Brakes ABS in a Fox - Mark Bettin

[AeroCoupe]

One of my good friends used to road race in the American Iron series and through that he met Mark Bettin who was an engineer at Ford. My understanding is Mark was one of the first if not the first to put the SN95 Mustang ABS into a Fox Mustang. When I did my install I was able to talk to Mark and he helped me through diagnosing I had a bad ABS unit. Mark did a write up on it which I was able to get form a member over on Corner Carvers but it was in html and the pictures were all over the place and the formatting was jacked up. It took a couple hours but I put it all back together and posted that I had it over on the Corral in a thread. Since then a couple of the members in there have asked me for copies and I have emailed it to them. I think this needs a permanent home and I can think of no better place than here. I will tell you like Mark told me, use at your own risk and I am by no means your technical support for this project. I can offer advise and help but realize I haven't done one of these installs in 15 years plus. The one I did in my Coupe in 2006 still works to this day and it works really well with the Cobra brakes. Here is the thread over on the Corral where I went through the install and low and behold Mustang5L5 is in there as well.

https://www.corral.net/threads/need-help-with-95-gt-abs-install-into-93-coupe.777003/

Mark was an avid cyclist and had a very tragic accident one morning years ago which took his life. I think this is a great way to pass on his knowledge and love for racing.

The one thing that is not in Mark's write-up is this diagram which I found very useful:

I mounted the ABS pump in the factory location (pulled all my stuff from an 1995 car) on my Coupe and was able to reuse the factory brake lines from the ABS pump over to the master cylinder. Just wanted to make note of that in case anyone else wanted to go that route.

I have attached Mark's write up as its a big file and that way folks can down load it.

 

[AeroCoupe]

@FastDriver - Can this be linked in your “Technical Thread/how-to Index”?

 

[FastDriver]

It's literally been years, but it looks like the powerz that be still grant me the authority to bless off on my own thread. It's done.

Thread 'Technical Thread/how-to Index'

Sep 27, 2013

Guys, if "that should be a sticky," then please reply to this thread with the link to your suggestion and why you think it should be added.

How to determine if a thread should be included:
- Does the topic address a common fox 5.0 owner's needs? / Is it a frequently asked question? / Is it frequently searched?
- Does the thread contain extremely useful information that should be highlighted?
- Is the topic thoroughly addressed in the threads already listed below? (consider adding the info to such threads, or asking a moderator to merge them)

Thanks,

- FastDriver...

• FastDriver
• fox body mustang technical index troubleshoot
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech

• 

 

[Mustang5L5]

Man, i remember that thread. I went as far as getting a 94-95 ABS pump and rear axles with tone rings and some misc ABS sensors but that's as far as I got. Always wanted to do this and missed my chance when my car was all ripped apart a couple years back. Always thought the Fox was tire-limited in the front so getting aggressive with good brakes can get sketchy. I notice a huge difference in HARD braking between my Fox and my SN95 w/ABS despite it being an outdated ABS system. In fact one of my biggest fears when driving the fox is a hard panic stop at highway speeds. Dry clean pavement is no issue, but our roads here are always filled with sand/debris/leaves and such.

 

[AeroCoupe]

It works great on mine and if you ever think about doing it I would say go for it.

 

[Prime Lord]

I'm leaning that way too. The Cobra IRS even has the sensors on it and they popped up through the floor under the back seat through factory holes in the tub. My front hubs have tone rings. So all I really need is front sensors, some wire, and the under hood stuff.

 

[Prime Lord]

Here's something that just came to mind. Are the tone rings the same tooth count on the live axle vs the IRS? I'm suddenly thinking that if I put the 95 ABS system in, that it won't understand what's coming from the sensors on the IRS.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I don't think the tooth count matters, but don't quote me on that.

Do you happen to know the tooth count on the IRS axle? I have a solid axle shaft handy with an ABS ring i could count.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I am pretty sure the 94-04 cars have a 49 tooth tone ring on the rear axles.

F4ZZ-2C189-A F4ZZ2C189A Genuine Ford Part

Ford part # F4ZZ-2C189-A F4ZZ2C189A, Base part # 2C189 at FordPartsGiant.com. Wholesale-priced and fast-delivered Ford parts Indicator Assembly.

www.fordpartsgiant.com

99-04 Cobra has a part number of F6SZ-2C189-AA for the rear and again I believe these are 49 tooth.

 

[Prime Lord]

Hrmm. I'll go count them tonight when I'm under the car. Trust but verify.

 

[Prime Lord]

Confirmed. 49 teeth on the IRS tone ring.

 

[AeroCoupe]

You should be good to run the 94-98 ABS module. I want to say the 99-04 Conra front exciter / tone rings are a different tooth count than the 94-04 GT/V6 cars but I have never confirmed that.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I counted 50 teeth on my 1994 axle I had. Now that I see it might be 49, let me go double check.

 

[Prime Lord]

Ok. So. Hear me out.

If I get a pump, mount it in the factory location, buy a complete new hardline kit for a 95 Cobra, use a 95 Cobra M/C, a stock 95 Cobra P/V.

And just send it. Its a full system that's factory spec. No guess work. No wonky junctions. No having to flare anything.

Seems like the right call to me since I'm doing things and hate money.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I would agree with one caveat. Gut your stock combination valve and install an adjustable proportioning valve. Being able to dial in the rear brakes made a difference in my car.

 

[Prime Lord]

I already did those things when I did the 2300K install. But, is there a reason not to let the ABS dial in the rear end?

 

[Prime Lord]

And if you're gutting the PV, why not just run the lines directly to the ABS pump? Eliminate fittings, etc.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I think you are missing what the ABS does. The abs does not work until it detects different wheel speeds. Then and only then it modulates the pressure to the lines to balance the wheel speed.

The proportioning changes the ratio of fluid going to the rear brakes vs the front brakes. What you are wanting is the rear brakes to lock up just before the fronts so the car stops straight. This helps with balancing the brake system.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Btw I did confirm that my 1994 GT axle has a 50 tooth wheel.

I don’t think it matters. The system is looking for signal interruption, not actual counts

 

[Prime Lord]

I think you are missing what the ABS does. The abs does not work until it detects different wheel speeds. Then and only then it modulates the pressure to the lines to balance the wheel speed.

The proportioning changes the ratio of fluid going to the rear brakes vs the front brakes. What you are wanting is the rear brakes to lock up just before the fronts so the car stops straight. This helps with balancing the brake system.

I get that. So the problem is that the rear will lock up WAY before the front without any restrictions on the single line that splits to both rear calipers. So the ABS will kick in at that point because of the rear lockup and attempt to balance the system. Is that a bad thing? And if the stock P/V will control the rear pressure as designed by Ford (yeah, I know, their engineers are high all the time) is it going to be racecar braking? No. But is it going to work as designed? I think so.