AL block crate 351w stroker - any issues? suppliers?

[70vert]

Hey all,
In the interests of keeping weight down for a balanced road racer style car, but still getting some monster torque around town and if it ever sees a strip, I'm trying to figure out if I can get an AL block crate 351w stroker (with Mass-Flo Fuel Injection) without paying a mint. I am partial to having a local builder do it, but the only one I can find offering it is these guys:

http://www.badasscars.com/engineprices/fordsb.html

I'm settled on the 393/408 stroker for a few reasons:

1. Great power/weight ratio without being too extreme in rod angles like a 427 351w would be
2. Great torque around town
3. Room in the engine compartment in my '70

The engine above, though, is a $20k engine, and I don't need it to be 525HP. I want something lower compression, in the 9-9.5 range, so later on if need be I could supercharge it. I also want to run on regular 91 with no detonation issues, especially if it's going to get hotter than a normal iron block. Also, streetability would be nice.

I know that the AL blocks can have cooling issues, but I don't drive it in areas or conditions where that should be an issue, and I plan to have some serious cooling - dual fan high-cfm puller behind a big AL radiator.
I know someone will say "Go 302 stroker!" but I feel like the 302s were appropriate to earlier cars, but a bigger '70 deserves something 351 or bigger, Boss 302 race-only car excluded.

Let 'er rip!

 

[SoCalCruising]

Well, if you built it yourself with new premium parts that motor would cost you around $15K, I should think. So, no you can't get it without paying a "mint". That said, I'm sure lot's of places will build it for you, but you will have to call them and discuss it with them. Try Speed-o-motive, for one.

 

[mustbereel]

Aluminum

I had Badass build my Aluminum 347. It's the 4th engine from the top in the engine pics page. I researched many places before going with Badass. You'll find just about everybody wants $15k-$20k. There is a 427 on Ebay from a "Nascar builder" with a Dart Al block and AFR Heads but it is carbed. The price is $12,999. If it's built well that's a bargain. Try RDI and Keith Craft too. For reference my engine with all accessories weighs 365#.

 

[mustangdave]

An aluminum block alone is over $4500, so no, there isn't an inexpensive way to do it.

 

[70vert]

heard of DSS, Keith Craft, CHP, Ford Racing, World Products

but never speed-o-motive before. Good link and advice, I'll check it out. Still trying to figure out, though, how $2k more on the block seems to make the full motor price rise exponentially. (going by Ford Racing's AL block pricing) The money is kind of there to do it - no kids, not married yet, so this could be the crazy expenditure, but still hard to justify.

 

[70vert]

$4,500 is FRPP's unlisted price?

An aluminum block alone is over $4500, so no, there isn't an inexpensive way to do it.

I see $3,500 for their "racing block" which is meant for sprint cars, and an unlisted price for this:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=4221

and here's the full list: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/category.asp?catID=38&catdesc=Engine%20Blocks

 

[70vert]

How's your Badass-built engine holding up, Mustbereel?

I had Badass build my Aluminum 347. It's the 4th engine from the top in the engine pics page. I researched many places before going with Badass. You'll find just about everybody wants $15k-$20k. There is a 427 on Ebay from a "Nascar builder" with a Dart Al block and AFR Heads but it is carbed. The price is $12,999. If it's built well that's a bargain. Try RDI and Keith Craft too. For reference my engine with all accessories weighs 365#.

I am kind of leaning towards these guys because they're an approved Mass-Flo builder and they're semi-local - I'm in the SF Bay Area. Yeah, that is an amazing price, but not into the 427w. Sounds too good to be true. I'll check RDI as well.
So how do you like your Badass-built engine? Hear they have a bit of a waiting list . . .

 

[mustbereel]

I am kind of leaning towards these guys because they're an approved Mass-Flo builder and they're semi-local - I'm in the SF Bay Area. Yeah, that is an amazing price, but not into the 427w. Sounds too good to be true. I'll check RDI as well.
So how do you like your Badass-built engine? Hear they have a bit of a waiting list . . .

It took me nearly a year to get my engine but I wasn't in a hurry so it was o.k. I have no complaints and the engine delivers all that was promissed. Aaron seems to know his stuff.

I had people tell me they could build an Aluminum engine but most did not have examples of what they had done in the past. Badass had some pretty interesting looking engines and his pricing was in line with what I expected. As SoCalCrusing said the parts alone will cost about $15k if done right.

The $3500 Ford Racing block is Dry sump only so watch out. A Dart block is about $5000.

Don't worry about the Al block and heat. They actually run cooler because Aluminum dissipates heat better than Iron. It is important to let the engine warm up before running it hard. Obviously if you overheat it badly you could hurt the engine but that's true for any engine. Remember most modern engines are now aluminum including the new Mustangs.

The reduction in weight up front makes a huge difference in handling and since it shifts the weight distribution to the back it actually helps with traction some too. However, it is impossible to justify the extra expense unless you are racing. Of course it's impossible to justify the money we put into these cars in the first place. Most people will probably say you'd be better off putting the extra money somewhere else. For me money wasn't an issue and I just "had to have it". I'd probably do it again. In fact I'm working on a new project with a 2003 Cobra engine and plan to swap the iron block for an aluminum block. Of course the 4.6 Al blocks are less than $1000.

 

[70vert]

Heat and the 289/302/351w engine in AL

Don't worry about the Al block and heat. They actually run cooler because Aluminum dissipates heat better than Iron. It is important to let the engine warm up before running it hard. Obviously if you overheat it badly you could hurt the engine but that's true for any engine. Remember most modern engines are now aluminum including the new Mustangs.

I'm aware that most modern performance engines are AL and that it transfers heat away better, but I also have read from a few sources that the way the 289/302/351w, and you could throw the 385 series engines in here and the 351c, are engineered for cooling can present problems if that same engine block is constructed of AL. I think the argument goes that the heat from the water outlets can be transferred to the water inlets too easily in an AL engine and that they are meant to be insulated from each other. I could be way off base here, though. I'm with you that heat radiates off an AL engine block better, for sure.

But the experience with your engine and the fact that B.A. Racing has a few under their belt is encouraging. Long wait time isn't a huge deal, just more time to save the $ and see what other options might be out there.

I'd still love for someone to chime in with a low price point from a respected source on an AL-block crate engine with a low compression. Seems everything in a prepackaged form is 9.7 or above, but of course I can call all around and get a custom quote with an AL block, which I might - just don't want to waste those guys time and mine getting 10 quotes that are all about the same, which it sounds like what we're looking at . . .

 

[SoCalCruising]

For that kind of money they can get you whatever compression you want. It's just a matter of ordering the right pistons, or if none are just right, getting a custom dish.

 

[mustbereel]

heat

I think the argument goes that the heat from the water outlets can be transferred to the water inlets too easily in an AL engine and that they are meant to be insulated from each other. . . .

Interesting. I can see that argument. Might come into play with more power or boost. My engine runs right at 180* with a big aluminum radiator and a flex fan.

 

[66forfun]

could probably afford to convert to a 4v junkyard lincoln ls or cobra for cheaper than the al pushrod motor. could you shave the same amount of weight with glass/composite body parts instead?

 

[mustbereel]

could probably afford to convert to a 4v junkyard lincoln ls or cobra for cheaper than the al pushrod motor. could you shave the same amount of weight with glass/composite body parts instead?

Maybe cheaper but weight wise not even close. My iron block 4v Cobra engine weighs 700lbs. Swapping the iron block for Al saves about 70lbs. This means the Al block 4v weighs about 250lbs more than the all Al Windsor. Fiberglass hood/fenders/valance saves about 50lbs at best. And if you do the fiberglass in addition to the Al block you're that much lighter.