after all this time?

meanngreen94 said:

Is fair to say after all this time mod for mod a fox body still stands a better chance beating a ls1 in the 1/4 than a our sn's or even the new 05. What do you think?

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All this time and 05 mustang dont belong in same sentence yet(too new). Not a good comparrison it has a different motor and starts off with more hp then other two, but the fox and sn95 both have 5.0 , So yes i should hope a fox has a better chance.....they are afterall lighter

isnt the power to weight of your GTS to our notches comparable? notches maybe a little lighter and with a smidge more power (puter)....... you guys can stop after the race though.

Mean, the fox's don't have THAT big of an advantage when comparing a 94-95 coupe to a 93-older GT hatch. Stock versus stock, the two are very close. My dad has a 91GT and my cousin has a 94GT coupe, both are 5 speed cars. Stock versus stock, my cousin's 94GT ran a 14.8 at 93mph to my dad's 14.6 at 94mph. Now when you get into fox coupes versus Sn-95 coupes and fox coupes versus Sn-95 'verts the gap gets much larger. However, with a well thought out combo our 94-95's car pretty much rival the fox body guys (FINALLY). Heck, just look at some of the quicker guys on here... the fox body guys don't have that much on us. There are more of them and as such, there are more that are faster, but look at TMC, Allmotor95, me, and a variety of others here. We have a good bit of NA guys trapping over 110mph, and we have blower guys in the 10's and 11's with H/C/I + SC.


In the few years I've been on the 94-95 specific forums the memebers have continued to get faster and faster. The main problem IMO was that when the 94-95 came out, the fox population rejected it as being heavy and slow, and those that really wanted a fast car knew weight was the enemy and stayed with the fox cars. Plus the 94-95's were pricey in comparison back in the day to their fox kin. But fast forward to the last few years... our cars are getting older (and cheaper), they are more refined which may attrack some of the older fox owners, the chassis is a bit firmer, and less of them were beat and raced and can be found in nice condition that most of the fox body cars. Now, having said all that, look at what has happened in say the last 2-3 years. 2-3 years ago I think there was less than 5 on all the boards I went to that had cars that ran in the 12's with H/C/I. Hell, just a year ago there were some lengthy discussions here and at the corral about it being possible or not to build an 11 second NA 94-95 because no one on the boards had seen anyone do it... I now know of three and one is a fellow convertible owner!!! (Hopefully I can join them soon!!!) THAT is why I think "after all this time" we are finally starting to catch up.

As for the '05, its WAY too early to tell yet what the potential is for the car. I really wish Ford would have added some cubes to the stang for the '05 model though...

foxes don't even compare to sn95's in:
Braking, turning, or reliability(from my experience) not to mention the chicks love em

Like killer said, the differece between a fox and a 94-95 is almost nothing. I ran 14.8 stock at the track , and that was almost enought to beat almost any other "stock" fox out there. The faster end of foxes go mid 14s, but that is hardly anything. Id say the 2 tenths are made up for with the better chassis, brakes, looks, interior, sound deading ect. Not even a challenge.

Killercanary said:

Mean, the fox's don't have THAT big of an advantage when comparing a 94-95 coupe to a 93-older GT hatch. Stock versus stock, the two are very close. My dad has a 91GT and my cousin has a 94GT coupe, both are 5 speed cars. Stock versus stock, my cousin's 94GT ran a 14.8 at 93mph to my dad's 14.6 at 94mph. Now when you get into fox coupes versus Sn-95 coupes and fox coupes versus Sn-95 'verts the gap gets much larger. However, with a well thought out combo our 94-95's car pretty much rival the fox body guys (FINALLY). Heck, just look at some of the quicker guys on here... the fox body guys don't have that much on us. There are more of them and as such, there are more that are faster, but look at TMC, Allmotor95, me, and a variety of others here. We have a good bit of NA guys trapping over 110mph, and we have blower guys in the 10's and 11's with H/C/I + SC.


In the few years I've been on the 94-95 specific forums the memebers have continued to get faster and faster. The main problem IMO was that when the 94-95 came out, the fox population rejected it as being heavy and slow, and those that really wanted a fast car knew weight was the enemy and stayed with the fox cars. Plus the 94-95's were pricey in comparison back in the day to their fox kin. But fast forward to the last few years... our cars are getting older (and cheaper), they are more refined which may attrack some of the older fox owners, the chassis is a bit firmer, and less of them were beat and raced and can be found in nice condition that most of the fox body cars. Now, having said all that, look at what has happened in say the last 2-3 years. 2-3 years ago I think there was less than 5 on all the boards I went to that had cars that ran in the 12's with H/C/I. Hell, just a year ago there were some lengthy discussions here and at the corral about it being possible or not to build an 11 second NA 94-95 because no one on the boards had seen anyone do it... I now know of three and one is a fellow convertible owner!!! (Hopefully I can join them soon!!!) THAT is why I think "after all this time" we are finally starting to catch up.

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I agree with what Paul has said and want to add that the method used to tune the pcm on the fox does not work for our pcm's due to the differences between them. It is human nature to poo poo things that are different when we first encounter them and deem them as bad. Like Paul said, now that our cars have been out for a while people now know how to tune the different (bad) pcm's and that is also bringing the power up which more of us benefit from these days.

As for the '05, its WAY too early to tell yet what the potential is for the car. I really wish Ford would have added some cubes to the stang for the '05 model though...

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Having driven one I gotta say that the average mildly modded pushrod Stang is gonna show that 05 its tail lights right off the bat. The 05 is really cool and goes around corners great but it has no low end torque whatsoever. Bow Wow City

Later
Grady

I would have to agree to a point. That point ends at the SD cars.

A good bud had a 5pd. 87GT that he bought off his 'rents who had owned it since 3k miles that they bought off a close family friend. Bone stock with the air silencer still in it, just 14* and later finding out there was almost a role of paper towels in the between the filter and air box (by some little amimal). It ran a 13.9 @ 100 all damn day or about 4-5 passes.

Now I dont see many (maybe 1 or two but none in this crappy midwest weather at Gateway Int. Raceway) 94-95s out of the box that can get this. and for that matter few of the mass air foxes seem to get that. The SD cars just seemed to run better.

Now the avg. mass air fox v. the avg. 94-95, coupe v. coupe, or vert v. vert, do seem to be realy close.

Factory speed density cars always were quicker mod for mod TO A POINT. When they were modded too much they started to develope drivability problems and were difficult to tune. WHat you saw is VERY TYPICAL of a speed density car with bolt-ons. Throw H/C/I at it and the problems begin!

Killercanary said:

Factory speed density cars always were quicker mod for mod TO A POINT. When they were modded too much they started to develope drivability problems and were difficult to tune. WHat you saw is VERY TYPICAL of a speed density car with bolt-ons. Throw H/C/I at it and the problems begin!

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Right - stock for stock, SD was faster than MAF (mapping, cam and some other small differences). the real issues begin when vac is diminished on a SD set up (as MAP is critical for proper running). often a chip or conversion to MAF is the route many go when mods go through the roof (chips get to be pricey).

we ported the E7 heads, put a BBK exh. on it (equal length headers, catted H, flowmaster cat-back), swaped in a comp cams .512 lift cam (ground to that lift for his 1.7rr) that was for SD cars, TKO, and 150shot from an N.O.S dry kit. Before the H.C.exh. on the botttle he ran a 12.8 at 114 with a 2.5-.6 60ft. and after he never ran the bottle and ran a 13.5 or 13.6 with a 2.4 60ft as the rear was only one legging it by then. It ran fine as the cam was within spec. but it did have a backfire every now and then.