throttle set too high –

Revised 02-Jul-2009 to update TPS setting procedure.

TPS needs to be reset to below 1.2 volts at idle.

Setting the TPS voltage

You'll need a Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job.

Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

Always use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage.

Do the test with the ignition switch in the Run position without the engine running.

Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.
Setting the TPS: you'll need a good Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job. Set the TPS voltage at .5- 1.1 range. Because of the variables involved with the tolerances of both computer and DVM, I would shoot for somewhere between .6 and 1.0 volts. Unless you have a Fluke or other high grade DVM, the second digit past the decimal point on cheap DVM’s is probably fantasy.

Since the computer zeros out the TPS voltage every time it powers up, playing with the settings isn't an effective aid to performance or drivability. The main purpose of checking the TPS is to make sure it isn't way out of range and causing problems.

The Orange/White wire is the VREF 5 volts from the computer. You use the Dark Green/Lt green wire (TPS signal) and the Black/White wire (TPS ground) to set the TPS. Use a pair of safety pins to probe the TPS connector from the rear of the connector. You may find it a little difficult to make a good connection, but keep trying. Put the safety pins in the Dark Green/Lt green wire and Black/White wire. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Run position but the engine isn't running.

Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

The TPS is a variable resistor, must like the volume control knob on a cheap radio. We have all heard them crackle and pop when the volume is adjusted. The TPS sensor has the same problem: wear on the resistor element makes places that create electrical noise. This electrical noise confuses the computer, because it expects to see a smooth increase or decrease as the throttle is opened or closed.

TPS testing: most of the time a failed TPS will set code 23 or 63, but not always. Use either an analog meter or a DVM with an analog bar graph and connect the leads as instructed above. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position, but do not start the engine. Note the voltage with the throttle closed. Slowly open the throttle and watch the voltage increase smoothly, slowly close the throttle and watch the voltage decrease smoothly. If the voltage jumps around and isn’t smooth, the TPS has some worn places in the resistor element. When the throttle is closed, make sure that the voltage is the same as what it was when you started. If it varies more than 10%, the TPS is suspect of being worn in the idle range of its travel.

See Ford Fuel Injection Wiring Harnesses for more wiring help & 10 pin connector diagrams

Code 33 - Insufficient EGR flow detected.
Look for vacuum leaks, cracked vacuum lines, failed EGR vacuum regulator. Check to see if you have 10” of vacuum at the EGR vacuum connection coming from the intake manifold. Look for electrical signal at the vacuum regulator solenoid valves located on the rear of the passenger side wheel well. Using a test light across the electrical connector, it should flicker as the electrical signal flickers. Remember that the computer does not source any power, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.
Check for resistance between the brown/lt green wire on the EGR sensor and pin 27 on the computer: you should have less than 1.5 ohm.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif


EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.

connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connnect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.

Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).


apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum

if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.

if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.

if engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
if not the EVR has failed

EGR test jig
attachment.php


The operation of the EGR vacuum regulator can be checked by using a test light applied across the wiring connector. Jumper the computer into self test mode and turn the key on but do not start the engine. You will hear all the actuators (including the EVR vacuum regulator) cycle. Watch for the light to flicker: that means the computer has signaled the EGR vacuum regulator successfully.


Codes 44 & 94 - AIR system inoperative - Air Injection. Check vacuum lines for leaks, & cracks.

Revised 28-Oct-2009 to correct code definitions and operation.

Code 44 RH side air not functioning.
Code 94 LH side air not functioning.

The computer uses the change in the O2 sensor readings to detect operation of the Thermactor control valves. When the dump valve opens, it reduces the O2 readings in the exhaust system. Then it closes the dump valve and the O2 readings increase. By toggling the dump valve (TAB), the computer tests for the 44/94 codes.

Failure mode is usually due to a clogged air crossover tube, where one or both sides of the tube clog with carbon. The air crossover tube mounts on the back of the cylinder heads and supplies air to each of the Thermactor air passages cast into the cylinder heads. When the heads do not get the proper air delivery, they set codes 44 & 94, depending on which passage is clogged. It is possible to get both 44 & 94, which would suggest that the air pump or control valves are not working correctly, or the crossover tube is full of carbon or missing.

Testing the system:
Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect
the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump
the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve.

The next vacuum controlled valve directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or
to the catalytic converter when the engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the
vacuum controlled valve and start the engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes
from one hose to the next.

The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheel well turn the
vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire.
Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to
the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground
necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side
will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.


The computer provides the ground to complete the circuit to power the solenoid valve that turns the
vacuum on or off. The computer is located under the passenger side kick panel. Remove the kick panel &
the cover over the computer wiring connector pins. Check Pin 38 Solenoid valve #1 that provides vacuum
to the first Thermactor control valve for a switch from 12-14 volts to 1 volt or less. Do the same with pin
32 solenoid valve #2 that provides vacuum to the second Thermactor control valve. Starting the engine
with the computer jumpered to self test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle on and off. If after
doing this and you see no switching of the voltage on and off, you can start testing the wiring for shorts to
ground and broken wiring. An Ohm check to ground with the computer connector disconnected & the
solenoid valves disconnected should show open circuit between the pin 32 and ground and again on pin 38
and ground. In like manner, there should be less than 1 ohm between pin 32 and solenoid valve #2 and pin
38 & Solenoid valve #1.

If after checking the resistance of the wiring & you are sure that there are no wiring faults, start looking at the
solenoid valves. If you disconnect them, you can jumper power & ground to them to verify operation. Power &
ground supplied should turn on the vacuum flow, remove either one and the vacuum should stop flowing.

Typical resistance of the solenoid valves is in the range of 20-70 Ohms.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

See Mustang Forums at StangNet for a very nice drawing of the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) plumbing

If you have a catalytic converter H pipe, you need to fix these codes. If you don't, then don't worry about them
 
Quick update,

I picked up this the Ford Racing EFI SENSOR KIT
Details:
Includes: EGR valve, EGR position sensor, Electronic Coolant Temp sensor and air charge temp sensor

When I pulled out the aircharge temp sensor, there was a glob of carbon build up on the old sensor....never saw anything like it!

After swapping out with the FR EFI Sensor Kit, the idle is normal!... Idles smoothly around 900rpms instead of 1200 rpms. When driving the rpms lower as normal. the car overall feels great, very responsive and feels like a different car! The idle is very consistent!

But (of course there was a "but" coming) the following morning after sitting over night I cold started the car. The Idle shot up to 2300rpm am sat steady for about a 1.5 min. The idle the came back to normal and idled as smoothly as the day before. This happens every morning now that the weather is cold. After I drive around and start the car after an hour or so, it starts up fine. it just the cold starts.

The only thing left is the TPS.

I dont have a DVM to test/configure the TPS. I'm going to borrow one this weekend and see what happens.

I'll also pull codes again tomorrow evening to see what she comes back with.

jrichker, I'll follow your notes to a T for the TPS, but do you think its still the TPS at this point?
 
Hey Guys, I hope everyone had a memorable christmas and holiday.

No update since I hven't been able to get my hands on a meter. The only thing happening now is that it's starting to act like it did when I started this thread....almost back to square one.

One thing I didnt mention is that the car came with a conical filter. could that be contributing to the issue? I dont have the stock airbox...but I would love to get my hands on one.

Could the fan be blowing too cold air at it?

Please let me know
 
Sometimes people put to much oil on the K&N filter's causing the air meter sensor to become dirty and not read right.You can buy a spray on cleaner @ the auto parts store.The problem with your air filter could be the Hot air being sucked in the air meter from the hot air backwash of the radiator
 
Hey Guys,

Quick update. After researching more about "Wind Wash" with conical air filters, I ended up tracking down and buying an OE Stock Airbox. I removed the K&N Conical air filter and installed the airbox. I have to say what a difference! The car actually feels like it drives better!

One thing that still happens is that when the car is started after a cold night, the rpms gradually move up to 1800 RPM then drop to 800 rpm after about a minute.

I'm much happier now but to your point, the TPS still sounds like it needs to be adjusted.

Thanks again everyone!